Yes, we are.
I know you always do your homework.... :^)
I know you always do your homework.... :^)
The best separates between $2500-3000. Moving on from the original Rogue Sphinx Intg..
I have decided NOT to upgrade the original Rogue Sphinx integrated amp to its new version. Therefore, I would humbly ask for recommendations for the best separates in the $2500-3000 range. I would prefer the same brand pre-amp and power amp, but will consider mixed brands.
My requirements are basic: at least 150-175 RMS; a simple "quality" remote with a mute switch and smoothly calibrated volume control. Pre-amp Out ( optional) feature;. A good headphone stage; A good to VG phono stage, BUT CAN forego in favor of a good phono box.. .
I DON'T WANT OR NEED: an onboard DAC for streaming audio files ; processor loops, or subwoofer inputs and outputs HT inputs and outputs; class D amp
Because of the plethora of new pre-amps with the features I don't want, I might consider older "quality" pre-amps without the bells and whistles. However, I AM NOT interested in so called "upgraded" vintage or refurbished" crap from 20-30 years ago. I recently got burned on a refurbished and marginally upgraded turntable. My mistake. Thank you for your advice
74 responses Add your response
Al. Thank you for the response. The link you sent clearly show the back of Sphinx original integrated. I received an e-mail back from a Rogue tech named, Nick, who basically reproduced the bullet points I sent you. He indicated that the variable input ( pre-out) was used to connect a second amp or subwoofer. I emailed back to clarify and confirm whether that connection will "bypass" the Sphinx internal amp, and most importantly ,also allow the pre-amp controls to function with the outboarded amp in place. Maybe, I am just dense, but I need to confirm the use of the all the pre-amp functions when used with the outboarded amp. BTW, the Ayre V5xe is too expensive for me at $2900. I have not inquired if the seller would accept a lower offer, though only 6 days remain on his ad. But, I appreciate the heads up. The information that the ARC 100.2 not being a variation of class D amp design is good news. That may account for the rave reviews it received in a few mags, and customer testimonials. Though, you point about its an age and possible diminished sound quality is a viable concern Lastly, there was a review in Tone magazine of Van Alstine's FET Value CF Vacuum Tube Pre-amp Line stage ($1899) by one of its staff writers. The review praised it build quality and its overall sound quality, but there was some hesitation on the writer to crown it the best pre-amp in the under $2000 range. He did highly praise the built in phono as a steal at $249 ( as noted, there is a MM/MC stage for $329, both are optional). Jeff Dorgay offerd some follow up comments and felt some of the criticisms of the pre-amp's restricted soundstage was system or amp related His experience with the unit was a big soundstage with either AVA own amp, or PASS Labs, ARC, Simaudio, etc. Thanks again to all who have offered comments. |
He indicated that the variable input ( pre-out) was used to connect a second amp or subwoofer.That would be "variable output," of course, not "variable input." Also, I found that the AVA amp which I mentioned has been highly praised by member Schubert is the Synergy 450, which I see lists at $1999. He posted the following comments in this thread which you had originated about 3 years ago: Schubert 4-10-2013: Best regards, --Al |
Does the NuPrime ST-10 digital amp (150 RMS) qualify as a Class D amp, or a variant of Class D?? NuPrime bought out the former NuForce company, and redesigned the entire line of components. Some units have received good to VG reviews, the ST-10 amp in particular. However, it is a new company who knows where it will in 5 years. Thanks, Jim |
Does the NuPrime ST-10 digital amp (150 RMS) qualify as a Class D amp, or a variant of Class D??It is apparently a proprietary variant of class D. The mention in its description of a 600 kHz switching frequency, 85% output stage efficiency, and its power-to-weight ratio (150 watts per channel, weight of about 13 pounds) all point to class D or something similar. And this, from the TAS review that is linked to at the NuPrime site: Although the ST-10 is a “digital” power amplifier, it is not a standard Class D switching amplifier. According to NuPrime’s owner’s manual, “Instead of the conventional sawtooth configuration, NuPrime’s patented circuit design uses an analog-modulating signal that adds neither noise nor jitter. Rather than reverting to off-the-shelf solutions, NuPrime’s in-house advances have further unlocked the switching amp’s potential without the difficulties pure digital-switching amplifiers simply cannot avoid.” The cliché that should follow would be, of course, “Not your father’s Class D amplifier.”If you look at the first figure in this Wikipedia writeup on class D amplifiers, I would speculate based on this comment that the "triangular wave generator" shown in the figure is probably replaced in the NuPrime design by some sort of signal having less abrupt transitions between its positive-going and negative-going segments. Otherwise I’d imagine that at a conceptual level the design is generally similar to what is shown in the figure. BTW, despite the reviewer’s reference to the ST-10 as a digital power amplifier, and despite popular misconception, class D amplifiers and similar variants are not digital amplifiers. As stated in the Wikipedia writeup: The term "class D" is sometimes misunderstood as meaning a "digital" amplifier. While some class-D amps may indeed be controlled by digital circuits or include digital signal processing devices, the power stage deals with voltage and current as a function of non-quantized time. The smallest amount of noise, timing uncertainty, voltage ripple or any other non-ideality immediately results in an irreversible change of the output signal. The same errors in a digital system will only lead to incorrect results when they become so large that a signal representing a digit is distorted beyond recognition. Up to that point, non-idealities have no impact on the transmitted signal. Generally, digital signals are quantized in both amplitude and wavelength, while analog signals are quantized in one (e.g. PWM) or (usually) neither quantity.Basically, class D is an analog process. Regards, -- Al |
Hi Jim, several people have mentioned Odyssey amps and I have to agree about the quality build and sound. I have owned an odyssey candela pre-amp + Stratos amp combo for several years now. I,m assuming a similar set up used would be in the ballpark of $1,800 on the higher side. It does not accommodate a headphone jack but does have a remote that meets your requirements. A phone call to Klaus may be insightful. At 8 ohm is 150 watts but not sure at 4 ohm's. Having driven Snell floorstanders as well as 4 ohm GMA Europa monitors I've had no issues. Slightly to warm side of neutral but musical and detailed at least to me. The Candela responds to nos tubes nicely which makes tube rolling enjoyable. Hopefully this is a bit helpful. Thanks, Dave |
What about the new NuPrime ST-10 digital amp?? NuPrime bought out NuForce's, and totally redesigned their line of electronics. The one review I read in TAS about the power amp ST-10 was very strong regarding its performance. However, is this just another variation of class D amplification, possibly escaping the class D house sound... that is, bright and edgy??. I don't want to pay $1595 to find out. Thank you, Jim |
To Dave, Thank you for the heads about about the Odyssey Candela pre-amp, I will check the Odyssey website. I do need a VG phono amp equal to or better than the one that is in Rogue Sphinx hybrid integrated. I could always, but prefer not to buy a standard headphone box by project or another brand. The Bellari VP 130 is a consideration, but I have an intuition that in operation is not as good as claimed and susceptible to hum because it s one tube output stage. Thanks for the info, Jim |
To Almarg and others, I missed your e-mails about the NuPrime ST-10 amp and actually responded, but it was not posted. Something must be screwed up with AG's thread and posting system To Almarg, I got an a definite answer from Rogue HQ today about the Sphinx integrated variable output line, they call a "pre-out". If I connect a separate power amp to line 3 which is a variable output, the amp must have a input impedance of 10,000 ohms or more. The reason is this: the front panel function DO NOT go through the two tubed output stage of the Sphinx pre-amp, but through a special op-amp that allows the use of the volume and balance control, and also the phono input and CD input. The phono has it own line marked phono, so lines 1 and 2 are available for a CD player or tuner which I have I was also informed by the Rogue tech that the sound may not be quite as good through the op-amp device,, but he also claimed the op-amp is a very good device. I am not sure what that means because I know nothing about op-amps, their function, or their quality rating. However it is worth taking a shot at it whatever amp I decide. The Odyssey Stratos Plus is high on the list.. However, if the sound is equal to what I have, or only marginally better, or worse, inferior to what I have, I will then hunt for a new pre-amp. BTW, about a year ago, I replaced the two stock tubes in the Sphinx output stage with Mullard CV4003 tubes. This was based on the recommendation by a member who also had a Rogue Sphinx. The purpose was reduce some of the edge and bright tinge that is part of the sound because of Hypex Class D amp. It worked, but did not reduce all of the edginess or glare. Al, or others, your thoughts and comments on the op-amp use in the Rogue Sphinx will be appreciated. Also, a member has a BAT VK-250 SS amp for sale. He mentioned also that he used it with BAT VK-31 pre-amp, and it was the best combo to date, even though he replaced both with ARC Reference separates Both were issued in 2006 when he bought them, and he kept them for 10 years. The review on VK-250 in TAS in Nov. 2008 was politely neutral about its sound quality; I did not find any other reviews so far. I will be googling up reviews on BAT VK-31 pre-amp soon I don't know depending the pre-amp feature if the combo is worth the money, and he is going to have to come up with a very sharp quote far under $3000. to get me motivated. Thanks again, Jim . |
Hi Jim, As you may be aware op amps ("operational amplifiers") are solid state integrated circuit devices that are often looked upon with disdain by audiophiles. In part because op amp-based implementations tend to be less costly than other approaches. That disdain is justified in many cases, but certainly not always IMO. As is usual in audio, it comes down to the quality of the particular device and the particular design. As well as to the resolving power of the rest of the system. I was also informed by the Rogue tech that the sound may not be quite as good through the op-amp device, but he also claimed the op-amp is a very good device.In the absence of a basis upon which to "calibrate" this statement, my guess is that it would still be a reasonable plan to initially upgrade to a separate power amp, and consider a preamp upgrade at a later time. But obviously that’s just my guess, FWIW. The 10K minimum load recommendation, btw, is very reasonable, and most amps will meet that requirement. Best regards, -- Al |
P.S: Regarding "if I connect a separate power amp to line 3 which is a variable output ...," this still strikes me as incorrect, as well as being in conflict with statements in the manual. As can be seen in the rear panel photo I linked to earlier, line 3 is clearly marked as being an input, not an output. The variable line-level output corresponds to the pair of jacks labelled "Output - Var." Or at least it **should** correspond to those jacks, unless someone made a completely dumb mistake in the design, which I doubt, or if your unit is somehow different than what is shown in the photo and described in the manual. Best regards, -- Al |
Try to find the following Audio Refinement (designed by YBA) separates used: - Audio Refinement Pre5 (great imaging, warmish sound and a lot of inputs plus remote) - Audio Refinement Multi 2, 3 or 5 (125 wpc 8 ohms / 200 wpc 4 ohms and matches very well with the Pre5) Very musical combo that I use today and beat out a Rogue Cronus Magnum. |
I used to own the Sphinx v.1 as well. I thought it was just ok. I liked the pre section a lot more than the power section. Found a 3 year old Odyssey Stratos Extreme off ebay for $800 and a used Jolida Fusion preamp for another $800. To put it politely to me it made the Sphinx sound small lifeless and weak. Awesome combo to my ears. I also own an integrated 100wx2 tube amp using KT120 tubes. Although it has it's own set of virtues I would take the Jolida/ Odyssey combo overall any day of the week. It's smooth, fast, tonally accurate "IMO", and slams hard with no fatigue. |
((( My current speakers are Golden Ear Technology 7's, but I am
considering for the future, the new Magneplanar .7. which some members
claim sound better than the Maggie 1.7r))) I would suggest you try to listen with your Sphinx with the Magnepan .7 We have both new and prior Rogue Sphinx units working nicely with the .7s with Cardas. Best JohnnyR |
You can find very good deals on Exposure amps, 2010S2, but your looking for more power so I will suggest the 3010S3, class A preamps and mono blocks or dual channel power amps to back them up. No frills, nothing but the music. I wont say you will have to spend a lot to better them. That may or may not be true. Try to better them first. Thats where the answer will be found. |
Hi , I purchased a Rogue RP-1. I removed the JJ 12AU7's (crap), and picked up NOS Mullard, RCA black plates and Telefunken Tecktronix . The Telle's are great and for the price the RCA's are nice . The headphone out is not tube , but it is nice with quality headphones . I'm running a low powered SET, but am considering a Bryston 4BSST2, or the new one . I will have to run unbalanced , as the RP-1 , only comes that way . I have played with a Modwright KWI 200 and a Bryston . They are both high for your budget . The Bryston would make your Maggie's sing . The Rogue is mm/mc compatible too . Happy listening , Mike. |
