I need to replace my old Denon DCD 2700 I hear mainly classical music (don't need a huge bass ;-) ) I am looking for precision, precise stageimaging, high definition & warmth ... ;-)
i bought the bat cd player about two years ago. i gues we will agree to disagree. however, it is foolish to question someone's perceptions unless you are accusing me of misrepresenting what i hear.
i have no idea why you are in love with the bat cd player. you are entitled to your opinions. never question my perception. i have not questioned yours.
Dave for one: I did not get Isabella/Isabellina DAC preamp based on Srajan's review but way before that...........[if you would have read the review (beginning) carefully and bother to check my preamp upgrade path , you would have known that already]. There wasn't one instance when I bought any gear based on any review or published recommendation.
second: I enjoy tube-rolling as much as the next guy, but what the $@&# tube "A" or tube "B" got to do with "SOUNDS LIKE ANALOG" """"""""""
thirth: I am very familiar with BAT and while it is not a bad CDP , it is FAR from what you compare it to - "The Walker Proscenium Gold"
I think some of you guys are tone deaf for starters. Secondly, if you believe half the crap that's written about gear you will find yourself frustrated, wondering why that award winning kit you just bought sounds so bad. Mrtennis should check his hearing aid batteries and consider the average half life of most CDP's...the BAT has been around for a long time folks (most designs last for a year or two or else they are severely modified). Of any CDP I've owned, the BAT stands in stark relief as a superbly musical source (sans stock tubes...I use Amperex NOS). I have lived with several 6922 based pre-amps and 6H30 versions from the same manufacturer....many audiophiles have noticed years ago that the advent of the 6H30 tube circuit initiated the advent of tube gear that mo ore closely resembles SS stuff. Not everyone listens as critically or with as discriminating a set of ears...many people love the ARC Ref 3 (I had it and sold it within a year). This has been my experience...not my talking points or misguided beliefs based on industry rhetoric from gurus who's life's work is to move product for advertisers. Tell the NOS tube industry that they make little difference...What kind of bull is that? Then again, I'm silly and I should also know that power cords make no difference, nor brass cones under CDP's or IC's or speakers or cable lifts etc.. How does one take a positive comment about a CDP and tube set vs another warrant disregard? FYI, I purchased many reference CDP's over the years (including the original VK-D5 20bit). I returned to the BAT CDP because it delivers music with all it's fullness, roundness and tonal ripeness that most other CDP's can't begin to touch.
>>"The 6922 based unit is my favorite...never met a 6H30 tube I liked:)"<<
I also like these little bugger but implementation of 6DJ8/6922/7308 or whatever has little to do with this topic. Isabella/isabellina DAC uses 6922s................is that why it was awarded Blue Moon Award? I doubt it. (I also own that combo) AMR-CD 77 uses ECC81/12AT7/6072A per channel for gain, one 5687 per side in the output and dual-mono thermionic rectification via a pair of EZ80/EZ81/6CA4........................is this the golden formula???????? I doubt it again.
It is a fine ART to come up with the product that moves even the most discriminating audiophiles. Only few accomplished that.
i owned the 24 bit bat vk d5. it was the biggest mistake that i ever made. i went to a friend's house and listened to the player in his stereo system. we looked at each other and agreed the player does not sound like it has a tube in it. call bat and ask them about it.
i think the cartridge is the most crital link in an analog system. it is possible to pick a t/t, arm and cartridge that has an un balanced frequency response. in many instances, digital front ends will be preferable to such an analog system.
mariusz is correct. it is necessary to compare "a" turntable, arm and cartridge to a cd player or dac/transport, rather than generalize about the sound of "vinyl".
There's a reason the BAT VK-D5 has been around for a decade or so...it makes music. The 6922 based unit is my favorite...never met a 6H30 tube I liked:)
I have met Lloyd W. personaly and chick chat about this and that. Cool guy and complete fanatic when it comes to Vinyl & and tweaks.
Yes, his tables are very, very close to analog nirvana. However, non of the mentioned CDP can compare to Walker rig. (with appropriate arm/cart that is)
At the end I must say that digital came a long way since its early days.
Personaly......without reaching into absurd price points, my earlier posted favorite is mighty good and suits my own taste like a glove.
There is also recently introduced DAC which was reviewed and awarded by Ebaen Srajan last month - for the most "Analogue density DAC.
I am not questioning your ears or motives........but generalizing/describing analog characteristics in one sentence is tough even for the "vinyl" junky. There is simply to many flavors ........ same goes for digital reproduction. Some DAC/transports and CDPs can indeed be very seductive and resembles analog qualities. Those you mentioned too. The list of those players/DACs is very, very short.
........but the question stands - which TT(s) setup are you reffering to while describing analog ....... in general. (which those CDPs remind you of) Again - just curious
Mrjstark, you are trying to pin a mosquito to the wall. I am refering to the general qualities of vinyl vs digital...harmonics are complete, fleshed out and relaxed without the compression and two dimensionality of most SS players.
>>Cary 306, ARC CD7/8 or the VK-D5 24bit...closer to vinyl it don't get!<< it is not really that close unless you place them on the same rack. Then again, it depends on the vinyl rig .......doesn't it? It would be helpful if you stated, which analog setup are you referring to. Just curious.
I agree that the CD-7 is one of the best, if not THE best CDP you can get for under $10k. Before getting the CD-7, I have evaluated in MY system the following players:
Out of all of the pplayers listed, CD-7 was clearly the best on redbook CD format (I do not care about SACD).
Recently, I borrowed the new dCS Puccini for a week and that was the first CDP that bettered CD-7. The only problem I have with dCS is that it costs $20k ... over double of what CD-7 costs.
Vandersteenguy, I own a CD7 and also think very highly of it. Besides the Scarlatti combo, did you compare to the 1 box Puccini? It seems used prices on the CD7 have already dropped to the 5K level....perhaps in anticipation for the CD8.
If you want a digital player, well that's one thing, if you are in fact looking for a music player then I would suggest the McIntosh MCD500 is the best of the bunch.
Audio Research CD7 is going to give you EVERYTHING you stated you were looking for. It gives and exceptional warmth to digital due to it being a tube based unit. I have not heard the new CD8 but it is supposed to be significantly better than the CD7 which is close to as good as it gets. The only thing I have heard that outperforms the REF CD7 from ARC is a DCS Scarlatti which is a mere $68,000. I would wait for teh CD8 which is 10K when i comes out or find a used CD7 for about half that. My system is comprised of a vandersteen 3A Sigs, Audioquest Volcano (DBL Bi-wire), ARC SP16L, ARC VS110, and a Rotel Rcd-1072 (can't afford the ones I am reccomending but I drool everytime I hear it at my dealer's) to give you an idea of my taste and where I am speaking from.
"What dac/transport does MF use? Me Lord I rest my case ...lol"
Reviewers gear is the cure for the weak, insecure minds.IMO
There is no such a thing as "The perfect component". And it definitely doesn't mean it will work with ones' system synergistically and fit the personal preferences criteria.
That is why auditioning gear for yourself and in your own system is the ONLY way to determine if the particular component is in fact the one for YOU.
Teddy Bear, I have only compared the Gamut CD3 extensively with the Eyre, and there was no real comparison. I lived with both for weeks, and the CD3 was clearly superior. Thats why I put it forward here, as others have mentioned the Eyre. One thing I do know is that it needs lots of running in to lose that slightly lean/metal sound out the box, and interconnects are important. I dont know the Cary. Is it in the same price range? The one I would be most interested in doing an A/B comparison with is the Esoteric X01D2, but that is in another price bracket.
Kiwi_1282001, I'd be genuinely interested to know the rest of the system (and the condition of the room) you heard the AMR in. I have never traced any "wooliness" (which I interpret as closed in, fuzzy, damped and without dynamics) in my system. It only goes to show the importance of systemic match. I guess, any recommendation in this kind of thread can therefore only be interpreted as flagging the existence of a machine that might or might not fill the bill. Hearing is believing, but, hey, that is what makes this favourite pastime of ours so exciting, isn't it.
11-10-08: Teddy_bear Mike Cary 306 pro is so much better then CD3, CD3 has metal sounding strings. I heard CD3 with AR preamp, Gamut monoblocks on Kharma CRM 3.2.
Yes, the latest Cary 306 gets my vote too. I chose this over the Marantz SA7, Esoteric X-03, EMM CDSA, Ayre C-5XE.
I thought the AMR CD77 was so "woollen" that i expected it to go "bah!".
The DCS Puccini was also pretty impressive - though pricey.
Mike Cary 306 pro is so much better then CD3, CD3 has metal sounding strings. I heard CD3 with AR preamp, Gamut monoblocks on Kharma CRM 3.2. First with expensive all silver cabling, then with all K-S Emotion cabling. With silver it was uninvolving, without life and pretty bad overall. Emotions gave life to the system, dynamics, base, midrange, highs everything was so much better. Then we switched CD3 to Metronome CD5i sig and system was extraordinary, metal strings were gone, soundstage was wider, deeper and higher...
Yes, Tvad, my dealer is worth his weight in gold. I bought a MF kW SACD player, which never played SACD's properly (bad trasnport). After 2 years, I just couldn't take it anymore (redbook was awesome so I didn't want to part with it) and had to bring it back (went for service and came back the same--poor transports). My dealer took it back on a trade in and I bought a new CD player. The kW was $7k new and the new player I bought was $7,400. My dealer gave me the new player (and took the MF) for $3,500! It gets better... The new player performed better with balanced cables, so he called Tara Labs (I exclusively use Tara) and he talked them into giving me a special promotional and I got $2,700 IC's for a little over a grand. Now, that's a dealer.
As Tvad says, client loyalty is earned. He also advertised to more people for me than I ever have! My business grows from word of mouth. Referals from Architects, General Contractors, clients, and more and more often from the principals of products I carry. I carry several competing products/brands... Again Cerrot, I'll wager you are talking with a dealer more often than not. I don't think you will find an offer to sell in a single response of mine... I offer my opinion and experience that I hope the reader takes to his dealer.
I still think my comment about the most modded line on the planet does not qualify as disparagement. I think it would be pretty easy to verify. I don't sell on agon the current product of anything I sell as so many here do. Most products I represent have a ZERO internet sales policy. When I read a post about a 6000 dollar Cary outperforming a 12500 dollar Esoteric as described in the APL post, it is I who question any dealer not trying to provide the highest value to performing products. I'm in it for the long run, and as I have said many times I care a great deal about this community.
Zieman, perhaps you should have posted it. I was wondering where your position was coming from. You are totally bashing Esoteric~which many feel to be a very good product. I find your comments unwarranted and your opinions are more troubling having found out you are a dealer. I have a great relatioship with my dealer and find that his best quality is diplomacy (and humility). He has never once knocked a product that I may have said I liked. He also does not knock products he does not represent. It's my ears (and I am the customer) so if he disagrees, he keeps it to himself. He may ask me to listen to something different, but he never bashes.
I think that part of the point is that you should self-disclose dealer status when applicable. Maybe putting a link to your retail site in your signature would be wise. I, for one, prefer knowing when I'm talking with a dealer or manufacturer vs. an enthusiast.
Baranyi, Finally someone with a sense of humor! I guess this means I have to apologize too. Cerrot, I think you would be very suprized to know how many members hide their industry affiliation. Tvad posted my website, not I.
Nothing worse than seeing very biased, self serving posts from a member here...and then finding out they are a dealer. Now it all makes sense. Try to lighten up a little. We're here to enjoy our hobby, spread a little info, and have fun. I'm sure there is a more appropriate forum if you wish to seel your wares.
at the end I explode the budget ;-) after hearing: Audio Research CD7 (very nice musicality) Krell 505 (with newest preamp and monos with Magico V3 ... a catastrophy!) Wadia 581 ( on the same system, more musical but the cable wasn't obviously a cast ... very slow mechanism!!) Esoteric combi 03 (incredibly analitical with Viola preamp, Manley monos & Amati Palldium) MBL combi (beautifull sound but too expensive, with Pass pream & monos with MBL 101 ... what a mistake! the bass desastrous) EMM Labs single box ( maybe a little slow? Pass integrated with Avalon Sentinel ... waouh what a loudspeaker!!!) Emm Labs combi (same system, incredible details coming out) DCS P8 (very good with JR Capri + monos 501+ Avalon ascendant)
finally I decided to buy the ...
DCS Puccini ... analitical and very musical ... the perfect combination for my sytem
before having it home, I could listen to it on the Avalon Indra & Sentinel
Are you kidding me? They used to send me new SACD Standards before I sent the broken one(s) back! I had three in my foyer at one time! They finally comped me an EVO. I have a couple of unwavering opinions: the stuff has to work to sound good, and the product needs to sound as good as it costs. The gear I "dis" doesn't meet that criteria, IMO. I have an advantage to access to way more gear than most members here. It is very interesting to note the difference between mfgrs that beg for me to carry their line and the lines I have to ask or qualify for.....
No problem w. the door. Krell is good stuff, but they have had thier SACD issues as well. There is tons of very good equipment there. It all comes down to taste & system synergy.
Fail, I do beleive I provide the best buy for my clients. Dgad, there is nothing wrong with a buffer. The load to play times you describe are normal. You talked about a tray door. Unless I am confusing you with yet another unhappy EMM owner? Keep watching my site for new and exciting products! I am a Krell owner and prefer not to do the Show and Tell thing. The retail value of the cabling alone exceeds the value of most members' systems. Most folks are well aware of current Krell retails. I have two pieces Signed by Mr. D'Agostino himself. Wouldn't that be a bit self serving to show off something like that?
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