After all the posts and it being 2012, do these mats actually work? |
Mrtennis
Well said, I couldn't agree more. |
i have several cd players, and a transport.
the transport is a ps audio perfect wave dac. my favorite cd player is the audionote cd2. ialso own other cd players.
with respect to cd mats, of which i have several, including the previous marigo mat and millenium mat,
both the ps audio and audionote when used with a mat, sontribute to a degradtion of sound.
so inaddition to an improvement in sound, no difference in sound add a cd mat as detrimental to the sound.
while the latter case seems counter intuitive, you'll have to trust me on my perception because there is no evidence to disconfirm it.
of course i'll admit that one person's idea of an improvement may be another's sense of a worsening of sound.
incidentally, in all of the posts where components are compared and assertions are made as to one sounding better than another, the subjective nature, and the connotating criteria, vary among audiophiles.
such is the reason for being careful when making a serious decision based upon sense perception.
when one can return a component, the cost is only shipping. |
I should stick to your MP3 player Ziggy. if you are unable to hear any difference with the Evolution mat, you either have a serious issue with your CD player or your hearing. I was so delighted with the new mat I sent Ron at Marigo Labs an immediate note to congratulate him,see below:
I have just received your Evolution signature CD mat from one of your U.K. suppliers (Absolute Analogue) . I was thinking of replacing my current CD Mat (Marigo Signature) but I waited and was hoping you were working on an update - which you were!
This new CD mat is so wonderful, I felt I had to send a note to congratulate you. My CD player is a Naim CDX2 which has a retaining puck for the CD. The thinner mat is great as the puck is now at its most effective- an added bonus.
All your very wide ranging claims for this mat are true!! I have brought my CD replay up to a very high standard in the last few years with the best supports, mains filtration , mains cables etc. The lower noise floor with this mat is equal to one (or more !) major component upgrades. I swear the the mat is becoming more effective the more Cd's I play! Impossible of course but on the best sound quality CD, the sound is truly amazing. Listening to my Pete Hurford Bach Organ CD's at full belt all the wonderful sonic benefits are heard.
Congratulations again, please keep working on improvements!!!
|
After reading all the hype about the CD mat, I decided to purchase one from MusicDirect. I received mine yesterday and heard NO DIFFERENCE at all. On my system their was absolutely no sonic improvement. Just sent it back today.
Cary CD-500
PassLabs XP-10 preamp
Pass Labs X250.5 amp
Vandersteen 5A speakers |
Cheers to Coopersark!
And to you naysayers.....raspberries!! |
I got my cd mat yeserday and all I can say is wow, this is one heck a tweak. It is like a component upgrade. Music is much smoother, less digital sounder for sure. It just improves everthing. It is like getting a new cd player. I am using it with a modded denon 3910 dvd player, this is one of the best upgrades I have gotten especially for the price paid, I am definitly keeping mine |
Just ordered one today from the cable company. I will post my findings when I receive it. |
Thank you very much for all the info. I do believe all who have listened 2 both agree the Evolution is by far better than the last Sig V2 that I just purchased from jazzMaster3 on this site. I was under the impression I had the latest one but obviously not! I hope he wasn't just trying to dump it and buy the newer one which I now must do. Thanks |
Goldenears, music direct has a picture.The evolution is latest and does not go by the name marigo 3d signature v2. |
I just received a marigo 3d Sigature v2 mat and it definitely improves my sound. I hear more inner detail and the soundstage is larger and wider etc. I am wondering is the one I have the newest one or is this (Evolution) newer than what i have. Just curious, when i purchased from another Audiogoner he said this was it! Thanks, Goldenears |
I ask if anyone thinks this all is bs for years why do da da da da da da da. There has to be a better place for you. Are trying to protect us from ourselves. Is doesn't sound like it, but if you do I hope you check statistical data before you do so we get the highest PROBABILITY for the best results we wouldn't want to end up like you know who. Why aren't you out constructively doing da da da da da. |
i find myself agreeing with Ballyhoo - he is spot on with my experience over the years - to me a lot of the high end is total bs
i do have the signature evolution mat however and tone color is def more pronounced - focus is better - the overall presentation is more coherent - i have a $2500 player that is fairly new. - so it is bringing improvements.
the issue for me is that when i read a review like coopersark's i think that in my system - and with the expectations that his words translated into the way i think that for instance the word "shocking" will be. I get totally let down when that particular tweak doesn't live up to my interpretation.
the true test for me is will i be using it in 3 months?
ive had so many mats, cables, isolators, cd players, tweaks over the years - within 3-4 months i could care less if that particular tweak is in my system
on more than one occasion ive told my friend that shows some interest in what i do in my system - that the a lot of the high end is all bs |
I don't know if you remember the old color organs. Just a box that would turn different colors dependent on the freq. running through it. An electronic project in high school. Mid 1960's. Now that really effected the sound. It was kind of psychedelic, it almost made you have an out of body experience. You had to be there. I think that is where the history of color and sound got started. I think I should write an authoritative book on it. Do you think audio phillies would like it. Oh sure they like everything. At least with a color organ you don't just hear the difference you can see it. Should appeal to those that say, if you can't measure it, it ain't so you are just delusional. You shouldn't let curiosity get you goooo aheeaadd and check that color organ out. Remember you can see the difference. |
I have some new acoustic devices that I now use on my speakers and lay on the floor. The way that sound travels over and around these devices can be altered by the finish flat, satin or pebbled coarse. The placement required determines the finish and the resulting sonic benefit. Tom |
Color is an important issue for sound, aside from the way color influences the sound of cd players. For example, all things being equal a room with blue walls will sound considerably better than a room with white or green walls, and a room with a green ceiling will sound superior to the same room with a different color ceiling or white ceiling. Another example how color affects the sound is a power cord with a white jacket will sound superior to the same power cord with a black or different color jacket. In fact, wrapping a power cord that has a black jacket with white tape will improve the sound.
Geoff
Machina Dynamica
Advanced Audio Concepts |
Color, finish and texture all three for sure. Add one more and that is material foursure.. Tom |
If'n ya don't know by now I ain't gonna tell ya. |
Ok are you guys talking about colors actually serious ? I have got to know.
Love this thread :) |
HI all,
Here's what I've learned in my brief foray on this site.
First, after having used the new mat for over two weeks, I can say that it has clearly increased my systems performance and my ability to further enjoy the music. I highly recommend that you try one, with a money back guarantee. You may be pleasantly surprised. I will not be returning mine.
Second, it's really a shame that those who have no knowledge of a product choose to admonish and insult well intentioned people without any basis for such actions.
To that group, you may want to reconsider your attitude about what you read and how it may help you to learn and enjoy music to a greater degree. To the best of my knowledge, I believe that is the core goal of this hobby.
Finally, this has been my first experience posting on this site and will be my last post on this thread or any other Audiogon thread for that matter. There are other audio sites where the members post intelligent, defensible comments and treat each other with respect and dignity.
To those who have made positive contributions to this thread, I thank you.
Happy listening to all. |
What does a fuscia mat sound like? Is marigold better or worse than coral? |
Pretty cool, Tom. Ours are located at the critical interface between the CD and the tray. |
With our mat the edges did not need to be painted ..Secondary edge treatment was dismissed because the design encompassed the entire CD. Tom |
I am rather certain the color(s) of the inks used in the manufacture of the CD label influence(s) the sound, as well as the results of various mats. While I'm keen on the color turquoise, it appears that different CDs often respond differently to a particular color - either the color of pen used to paint the edges or CD mat. A prime example is Mercury Living Presence classical CDs that have black and white labels. While most CDs respond well to coloring the edges green, the Mercurys sound worse with green but better with red. |
Couple of us at Starsound had our hand in the development of a CD cover mat several years back. Ours [I still have a couple for my own use] had a feature that no other brand attempted... repeatable top and edge cover all with the same device and three other design features as well .. The truly amazing thing about this device was when you added color to its inside surface even with a slight variation in shade you could easily hear the difference in the playback of music. Those variations in shading when added would be listened and compared to a reference that was all black..and when a new shade would become the new reference it too would have to be compared to another family shade. Now you have the color and shade down now you have to compare the finish of the paint. The finish makes as much difference as the color choice. The human ear and body is one giant sensory detector. Tom |
You are being argumentative and cannot support your claim. Furthermore, name calling is childish and unprofessional. |
Rest assured I am not your buddy.
All the disparaging remarks you have made clearly infer you have not listened to the product?
Have you or have you not heard the product?
And assuming you have not, why have you chosen to post on this thread in the first place? |
>>01-14-12: Geoffkait
So, you know what everyone thinks<<
Don't twist my words. I said everybody has different interpretations of "musicality", "organic", and "prat". Think that's wrong? Show me a forum or thread where there is universal acceptance of those terms. You can't huckster.
>>01-14-12: Bubinga
Just like he knows what an audio product sounds like without listening to it.<<
Please point out where I posted that? You can't. Too bad bubby.
>>01-14-12: Geoffkait
I'm quite sure all real audiophiles cherish soundstage and dynamics<<
Irrelevant. The issue was whether or not there is univeral acceptance of audiophile buzz words as mentioned above. Which there isn't. Tough luck sparky. |
While I don't subscribe to online dictionaries, it's nice to know the dictionary agrees with most of my terminology. I'm quite sure all real audiophiles cherish soundstage and dynamics. I know I do.
Cheers |
hi geoffkait:
i searched for a definition of music, on-line. i found the following, sourced from the free on-line dictionary:
the art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm and timbre.
notice there is no mention of soundstage or dynamics. dynamics and soundstage are by products of performing a musical composition in some space, but the latter aspects are not part of the definition.
recorded music would connote the usual audiophile terms of which you speak. but the denotation does not include them. |
Audiofeil is absolutely 100% correct. No one interprets senses( ie. sound) exactly the same,no one.If you think about it I am sure you will figure out why. |
Geo,
Of course he does.
Just like he knows what an audio product sounds like without listening to it. |
"Every listener interprets them differently." So, you know what everyone thinks, eh? Interesting. |
Disagree re soundstage. Soundstage is inherent in the recording. I.e., room size and room acoustics are embedded in the fabric of the recording, at least for live music. |
musicality concerns the principal effects of playing an instrument, namlely, timbre, dynamics,pitch (the nfundamental), harmonics, and tempo.
soundstage is an artifact, it is not part of the definition of music.
it is purely an audiophile term. |
In your opinion and I'd rather be an outsider if that's the case.
The problem is that musicality, organic, Prat (one of the dumbest audio buzzwords), etc. are nebulous at best. Every listener interprets them differently.
Insiders know this. |
It's not that difficult a concept. Musicality is the inherent realism of the sound as determined by dynamics, microdynamics, tone, rhythm, detail, density of sound, size of soundstage, and emotional impact. Insiders know what the word means. |
Ah yes, the term musicality can mean many things to many people.It is one of the most idiotic terms thrown around audiophile circles. What does it mean? Ask 10 audiophiles and you will get 10 different answers. The term is basically meaningless. I have probably used it myself, funny.
I must admit. I kinda had a chuckle reading Copernicus's response as it reminded me of a child tattling. |
I think Mrtennis has it correct or at least has had similiar experiences to mine. I've had many CD players, transports and DAC's and found a wide variance in what coupling and isolation devices can do, that includes mats and shelve's made of many different natural and exotic material's, cones, balls, spring's, spikes, ect, ect. I have not tried active isolation. My current setup is a great example, my Ayre CD5MP prefers a solid carbon fiber base while my Audio Research DAC8 insists on being directly coupled to the two inch thick wood shelf thats part of my stand, put anything under the DAC8 and it protests with audible anomalies. |
I just received an e-mail from a poster on this thread.
It was condescending and insulting. I have blocked him from sending me another e-mail.
This does raise an interesting issue about this site and its Discussion Forum.
If one has something to say about a product, is it reasonable to expect that the individual would listen to the product before making a comment?
Or is this a site where people hang out to insult and harass well intentioned audiophiles and said conduct is considered acceptable without any repercussions?
I really don't get it and don't want to.
To those who conduct themselves in this manner, please reconsider. Your conduct is counterproductive to the integrity of this site, the ability to discuss an audio product in a respectful / intelligent manner and serves no positive purpose.
If someone moderates these forums, please contact me and I'll provide you with the details of this unfortunate incident. |
Explain musicality to me copernicus. |
Audiofeil,
Actually it's sad that you don't understand the concept (musicality) assuming you enjoy listening to music. |
It certainly makes sense that the naysayers don't understand the meaning of the word musicality. |
>>"definite improvement in the overall musicality"<<
Improved musicality, now that's funny
LOL |
I just put the mat on my top loading BMC transport and companion DAC unit. I kept A-B ing disc after disc. I can say there is a definite improvement in the overall musicality and presentation. The distributor told me to return it for a full refund if I wasn't totally satisfied. To me this twek is a definite "keeper". Under those terms there is very little downside and I have gained lots of "upside" in my listening experience. |
Cooper,
Don't beat yourself up over this.
As I said in a previous post, some people feel the need to post negative comments although they have absolutely no basis for doing so.
Sounds a bit like politics? The blind leading the blind or perhaps other issues with personal ego and self esteem.
These type folks exist, to some degree or another, on all public sites. Depends on the site and the moderation regarding their "shelf life".
I would suggest you post on other websites, where the participants actually use their ears to determine the efficacy of an audio product, and provide intelligent insight thereof.
Contact Ron and he can provide you with my contact information.
Best,
GG |
" but no one has responded to my conjecture that some cd players, are either unaffected by cd mats, or sound worse with them."
These are two separate questions, first involving at least techical aspects and second to subjective analyses.
1. Your CD Transport read is based on RUR principle i.e. its read until right whereas conventional CD Transport read and then use error correction algorithms. Since mat suppose to imporve ONLY accuracy of the reading (its measurable and shown centuries ago - remember $15 "green pen" - I still use it and hear the difference very clearly) it design to help conventional CD Transports only.
On paper, therefore RUR reading should be unaffected by change in accurace of first read as it reads again and again.
In real life its not so simple - different ripping softwares like Foobar, JRiver, EAC should produce identical results but ...they are not. So, it could be some effect of MAT but in much lessen degree then in conventional CD Transports. As you describe - your Transport does exactly what is suppose to do (withing accuracy of your hearing)
Second question of worsening sound due to the mat - I prefer not to go there as totally subjective matter.
All The Best
Simon |
GG,
Isn't it ironic that everyone who had posted that they have USED & EXPERIENCED this new Marigo Evolution Signature mat, all heard similar improvements and those who have not have made the choice not to do so have done nothing but harp negativity? I find those respondent's comments totally inane and baseless, as they are speaking from unsubstantiated opinion and not from first hand experience. I had started this thread as I was so overwhelmed by the sonic improvements wrought by using this disc. Those who have not tried or experienced it have had nothing but negative things to say. Absolutely incredulous!
If someone does not want to try this mat, that is up to them. It is their choice - no more and no less than that. Those of closed and/or negatively opinionated mind will never change and should simply be ignored.
Those that want to be enlightened will take what the first hand users of this mat have had to say, based on substantiated experience and not unsubstantiated opinion and try it first hand for themselves.
Kind regards,
Coopersark |
there have been many comments relating to uninformed opinions. but no one has responded to my conjecture that some cd players, are either unaffected by cd mats, or sound worse with them.
i am not referring to the mat that is the subject of this thread, although i own the previous version of the marigo mat, as well as other mats.
i own an audionote cd2 player and a ps audio transport, which to my ears, do not benefit from the mats i have tried.
again, i cannot comment on the mat in question, but does someone have any ideas why a mat would not matter, or degrade the sound ? |
If you think a difference is heard good for you.
This makes good business for captain kaitt and other snake oil salesmen. |
