I thought that was a given! |
Just tell those guys you are trying to get your Zen on. They'll understand... |
I wish I had a picture of you while you were sleeping. Shoes off, totally exhausted from four days of music and banter. Thanks for your help and company.
Bobby@merlin |
Hey guys, was just reading 6moons.com CES show report and from what I read in thier comments about the Merlin/CAT suite, apparently Merlin has any macro dynamic issues licked! :-) No complaints about dynamic compression or the ability to not play loudly... apparently it was a wee bit too loud when 6moons staff members visited! D'oh! :-0 Of course it doesn't hurt when you got 400lbs of 150W CAT JL3 triode monoblocks muscle to help deliver those clean, clear, and robust SPLs. :-) ;-)
You can see what they have to say at this link:
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/ces04/ces04_7.html
On a more serious note, I'm sorry if we made things difficult for any neighbors (there were no complaints though from them during the show).... at one point during the show, I recall Bobby playing the Tony Degradi Trio CD (which has some amazing dynamics) at some rather "robust" SPLs and I was getting ragged on by Bobby, Kenny, and Lee becuase I was snoozing in the nice big comfy chair in one corner of the room while this was going on. Thing is, if the sound in the room was not as clean, clear, natural, and uncompressed as it was, I would have not been 'power napping' in the corner chair, but would have been heading over to the preamp to turn it down or walking out of the room.
Rich Brkich
Owner, Signature Sound |
Hi Kevin,
Sorry, I thought you were an engineer friend that owned the speakers in CA. Many thanks for your kind thoughts and feel free to contact me at any time if there is something that I can do for you. We would be pleased to have you in our Merlin family.
Regards,
Bobby |
Kevin, it's interesting you mention that about the Sound Labs. I came across a local guy that has a pair of Sound Lab M1 speakers and he was nice enough to invite me over this weekend. One question he asked me on the phone was "Do you listen loud?" I have never heard the Sound Labs but have always heard nice things about them. It'll be an interesting comparison.
|
Hi Bobby. I'm not a Merlin owner. I'm merely a Merlin admirer. I'm always amazed when I hear good things about speakers that cost far more, Rockports being a good example, but that don't have nearly the capability. The Rockports I've heard (Hyperion, Antares), for example, swallow dynamic nuance and suppress the dynamic and leading edge excitement inherent in live music. Merlin gets these aspects of reproduced music right. |
I just re-read your post, Bobby.
D'OH!
I will endeavor to improve my reading skills.
In any case, fwiw, I think your VSM speakers
are among the most transparent and dynamic on
box speakers on earth. Those who "think"
the Sound Labs can achieve anywhere near the
dynamic nuance and capability are kidding themselves.
Or just don't know better. |
Bye the way Kevin, did you ever do the sixth toe mod to your speakers? This will make a really big difference for you and actually further reduce energy build up in the VSM while providing more stable footing. The additional bass extension and fullness makes a really big difference to the ambient energy and size of the presentation. The ERS and tuning puck makes the sound more uniform so you can really hear into the music core to a greater degree. Additive noise in the way of RFI and EMI can add a false fizzle to the sound and once this is removed, the resolution, smoothness and purity are enhanced.
Regards,
Bobby@merlin |
Hi Kevin,
I ask you to read my last post again as it explains that the resonance issue was actually dealt with prior to the review in Stereophile. Flying changes to the production of the VSM were made in advance of the review but the review sample did not have the changes because of the time issue. The truth of the matter is that the resonance is not measurable unless extreme output (well above 100 dB) is generated making this a non issue for 99.9% of the listeners. That is why this matter was dealt with after the cabinet material change and not before.
Regards,
Bobby@merlin |
I think sometimes my words can have a little more bite to them than I intend. I am not much for BS and I try to call it as I see it. I think I remember being told I was wrong once. I don't recall exactly as I disregarded the comments.
I think this thread/string is a good example for people considering various components/opinions via the internet. Even those with a tremendous amount of experience in the hobby can offer opinions that don't entirely reflect what is so. That goes for experienced owners as well - me included. I must say that I have gotten pretty lucky with respect to equipment selection and what makes me happy. If there is any advice I can offer about selecting gear, or in this case - an amp, it's to try and spot trends of opinion from people you can discern have experience and similar tastes as yours. Would I ask Crump to recommend an amp for my use? Probably not. But he might be an ideal resource for someone else. And we're fortunate enough to have his experienced opinion. There are a few people whos opinion I consider a stone cold lock as it relates to my own perferences and tastes. And it is helpful to consider their opinions when wading through the chaff. That's my little nugget of pseudo-wisdom for the day.
Kevinkwann, you ask an interesting question. It reminds me of a conversation I had with Bobby around the time I heard about that 6th toe mod. As I recall, it was not based on rocket science but rather, "I wonder what would happen if we tried this today..." I suspect that sort of engineering accounts for much of the best gear in the industry today. I suppose it's the sort of thing that people with a passion for their product do. Whether or not it's commonplace for floorstanding speakers to have extra thick baffles the entire running length of the front, I am not certain. I don't build speakers or pretend to. I just know what I like. In any case, I am obliged to warn you of throngs of Merlin fanatics headed your way armed with slingshots and tubes. :) |
I'm sure they are Brian, I was just surprised as it was coming from you who I hold in high regard in both your demeanor and taste. I just feel that Jim has received enough flack from everyone else, the point was well made prior to your post. Along with being a passionate Merlin owner he is also one hell of a great guy. Typed words without personal contact have a way of muddling things up a bit. |
Tubegroover, I didn't mean to sound condescending toward Jim2 nor to anyone else and apologize if I did. Truth be told, and Bobby knows it, I enjoy visiting his room at CES each year to play some tasty vinyl cuts...always fun... Some of my customers have Merlins, and they are treated with the utmost respect just as everyone else is...
Brian Walsh |
This thread is amazing I love it!!
We have manufacturer's posting: 3+/-
TG audio/CTC engineering,
Merlin(btw Bobby we met a few years ago at Mario's place in White Plains- I still liked how that room sounded with the prototype JL2- that was my first experience with your speakers) and
Shunyata!
We have Brian the super cool guy from Essential Audio. I have never seen this much interest in a thread from so many people in the business.
On topic I am a Tenor fan, I feel they are possibly the finest amplifiers available, but clearly they are not for everybody for obvious reasons(price comes to mind). VTL's are great amplifier's as well, but not in the same league of performance as the Tenor's. There are a few questions you need to ask yourself before you jump in any one direction, how much are you willing to spend? It seems like it would be worth while to get your speaker upgraded if that is an option from Merlin. I spent a long day of listening with Bobby at Toys from the Attic a few years ago and was really impressed with what his speaker's are capable of- the tweaks and adjustments he made to the system all day were amazing(after 8 hours it sounded like a completely different system). I can understand why you like them and feel that it would be worth looking into upgrading them. If your still not satisfied and want to continue on down the upgrade path I would urge you to arrange an audition on the Tenor 150s hybrid dual mono amplifier. I have listened to the original 75watt otl's and the 300 hybrid mono's and what they do NO other amplifier can do better- transparency and resolution must be heard to be believed. If you are happy with your speakers and are looking for that last bit of performance the Tenor's would be the way to go- IMO and they would be able to power your speakers with aplomb(though I don't think that is a high priority for you). In any case the advice given to you on 1-16-04 from Grant at shunyata(aka Samuel) was the best advice I have heard in a long time- don't put a lot of stock in what any one says here, including me. Good luck with your voyage and please keep us up to date with what you decide. |
Brian Welch, why the condescending attitude towards Jim? He is passionate in his belief that Brooks has his speaker but maybe hasn't realized its potential. There seems to have been a few assumptions made that I wasn't aware of until Brooks's last post. I have little doubt that Brooks has not realized the potential of his Merlins. I've owned the speakers for almost 4 years and am continually confounded by how damn good they are and how all important it is to focus on the synergy of the upstream components and ancilliaries. So far as bass goes, I really wonder how many of you guys realize what kind of bass these speakers are truly capable of in the right room?
Bobby P has one hell of a design here and the point I'm trying to make is that I'm not real sure that too many folks realize HOW special the VSM really is and the potential for an audio system of the highest order? Yes Brian Welch, it is about musical involvement. I know a guy with SoundLabs and he thinks the VSM is one of the top 5 speakers on the planet, go figure. I think the Soundlabs are one of the top 5 speakers on the planet unfortunately I don't have the room, inclination for a 200-250 watt tube amp or space, what are ya going to do? |
I've really enjoyed reading this thread (or 'string' as Bobby calls it :-) and got a lot of laughs. Sounds like a bunch of guys with some different priorities and different ways of hearing things, but guess we're all after the same thing: music enjoyment. Particularly enjoyed Zaikesman's 'soup Nazi' quip and appreciate Bob's and Bobby's contributions, however diverse they may be. Jim2, you might want to lighten up just a touch, nobody's attacking you or your system.
Brooks and I had a fun chat yesterday, and we'll get together as he can check out a few things in his quest for the best. Meanwhile, I look forward to more helpful ideas to be posted.
Brian Walsh |
brooksl
just contact first sound and ask them how to reduce the gain. they'll know.
bobby
good to know you resolved one of the only issues w/ your otherwise outstanding, overachieving speakers. within their limits, they were quite wonderful.
rhyno |
Hello guys. This thread has certainly taken some unexpected turns. Jim, thanks for trying to keep the focus of the thread on amplifier ideas. Bob, thank you for injecting a possibility that I had not considered.
It has never occurred to me that the size of my room could be an issue. However, just in case it could be a problem - my room is a basement shaped like a "U." The left side is the listening area which is 18x26x7. The empty area in the center of the "U" is the staircase (it is walled off toward the listening area). The speakers are at the top left of the letter firing toward the bottom. There are French doors w/glass panes at the top left of the letter and there are no other doors or partitions.
One of the other reasons that I am considering replacing the VTLs is that I cannot turn my preamp up past 9:00 (in triode) without it becoming too loud. That is three or four, 2 decibel clicks on my volume control. I would like the ability to fine tune the volume better. This would automatically make one consider a different preamp. However, after hearing many other preamps, I really like my First Sound. Even the Placette RVC with its 98 steps, was not better in this respect because it ramps up quickly.
Have any of you had your Merlins updated to the MX version? Is that even a possibility? |
Zaikesman, no need to qualify your comments. I've got thick skin. We're just batting it around a little. Crump is a good guy and I understand his point, and I'm sure he understands mine. Ooops, looky there, it's Beer:30 Time to go.... |
Bobby, you said, "This greatly reduced an energy storage issue which John Atkinson picked up on in his tests."
This begs the question: Why did it take a reviewer to pick up on this problem for you to discover and correct it?
You mention a program of "on going research" yet this very very basic aspect of design, a simple resonance problem, was overlooked? Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of your VSM... but how could you miss a design problem this obvious? |
Yo Bob, how's Fritz doing these days? |
P.S. - I want to make it clear that I do not intend to argue against honest disagreement with my above post. Anybody who's read me from time to time on this forum will know that's somewhat of a specialty of mine. It's scolding and muzzling I object to. And lest I be accused of the same thing 'fore long here, this is my exit cue from this thread. Carry on... |
OK, my mistake, and RcrumP, I (and most of the regulars) know about CTC and TG Audio, just wanted to keep you in the game and make sure Jim2 and others satisfied. And I have never been included among a list of the fastidious, the somewhat fastidious, or the fastidious wanna-bes. The only time that word has occured in the same sentence as my name is in terms of an antonym (e.g., If anyone had seen his office, they never would have thought that Swampwalker was fastidious). Cheers to all, and lets not get our knickers in a knot!!! |
And by the way Rhyno, the dynamic compression and loud level playback issues have been fully dealt with. A few months before the review in Stereophile, we made a flying production change to the VSM M and extended the front double baffle down the entire enclosure. This greatly reduced an energy storage issue which John Atkinson picked up on in his tests. The unfortunate thing is that the speakers tested by Stereophile predated the change because we needed to provide the speakers in a timely manner and to make a new pair would have delayed things another 8 to 10 weeks. Then about 15 months ago we offered up the 6th toe mod which places 2 cones on the front and one on the back. The additional support for the firing plane and superior dynamic coupling greatly enhanced the tonality (which Tubegroover and others can comment on) and the addition of the tuning weight and ERS for the BAM and digital sources enabled the speakers to sound much more robust and dimensional. These changes were clearly picked up on by the press comments of last years CES. That is also why many that read Robert's and your comments can't agree with you. Your product predated theirs and did not have the enhanced performance. The last and most critical aspect of the on going research was completed with the MX version. I would say that dynamic compression is now incredibly low and that you can now play these speakers louder than stink. Why else do you think I showed with Ken Stevens of CAT, the dynamics and volume King of high end audio. There was little doubt that the system in AP1652 was capable of some really extraordinary output and dynamic potential.
Anyhow, good to see you are still around and have fun with your SLs.
Regards,
Bobby@merlin |
Jim2: You might as well 'shush' - or 'tsk-tsk', or whatever it is you're trying to do - me as well, because I've wandered seriously off-topic and am apparently in need of censure. Rcrump didn't slam anybody, wasn't rude, didn't pimp his own products (covertly or otherwise), and wasn't out of line or being non-constructive by seemingly anybody's estimation save your own. Ease up my man, the yakfest is what this is all about, so let's just have fun and some respect for each other's various points of view. Discussions evolve, threads morph, new questions are raised, different quarters are heard from, and that's a large part of what makes it interesting. Remember the 'soup Nazi' on Seinfeld? No one enjoys a 'thread Nazi' even as much as a 'soup Nazi' (at least *he* had soup!) - especially without benefit of the comic relief.
[Speaking of which...Swampie: "Rcrumb" also draws those cool underground comix...what a diverse guy! ;^) ] |
Bob, I hope you don't think I am making these comments because of ego. If that's how you rationalize it then that's fine. I've just been a happy customer for the past 4 years and would hate to see others make decisions based on (what I am many others think) a viewpoint that does not accurately portray the product and is counter to my experience. People waste a lot of money and time on bad advice in this hobby.
Now, if Brooks' house is indeed as big as you ASSume it to be then perhaps we should all meet there for a few beers??
Brooks, what was your question again? |
Hi Bobbyapalkovic! I have not heard the latest wiring change you made to the VSMs, but really liked the combination of Ryan's VSMs and Entecs crossed over 6db per octave on the high pass at 100hz......The combination did just everything right.....Ryan used a huge custom high pass amplifier we at CTC built and it matched well with the amp in the Entecs.....Continuity was excellent as was the overall sound. Glad to hear you are going to unleash the woofers on the public one of these days and know you have been working on them for years.....
Swampwalker, I own TG Audio and CTC Builders. TG Audio manufactures Cables, AC Filters and Isolation Devices (footers). CTC Builders designed and builds a preamp and shortly a phono stage and does design work for others such as the JC-1 we designed for Parasound a year ago. We are currently working with a manufacturer on a digital playback system......TG has been around for 21 years and CTC for just over five years with my partners John Curl and Carl Thompson. |
One of the amazing things about this hobby and this site is the access to manufacturers and designers. As long as everyone knows who the players are, then there is no harm. Please feel free to jump in with whenever/however, you feel, Rcrumb. Although the regulars all know your background, a short disclaimer may be necessary to inform the new folks and satisfy some of the particularly fastidious among us. |
I have been keeping an eye on this string and have a few things to add.
Robert, you are judging all VSM Millenniums by the ones heard at Rhyno's home and this is a mistake. His speakers were wired with the S harness. This version is voiced to be the antithesis of certain types of amplifiers that are both SS and tube. It tends to embellish the middle portion of the bandwidth to flesh out the music core. It does make for better image density but produces a more forward and less deep and wide presentation. Under certain situations they can be made to sound unbalanced, forward and somewhat truncated in the extreme treble and bass. By crossing the speaker over at 100 Hz you would again set the balance to lean and forward side by unweighting the natural balance of the VSM. That is why my subwoofers (which I will release when I am ready to increase my production) will cross over at 30 Hz at 12 or 24 dB per octave.
The T version of the speaker is not voiced and is much harder to lean out. It is capable of producing much more ambient information because it is more fleshed out in the extremities and thus, by comparison, relaxes the mids. This T version actually sounds quite a bit larger and tonally richer than the S version. And latter versions of the speakers with the 6th toe mod, tuning pucks and ERS materials sound even more relaxed, uniform and fleshed out making them sound even larger and more believable again.
The latest version of the VSM, the MX, sounds even fuller and considerably larger again so it is doing an absolutely fantastic job of recreating size and venue.
I am a big fan of Dr. West's electrostats and Andrew's Rockports and recommend them routinely for larger room applications. But, there is no doubt in my mind that the VSM has a special place in this market for normal sized living enviroments and in fact rooms of in excess of 5000 cubic feet with attention being paid to the tonal virtues of the wires and electronics.
I think you make fabulous products Bob but in my opinion they work much better with the latter T version of the VSM Millennium and the MX version than what you heard them on.
Happy New Year!
Bobby@merlin |
Jim2, Brooks1 lives near Chicago in one of the most affluent areas so doubt his room is a closet.......I always thought it was fine for a manufacturer to offer opinions regarding something he neither sells nor makes....Sorry to be so tasteless and I'll try to limit my comments to gear you don't own in the future....... |
Zaikesman, I didn't tell Crump to keep quiet, I told him to show some class and to offer constructive input regarding the topic of the thread or move along. Up to that point he had failed to address the topic of this thread. Finally, he did and I agree with his advice about amps. I disagree about just recommending a sub without even asking about the room first. But that is not the only assumption Bob has made in this thread - i.e. that the poster has room for larger speakers.
I may be old fashioned, but I think it is a but unbecoming for a "manufacturer" to make the sort of comments about other manufacturers that Bob did. Particularly when they are based on opinion, not fact. And particularly so when the comments fail to even address the question being asked. It just seems to me to be a bit tasteless on his part. But there is no accounting for good taste, and I suspect I should not expect it.
Corona, I have thought more about my comments and I stand by them, thanks. |
Just gotta laugh out loud as it so hard to even get goose bumps.....Guess if it was easy it would take the fun out of it....If I get the size and venue right I feel I have achieved something with my gear and wires...... |
Yes indeed, it is all about the goosebump factor and that is all we can hope for. Audiophiles always remind me of greyhounds chasing the mechanical rabbit or Cubs and Boston fans, what would they do with themselves if they won the Series? |
The large presentation is fairly easy to achieve as normally just need flat response to the low 30s is all........Dynamics are much much tougher to achieve as have both driver distortion problems and amps going into class B with higher order distortions to deal with... Now if you like focus and imaging all at the same time as everything else it gets even harder..... Have a friend with horns that get the dynamics right and not much else.....Best leading edge I ever heard, but no depth, size or focus.... Tough to get everything right is my point and don't think anyone has achieved a facsimile of live versus memorex.......Once in a great while the sound will raise the hair on my arms and think that is all we can hope for in the here and now...... |
I haven't listened to Merlins, Rockports, Avantgardes, or MBL's, or the big SoundLabs and JMLabs, but I have always taken it as a given that no speaker can fully capture the dynamics of live music or adequately present the scale of a large venue (acknowledging that these limitations are also shared functions of the recording end of things). Some here apparently think I'm wrong in this assumption?... |
Venue information the Merlins get just fine........Size of presentation they don't achieve as the size of the presentation grows 30% when woofers are added.....Reason I no longer use subwoofers is they don't match with my amps in the high pass as you intimated can happen.....Someone once said "If you ain't got no bass, then you ain't got no space" and that is what Ryan was referring to, size of presentation, not venue information, but they are interrelated....Lots of speakers out there in the 20K range that will achieve a life sized presentation with the VTL450s and the reason I suggested another tact in the first place.......If I had a small room the Merlins would be on my short list of possibilities........I wish Merlin would finally get around to doing a subwoofer/crossover as Bobby has been talking about it now for well over five years...... |
traditional sub hookups are problematic, i admit. i had a custom passive x-over designed to roll off the merlins at 100hz at 6db/octave and let the subs come in there. coherence was not lost---i certainly couldn't hear the extra x-over, but i could hear lots more venue info per the subs...
with a sub, the merlins can play Big. but ask them to play loud and, as fremer noted in his stereophile review, their tonal balance skews towards edginess and some brightness. ---its not merlin's fault, every 2-way compresses when driven too loud. merlins do it less than most, but they compress at higher SPLs.
rhyno |
Rhyno, I have to respectfully disagree with your statement that Merlins don't get venue. This goes back to the issue of room size. I have heard some quite large systems myself including Infinity IRS 5's and the big Genesis system that get venue about as right as it can be. The VSM's do this but maybe not in a large room? Room size can't be overlooked. Why add a subwoofer to the mix at the expense of losing the coherence of the VSM? This is their point and appeal. Subs don't cut the cake. If you are going to mate a sub with a speaker such as the VSM I would agree, you're better off going with a larger system. |
Being familiar with rcrump's and rhyno's systems, I'll throw out a couple of thoughts, biased as they may be.
The Merlins excel at what they do, portraying a detailed, musical image, revealing much of the character of the associated equipment. They are most commonly suited to smaller rooms, as their capabilities for moving a lot of air are limited. They work well with music associated with smaller ensembles, such as small jazz and folk groups, as large symphonic works can reveal their limitations. That said, they are still very good speakers. I admire Bobby P's dedication and persistence in refining his products over the years.
The requirements of hefty amplifiers for Sound Labs are about to go away, as Sound Lab demonstrated a pair of Ultimate-1s at CES implementing some new technology realizing significant gains in efficiency and dynamics. Driven by some 100 watt solid state monoblocks, they had no trouble reaching adequate levels despite the lack of a preamp which was held up in customs...they had to make do with a CD player putting out only 0.7 V into the amps which require 1.3 V for full output. With the right preamp driving the amps the sound would have been much fuller and more dynamic. Anyone wanting further information on this can contact me offline.
Brian Walsh |
Jim2, I like a larger presentation than the Merlins will allow, but have friend locally that had the Merlins set up with some old Entec woofers that did just about everything correctly as the size of the presentation was life sized, about 30% larger than using just the Merlins.....As far as amps go I would go with the Berning or Joule OTLs and buy some subwoofers and still have money left over from the 20K or keep the VTLs and buy some JM labs......JM will get the weight and size of a piano correct......
I used the Sound Lab M-1s at CES 2003 with my home system and noted they were cleaner than my Rockports and were definitely full range and cut a deal with Roger West as he wanted a preamp.......If I can get the focus and immediacy out of the Sound Labs here then I will replace the Rockports and if not I will keep both.....Unfortunately, nothing is perfect on an overall basis as Kenkwann points out as few speakers get the leading edge right.......You pick your poison and live with it for a while....... |
i may as well chime in here:
as a former owner of VSM-Ms and good friend of rcrump, he heard my merlin-based setup many times and saw it evolve from decent to good to great. but the inherent limitations of the design remain---and that is what he took issue with, and incidentally that is why i sold them. they are, after all, a 2-way, and cannot do BIG (and venue = big) properly. ---also, they don't like loud volumes, big listening rooms, or listeners above axis. within these constraints, they're wonderful. outside, and you get the suggestion for different speakers (with their own new limitations).
rest assured that my new SLs are not perfect, and there's many aspects of the merlins that i'd prefer over the SLs, they were that good (if ever i needed another 2-way, i'd buy merlins no question). but the SLs full range presentation and reproductive ease (with the right amp---no small chore finding it) are a nice change from the limits i associated with the merlins.
i agree with bob that a change in amp will not get venue from the merlins. a sub will. i know--i did this w/ entec LF20s and it filled in the bottom nicely. and like bob, i have to question the logic of trading one world-class amp for another...my guess is there's other system problems that would need addressed before upgrading a top 10 amp to another top 10 amp.
rhyno |
KevinKwann as a Merlin owner, I agree that Merlin is excellent at dynamic contrasts but would further say the Sound Labs EXCEL at low level dynamic contrasts of musical instruments to a greater extent, I haven't heard it done better by any speaker. The Merlins are among the best I have heard in this respect and along with their tonal balance it is one of their great virtues. These speakers present very refined, defined pitch at low levels. I've heard some quite amazing bass from the VSM although it requires a a powerful amp with plenty of control to realize it.
So far as BIG dynamics, larger speakers are better at capturing this providing you have a room and it is treated properly but this doesn't always equate to real so much as more visceral, depends on your musical priorities I suppose. Furthermore, the VSM's are MUCH better suited to a small to medium sized room. Much more so than a large system IMHO. I ain't gonna argue with Bob Crump, I respect his hearing although I have never met him. His cables tell me a lot about how he hears and he also has the SoundLabs, not a bad choice. |
Jim2:
Zaikesman and I always seem to be on opposite sides of a discussion, but he is right on this one.
Suggestion: Rethink your statement. |
I agree with you Zaikesman regarding Jim and RC. The more we hear from RC the better as far as I'm concerned.
As to your second point, I was implying nothing. What I said was clear and speaks for itself. Speakers that get the dynamic contrasts of music right include, among others, Merlin, Avantgarde and the mbl 101 series. |
Jim: I take exception to your admonishing RC to keep quiet. The point of view he offered (that in his opinion the money might be better spent on keeping the amps and replacing the speakers) - whether or not you agree with it - is a perfectly legit take on the query, and not at all out of bounds in my book or by Agon custom.
Attempting to shut up a good-faith poster on an open forum, however, *is* out of bounds in my book. Introducing an alternative perspective does not "muddle the thread" as you put it, but asking someone to "go away" shows less than "a little class", my friend.
Kevinkwann: Do you know of any speakers that "get the dynamics of live music right"? Are you implying that the Merlins do so? |
Good for you, Bob. The Sound Labs are great speakers. And I think your last comment is probably most appropriate here... i.e. You don't have to like the Merlins, I (and a lot of others) do. No speaker is perfect for every room or every person. The Merlins are no exception. But regardless of your opinion, there are certain matches for the Merlins in terms of amplification that are fairly expensive and worth the investment. You don't agree. Point taken. I and others disagree with you.
Now, do you have anything worthwhile to offer with respect to the question at hand - matching an amp with the Merlins? If not, it seems to me appropriate that you show a little class and go away so as to not muddle this thread anymore.
Enjoy your new speakers. |
"Kevinkwann, to each his own and the Rockports tell me more about my designs than anything else I have access to.....I bet you won't like the set of speakers I have just traded a preamp for, Sound Lab M-1s..."
Hi Rcrump. If the Rockports tell you more about your designs than anything else you have access to, why on earth did you just get the Sound Lab?
To answer your question, I like loudspeakers that get the dynamics of live music right. The Rockports, Kharmas and Sound Labs don't. The Sound Labs, however, do at lot of things very well. Enjoy them! |
Jim2, makes more sense to spend the dollars where it will do the most good.....Kevinkwann, to each his own and the Rockports tell me more about my designs than anything else I have access to.....I see by your other responses that you don't care for Kharma either.....I bet you won't like the set of speakers I have just traded a preamp for, Sound Lab M-1s......The nice thing is you don't have to, I do........ |
Rcrump it is obvious you have good ears as your comments about the Merlins are quite accurate. That's why your admiration of the Rockport sound is so confusing. They've always had a certain lifelessness/deadness about them that is very hard to overlook and impossible not to hear. Although they are competent designs, they are far away from musical realism. The Merlins, despite their image size, are far more tonally accurate and musically realistic. |
Thanks Bob, I am glad you are glad for me. I am glad you are happy with your choice of speaker as well. I suppose I found your comments to be out of the blue and pretty odd. Especially given the question asked, and my own experience. As for how much your commets have helped Brooks find a more ideal amp for his choice of speaker, that still remains to be seen.
Take care.
|
