2. amps-preamps
  3. 1074267466

Tenor Hybrid v. VTL MB-450 Sig.

I am planning on replacing my VTLs with the Tenor stereo 150 hybrid . Since I will not be able to hear them first and since they are a substantial outlay over what my VTLs are worth, I am hoping that some of you may have heard both. Would you mind characterizing the differences that I should expect to hear? I have Merlin VSMMs, a First Sound preamp, and an Audio Logic 24mxl DAC. Other amps that I am considering are the Joule VZN-100s, or a CAT JL2. My pre-purchase buyers remorse is that they will be better but maybe not commensurate with the extra cost. I am aware of the higher cost/diminshing returns reality. However, from what I have read, these hybrids seem to be a huge step up. If I audition a piece and hear an improvement that meets my personal cost/benefit ratio, I buy it. So, with no personal experience with the Tenors, I am finding it is a bit difficult to make the leap to buy the most exp. piece of gear in my system. Any input you may have is greatly appreciated. By the way, JTinn and I have had several conversations about this subject. He had been very helpful and generous with his time. In this post, I am looking for more of a comsumer point of view.
brooksl

Showing 9 responses by rcrump

rcrump
427 posts
 
Jim2, glad the size of the presentation of your Merlins is large enough for your tastes. Most of us prefer something closer to realistic size.......I'll stand by my comment as think the 20K could be better spent on full range speakers than a new amplifier......My speakers are not much larger than your Merlins BTW and they only go to the mid thirties, but have a closer to full sized presentation than your Merlins which are, of course, tonally accurate to 30hz......
rcrump
427 posts
 
If I were you I would put your money towards a more full range set of speakers and forget the amps for now as the VTL will get you down the road in fine style.....What is the nonsense about a restocking fee? You are auditioning a production amplifier, not custom goods........
rcrump
427 posts
 
Jim2, makes more sense to spend the dollars where it will do the most good.....Kevinkwann, to each his own and the Rockports tell me more about my designs than anything else I have access to.....I see by your other responses that you don't care for Kharma either.....I bet you won't like the set of speakers I have just traded a preamp for, Sound Lab M-1s......The nice thing is you don't have to, I do........
rcrump
427 posts
 
Jim2, I like a larger presentation than the Merlins will allow, but have friend locally that had the Merlins set up with some old Entec woofers that did just about everything correctly as the size of the presentation was life sized, about 30% larger than using just the Merlins.....As far as amps go I would go with the Berning or Joule OTLs and buy some subwoofers and still have money left over from the 20K or keep the VTLs and buy some JM labs......JM will get the weight and size of a piano correct......

I used the Sound Lab M-1s at CES 2003 with my home system and noted they were cleaner than my Rockports and were definitely full range and cut a deal with Roger West as he wanted a preamp.......If I can get the focus and immediacy out of the Sound Labs here then I will replace the Rockports and if not I will keep both.....Unfortunately, nothing is perfect on an overall basis as Kenkwann points out as few speakers get the leading edge right.......You pick your poison and live with it for a while.......
rcrump
427 posts
 
Venue information the Merlins get just fine........Size of presentation they don't achieve as the size of the presentation grows 30% when woofers are added.....Reason I no longer use subwoofers is they don't match with my amps in the high pass as you intimated can happen.....Someone once said "If you ain't got no bass, then you ain't got no space" and that is what Ryan was referring to, size of presentation, not venue information, but they are interrelated....Lots of speakers out there in the 20K range that will achieve a life sized presentation with the VTL450s and the reason I suggested another tact in the first place.......If I had a small room the Merlins would be on my short list of possibilities........I wish Merlin would finally get around to doing a subwoofer/crossover as Bobby has been talking about it now for well over five years......
rcrump
427 posts
 
Hi Bobbyapalkovic! I have not heard the latest wiring change you made to the VSMs, but really liked the combination of Ryan's VSMs and Entecs crossed over 6db per octave on the high pass at 100hz......The combination did just everything right.....Ryan used a huge custom high pass amplifier we at CTC built and it matched well with the amp in the Entecs.....Continuity was excellent as was the overall sound. Glad to hear you are going to unleash the woofers on the public one of these days and know you have been working on them for years.....

Swampwalker, I own TG Audio and CTC Builders. TG Audio manufactures Cables, AC Filters and Isolation Devices (footers). CTC Builders designed and builds a preamp and shortly a phono stage and does design work for others such as the JC-1 we designed for Parasound a year ago. We are currently working with a manufacturer on a digital playback system......TG has been around for 21 years and CTC for just over five years with my partners John Curl and Carl Thompson.
rcrump
427 posts
 
The large presentation is fairly easy to achieve as normally just need flat response to the low 30s is all........Dynamics are much much tougher to achieve as have both driver distortion problems and amps going into class B with higher order distortions to deal with... Now if you like focus and imaging all at the same time as everything else it gets even harder..... Have a friend with horns that get the dynamics right and not much else.....Best leading edge I ever heard, but no depth, size or focus.... Tough to get everything right is my point and don't think anyone has achieved a facsimile of live versus memorex.......Once in a great while the sound will raise the hair on my arms and think that is all we can hope for in the here and now......
rcrump
427 posts
 
Just gotta laugh out loud as it so hard to even get goose bumps.....Guess if it was easy it would take the fun out of it....If I get the size and venue right I feel I have achieved something with my gear and wires......
rcrump
427 posts
 
Jim2, Brooks1 lives near Chicago in one of the most affluent areas so doubt his room is a closet.......I always thought it was fine for a manufacturer to offer opinions regarding something he neither sells nor makes....Sorry to be so tasteless and I'll try to limit my comments to gear you don't own in the future.......
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