I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Hi Mac, If you do eventually get the 8 ohm DIs and are interested in hearing them with the Coincident Frankenstein MK II at some point let me know. Charles
Eric, I would imagine that there must be some sonic difference between the 4 and 8 ohm version. There must have been a reason that you brought out the 4 ohm version originally. I want to congratulate you for turning the high end of audio upside down. I heard your speaker at Teajay's house and it is amazing for the money charged. Is anyone showing the speaker at Axpona? Mike Kaye of Archon Audio is in Libertyville and not that far from Axpona. I wonder if he might be able to organize a listening session for those coming into town. At some point during the weekend. I can assure that people will laugh at what Eric offers compared to they will see at Axpona.
Thanks Charles. I almost don't want to hear the Frankensteins, I'm afraid I'll like them so well that I'll need to spend more money yet again!
Im not sure if I'll need the 8 ohm DI's. Teajay is having great success with the 4 ohm DI with one MZ2-S and I'll be driving my DI's with two of them bridged as monoblocks. That will give me 70% more output......not that 70% more than 1 is a lot!
The LTA specs show the MZ2-S output at 1 watt into 4 ohms and .5 watt into 14 ohm. Let's say that makes it .7 watt into 8 ohm. Is there any real advantage of .7 watt into 8 ohm over 1 watt into 4 ohm? I know Al will have the answer!
Mac, Good point in that the LTA amplifier 1 watt seems to have no problem with the 4 ohm DI per teajay. .7 watt to 1 watt is a negligible difference, but generally speaking a higher speaker impedance load is easier on the amplifier in terms of driving it. May be a moot point with the LTA ZOTL. Charles
Mac48025 4-20-2017 The LTA specs show the MZ2-S output at 1 watt into 4 ohms and .5 watt into 14 ohm. Let’s say that makes it .7 watt into 8 ohm. Is there any real advantage of .7 watt into 8 ohm over 1 watt into 4 ohm? I know Al will have the answer!
Thanks, Mac. And I believe I do know the answer. I believe the answer is that it is unpredictable :-)
It will depend in part on how the impedances of each of the two versions of the speaker vary over the frequency range, in terms of both the magnitude of the impedance (i.e., the number of ohms), and the phase angle of the impedance (the degree to which the impedance has a capacitive or inductive component, as opposed to being purely resistive). And on how the amplifier reacts to those variations.
It will also depend, of course, on whatever intrinsic sonic differences may exist between the two versions of the speaker.
BTW, concerning bridging the LTA amps, I infer from various statements at their website that when the amps are used as monoblocks they are not being used in what is usually referred to as a bridged configuration. They are being used with the two channels connected in parallel. What is usually referred to as bridging generally provides much more than a 70% increase in power capability (potentially/theoretically as much as a 4x increase, although most designs fall short of realizing that much of an increase), but is often reported to compromise the sonics of an amplifier relative to the sonic quality the same amplifier provides in stereo mode. Especially if the amp is driving a low impedance speaker. So presumably/hopefully that sonic compromise would not occur with the LTA amps if they are "bridged," although the resulting increase in power capability is not all that great. (A 70% increase in power is about 2.3 db).
P.S. to my previous post: What I suspect is likely to make a more significant difference in sonics when the LTA amps are "bridged" than the resulting power increase, with the difference most likely being for the better, is the fact that the amp’s output impedance would be cut in half as a result of the channels being paralleled. And that potential benefit can be expected to be greater in degree in the case of the 4 ohm version of the DI than in the case of the 8 ohm version. Higher speaker impedance makes amplifier output impedance less critical, everything else being equal.
I forgot about that Al. Mark of LTA explained that the amps aren't bridged in the traditional sense and while it may not produce as great of an output increase there's not supposed to be any degradation of sound at all......there's actually an improvement with better channel separation along with the power increase.
I'm thinking there's a good reason Eric chose the DI to be a 4 ohm speaker originally so I'm going to stick with what I have and hope two MZ2-S's will suffice. A few people have heard the DI's with the MZ and have been greatly impressed....the combination could be the audiophile bargain of the century!
I did buy the gloss black metallic upgraded pair that were on the specials page.I will get them next wed looks like after talking to the freight company. They were a good deal but I will see if I like them,I'm still a skeptical.
I have skimmed back through this thread trying to find any specific crossover points for the DI's but found no detailed info. I asked Eric over the phone where the tweeter array crosses over at and he told me 400hz.I would imagine the 2 mids don't play up as high as you might think.I would think the 2 10 inch woofers are probably below 250hz or maybe lower. I'm just trying to learn all I can about this speaker,If anybody has more info please chime in. Kenny.
Mac, I believe that you'll be fine with the 4 ohm version based on what's been reported on this thread. I know teajay has experienced many High quality amplifiers in his system over the years. His enthusiasm for the 1 watt amplifiers inspires confidence.
Tweeters cross over at 400 hz, wow! They're covering a very wide range and apparently doing so quite successfully. Charles
Oop's I forgot to add that the center tweeter is more a super tweeter,and is probably crossed much higher than the other 6. I think that might be a very good combo.I will be powering my set with one of three sets of class d mono's that I currently own,just recently sold all my class a and tubes and not looking back. Kenny.
I agree Charles.....teajay is a huge fan of the ZOTL 40 ( he put it in his reference system in place of a Pass Labs amp) and for him to prefer the MZ over it with the DI's speaks volumes. No pun intended 😏
I had a feeling the tweeter array was crossed over quite low as it handles a good amount of the high frequencies. I think Eric's crossover points and driver selection is a big part of the DI's magic. They are seamless from top to bottom. I don't much about the details of the speaker but after living with them for over 7 months now I can say they are the best speaker I've owned in my thirty plus years in audio. I think you're in for a very pleasant surprise Kenny!
I knew the tweeter array crossed over low, but 400hz? I think the resonant frequency of that driver is 580hz so not sure how Eric pulled that off. So mac, did you put your order in for the MZ2-S yet?
Mac, Teajay formed his opinion in the most definitive manner, he listened. I’m an advocate of high quality but lower power amplifiers. Admittedly though I remain surprised that the 1 watt amplifier ((6SN7) out preforms the 40 watt amplifier (KT77)) with this particular speaker. Teajay has both of them in his system for direct comparison. 1 watt! 😊 Mac I have much interest in your subsequent listening experiences. Charles
Looks like there is a scanspeak ring radiator tweeter that has a fs around 400 to 420 hz.Offcourse the DI's have a array of 6 tweeters,I think the middle one is crossed higher like a super tweeter would be,the speaker is a 4 way design.I don't know a lot about speaker design enough to grasp this quite yet but once I get mine I will figure it out.
I started into class d amps about 4 yrs ago with a pair of nc400,I have a pair of bel canto ref600m and a i have a new red dragon s500. I know that class d has come a long way in the last few years and it also has needs for improvements going forward.I know full well it is'nt everyone's cup of tea.I practically gave away several amps on the used market because they did'nt beat my class d amps. Recently a pass lab xa30.8 and first watt j2 as examples.I have been extremely blessed and owned all kinds of gear in my 30yrs in this hobby and it's still all about the music for me.There is a lot of hype in this industry and I like what I like if it sounds the best to me and invokes the greatest amount of emotion and involvement with my music. Just my honest opinion,Kenny.
The combo of the LTA Micro-ZTOL/ZOTL-40 offers some of the most beautiful sound, regardless of $, that I have ever had in my home system. However, when compared to the MicroZOTL used as an integrated amplifier driving the standard DI's the combo sounds almost " a bit rough around the edges" when it comes another level of transparency, finesse of timbres/tonality, precise 3D imaging, and overall liquidity/ease that brings you closer to the music in a relaxing way. The 6SN7 used as a power tube, at least the TungSol NOS Black Glass Oval plate, has the color and texture of a 300B, yet the speed/pop of a 211 to my ears. I can sit for hours on end and get totally lost in the music because of this combination of color/transparency/the ability to easily hear all the micro-details, and an overall "ease" to the sound. It's the best illusion of live music I have ever had in my system.
I too, still find it hard to believe that in my very large listening room, you can see a picture of my system on Tekton's website under the blog section, that as far as sane ultimate volume levels I play to get to the sweet spot on all types of music in my acoustic space there is no loss of overall dynamics, no attenuation either of high or low end frequencies, or that sense of aliveness found in music being played in real time is being lost at all. Now, remember this in the context, and I'm very lucky regarding my acoustic space and the synergy of the rest of the gear in my system that feeds the LTA amp before it drives the DI's to get these qualities I'm experiencing, so results might vary in each system depending on many factors. However, I would find it hard to believe that anyone would not find the LTA gear and the DI's just a wonderful combination and one of the greatest price to performance bargains in high-end audio.
Teajay, I'm very happy for you that you have discovered such a interesting system that I can see you are truly passionate about.I have read most of your reviews and I truly enjoy and respect your humble and passionate writing style.
I receive my pair of DI's next wed,I will give them ample time to see if I like them,still a little doubtful.I will give this thread a full review regardless of the outcome.
Just finished listening to a Schumann Carnaval recording/Naxos/Giltburg. This is THE BEST piano reproduction I have ever heard in my home. The clarity, air, weight, and coherence are just fantastic. Kenny, me thinks you will have to work very hard to not love this speaker.
I've had my DI's since early Jan, I know Eric mentioned in a previous post that the upgrades were available from the beginning but for whatever reason I was not made aware of them. How would one go about the upgrade? My boxes were demolished in shipping, plus I wouldn't want to ship them off and take a chance of damage plus the $$ involved. @mac48025 Another Detroit DI owner here as well.
David, I am using the PS Audio Perfectwave DAC and transport and think they sound awesome with the DI's. I also have the good ole California Audio Labs Sigma tube DAC and Delta transport and while not quite up to the Perfectwave standard they are quite close. Before the Perfectwaves I had the Schiit Yggdrassil which is an amazing sounding DAC, especially for the money.
hockeyme, im not sure I'd bother with the upgrades if I were you. Like you my boxes were beat up by Fedex but it sounds like they ship them palletized by freight now. You're welcome to hear mine with the upgrades but in a different room with different components it will be difficult at best to know what to attribute any sound differences to. There will be three DI owners that I know of in Motown soon as someone that came to hear mine is saving up to order a pair.
Of my many amplifiers, I own a modified Citation 12, putting out a real 1 watt of class A power ( based on a Nelson Pass design ). It drives my modified Klipsch LaScalas fairly well, sounding excellent. But, I can easily clip it, depending on the music I am playing. I know a tube amp clips differently than a solid state amp, but, find it hard to believe what I am reading. Just my voice on it. MrD
My boxes were also beat up, despite being on pallets (I think).
Recently, Eric's website made the upgrade much more prominent on the main DI page, which will be helpful for future purchasers.
His recommendation to upgrade was very soft, when I discussed the Double Impacts with him.
I second what mac48025 says and would not go forward with it.
In fact, I would apply the savings from the cost of shipping and the upgrade towards a pair of future Tekton speakers that might be a better fit / major upgrade for you, given Eric's creative proclivities.
I've already spent more on upgrading the chain than the DIs, since getting the DIs!!!!!!!!!! Not good,,,,,, and very good -- well, until my wife gets wind of my buys.
Other Double Impact or Tekton owners??? (Regarding DAC pairings)
Regarding DACs, I second Gary's Border patrol, Exogal Comet, Gustard, and top of the heap AQUA LaScala. I wish I could hear the DIs in Chicago at AXPONA?
A left field comment prompted by the above comments. Was going to use fed ex but for various reasons went with the standard carrier....and my boxes were almost pristine. Maybe not be worth the extra $ for fed ex.
Quite an interesting thread. I have pair of Tekton's Impact loudspeakers and also a pair of the Goldenear Triton Fives. While I am not an audio engineer, I have been able to extensively A/B the two in my system and can say that to my ears the Impacts are significantly superior. The bass is materially tighter than the Goldenears and there is a coherence and "presence" to the music that the Tritons simple cannot compete with. The best way to describe it is that the impacts sound like real music and the Tritons sound almost veiled in comparison. I have to say that, given the price of admission, the Impacts are breathing air well above its pay grade. I would imagine the Double Impacts are doing the same.
@klh007 : I'm not familiar with Gustard, so I will check them out. As you know, I have the Exogal Comet. Aqua is outside of my budget, but would be terrific. Good to hear you also like Border Patrol.
@mac48025: I almost went with the PS Audio flagship a few years ago, but couldn't bring myself to spend that much on a DAC, despite the overwhelming positive coverage. Perhaps I should look into demo/used units. I haven't been following PS Audio. Are they still committed to upgrading the software and modules? It's been out for awhile...and I'm assuming they might have another flagship in the wings? I'll PM you if I have any other questions...don't want to get off of the DIs.
The Gustard X-20 is a favorite of Ric Shultz of Electronic Visionary systems (tweakaudio.com), a real modder, the new OPPO Sonica DAC uses the latest Sabre 9038 chips and Dan Wright has a tube mod out, and the HOLO Spring Kitsune tuned R2R DAC is very nice as well.
i hear you, I couldn't see paying those prices either. When the Directstreams came out there were a lot of used Perfectwaves available at good prices and that's how I was able to afford them. There still might be a decent number of used Perfectwaves for sale.
Courtesy of Mark and Will of LTA, I got a chance to hear the Micro-ZTOL/ZOTL-40 pair at AXPONA, just a sensational sounding combination that bested a SS pre/power easily, more open, faster, better dynamics, and the ability to portray emotion in a voice. Well built, and a true bargain in the high end arena.
Herbie's Audio speaker isolation Gliders are in-system now. I went with 8 Giant Threaded Stud Gliders, 1 inch length, screwed in flush with the Double Impact's base. I did not use the nuts since they left a gap between the base and the isolation device.
Manh, do they make the speakers easy to move on our hardwood flooring!
I did notice a sonic difference, though I would label it as "one of more," a bit more in this case... rather than one of' an order of magnitude' difference.
I wanted to utilize the isolation platforms I've been using for years now. In addition to sonic improvements, they just happen to look really good with the Double Impacts, at least to my eyes, and provide an 'early warning' to my son : )
So, I also ordered 8 Giant Fat Gliders. Robert Herbelin didn't feel strongly about doubling up, but advised me to experiment. I used Blu-Tack between the Gliders and the isolation platform.
@klh007 had recommended I try three configurations. I skipped one : )
It's amazing what our senses are capable of....I had one speaker with the Threaded Gliders screwed in (on the floor) and the other with the Glider - Iso Platform - Threaded Gliders. My ears just wanted to listen to one speaker. It was so very clear and easy to pick up.
Again, not an order of magnitude difference. Just more. And a lot more with the doubled up solution. And more rightness / righteousness musically.
Everything has tightened up. Taut is the word I would use, along with greater fullness (body) which seem oppositional as elements. Better separation and depth into the music, more detail and clarity. More fun, more enjoyment.
The Herbies Giant threaded gliders are perfect for the DI's. Like David said its not a huge sonic improvement but one nonetheless. What I like best is the ease of moving the speakers. Never thought of doubling up with the Fat gliders, but since mine are on carpet I can't imagine them helping......but who knows?
I got a chance to hear the DI and LTA combo at Mike's place. His main room is absolutely cavernous, yet the speakers were able to play cleanly with either the ten or one watt setup.
After hearing over a hundred rooms at AXPONA last weekend, I was totally impressed with the DI as driven in his system. Dynamic, holographic imaging and depth and a fast but non fatiguing sound.
My tastes run toward speakers such as electrostats, Maggies, Raidhos and Harbeths. The DI's compared extremely well with all of them.
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