Hey david_ten,
Thanks for the kind words.
Would you please share with us some details about how your DI's are performing for you! I surely would like to know what you think. |
You are welcome, teajay. Keep up the good work over at hometheaterreview and elsewhere.
We are settling into our new home and my system is in the process of being set up. At this point, the room is brand new to me and my ears...and likely needs some tweaking. Once I'm able to dial things in, especially with respect to the audio equipment chain, I will get back with impressions.
The Double Impacts sounded good out of the box. I now have 10+ hours of play-time on the units and they continue to sound good.
For those that may be curious, I have the Exogal Comet Plus - Ion duo driving the speakers. This is a temporary setup.
Enter your text ... |
David, Why is the well regarded Comet/Ion combo only temporary? |
I should have clarified. Temporary for now. May end up being the permanent pairing.
And to re-clarify: You are absolutely correct... The Comet/Ion is an excellent combo and I think highly of it.
A few reasons:
1. I have not set up my office system yet...and it may be a better fit there.
2. I've got one : ) too many amps on hand...which means I will be doing a shoot out to see which amp pairs best with the Double Impacts.
3. The Tektons are going to serve 2ch and HT duties in our main room, so I prefer to have an integrated solution for multi-channel playback.
Listening to Consortium Vocale Oslo “Exaudiam eum” (Gregorian Chant for Lent) on Tidal Masters right now. Sounds amazing via the Tektons driven by the Comet/Ion combo direct via USB from a PC.
The Double Impacts have over 20 hours on them at this time.
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David, The Comet/Ion combo is difficult to integrate into a HT scenario, but I use them in a 2ch and TV situation and voice are still correctly placed for TV sources, and very clear/transparent in the room presentation. What are your amp contenders? I can't figure out any way to incorporate the latest HT codecs and use the Comet/Ion except the RCA inputs and have an A/D conversion?
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007,
My Comet - Ion duo has been used for TV / Movies in a 2Ch setting extensively and performs remarkably well for running Optical out of the TV (cable coax TV feed and streaming Netflix, Amazon, etc.).
As you know, the combination solution also limits the components.
Having said that, I did run the movie 'Interstellar' to get a feel for the Double Impacts out of the box...and that demo led me to email Eric to let him know I'd be moving forward with the DI Center 7.
As for the other amps: I have an untested / never run Moon Neo 330A and a NAD M27. A SST Son of Ampzilla II (W4S version) was previously driving my 2ch audio only system with a Schiit Yggdrasil as the DAC (not the Comet).
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David, do you prefer the Comet to the Yggdrasil? I have the Yggy myself and am curious about other dac's.
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Hi 333jeffery,
PM me with any additional info you are looking for on the comparison so that we don't steer away from the Double Impacts discussion.
Best, - David. |
Hello All -
The Tekton Double Impact SE's have arrived! We only have a few hours on them, so still playing around with some break-in hours and setup.
More later on our findings...
Cheers!
Mike
Audio Archon - dealer
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Mike, can you comment on the differences from the originals? Drivers, crossovers, cabinet, etc. |
Would also like some thoughts on the different amps you have tried.
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Hi Guys,
Of course I stopped by Mike's (Audio Archon) last night to hear his pair of DI SE speakers. First, they looked very sexy indeed with their piano black lacquer with embedded sliver particles. Secondly, with no hours on them, cold out of the crates they sounded great! I know the question you all want to ask, do they sound significantly better then the standard DI's that I reviewed? Well, I can't answer the question right now. Even though Mike was using the linear Tube Audio combo ( the 10 watt EL-84 amp, instead of the ZOTL-40), same cables, and digital front end as my system I did not have enough listening experience, along with that the DI SE's not yet totally settled -in and Mike will work out the perfect placement of them in his room to come to any rational decision. I will have to wait for my pair of the SE's to compare them in the same system/acoustic environment to the standard model, which I still have in the house, which will lead to a full review on them for hometheaterreview.com.
Corelli, Mike just called me with great excitement with the the news that he had just driven the SE's with the MICRO-ZOTL preamplifier/amplifier ( all of one watt) with out any problems regarding volume levels and it was a thing of beauty! He uses 6SN7 Tungsol black glass oval plate 1940's NOS tubes in the MICRO-ZOTL, so I can imagine the beauty of the timbres and the 3D space he was hearing. |
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or invite me to Libertyville! |
The double Impact speakers will be in my near future. I do already have the ZOTL40 and MZ2-S. I concur the MZ2-S with the NOS Tung Sol black glass oval plates are special in this preamp/ amp.
i also powered my 93db radial speakers with the 1 watt and it was surprisingly loud.
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An update....
Swapped out the Exogal Comet Plus - Ion duo today.
The chain driving the Double Impacts is:
Tidal via PC USB out (direct; no USB optimization inserted) > Schiit Yggdrasil (DAC) > HeadAmp GS-X Mk II (Preamp) > Simaudio Moon Neo 330A (amplifier).
The cables and components have all been boxed for over 4 months. The Moon 330A has never been used prior to today.
The components, obviously, need to be run for a few days. As an aside, per Simaudio: "The performance of your 330A will continue to improve during the first 300 hours of listening."
Remarkable, remarkable performance despite the upstream chain being idle for so long.
Now the work begins....Getting the room set up and figuring out the positioning of the Double Impacts.
In a week I'll swap out the Moon Neo 330A 125W/8ohm 250W/4ohm for the SST Son of Ampzilla II (W4S) 220W/8ohm 350W/4ohm.
For comparison reference the Exogal Ion is 100W/8ohms and the Comet - Ion duo were fully 'broken-in.'
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So do the SEs have the same drivers? |
Hello All -
I just talked with Eric from Tekton. The pair that we have are more of a pre-release SE. The reason is, the SE is a different speaker and will have completely different drivers. Some of the custom drivers are not yet available. The pair that we have has the new mid-woofers, but the woofers and tweeters are the same as the original. The SE also includes an upgraded crossover, internal wiring, binding posts and premium finish.
Eric confirmed the price will be $6000 for the SE.
Sonically, I am very impressed so far. Today, I am actually driving with the LTA Micro ZOTL2 (with a whopping 1 watt of power) directly to the DI-SE...with amazing sound! Who knew 6SN7's would be a great power tube? I am not saying they won't sound better with more power, I just wanted to run the experiment to see how (and if) it would work...WOW!
More later...
Mike Kay
Audio Archon - dealer |
Mike,
You are referring to your speaker pair as the DI-SE when it appears that they are not.
Will this not be confusing? It is to me.
- David.
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Mike,
please se keep us posted on your LTA MZ2-S / DI SE prototype combination. I have the the DI's and love them and will be getting the MZ2-S and ZOTL 40 as soon as I'm able. Being able to drive the DI's with just the MZ2-S until I can get the ZOTL 40 is very intriguing. Any idea what sound levels you're able to obtain with it? You're a distributor for LTA? A trip to Chicago might be warranted to hear them together. I don't imagine you have any MZ2-S's available for sale?
very much looking forward to Terry's comparison between the DI and DI SE. I find it difficult to believe they will be much better but if they are I'll be ordering a pair from you.
Thanks for for your updates.
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Hi David - No problem...and regret any confusion. I will stop posting about them until we get the full SE.
Thanks for your comments.
Mike
Audio Archon - dealer |
Hi Mike,
Please post!
I just want to be sure I know what you are evaluating.
Thanks,
- David. |
@mac48025 @audioarchon @teajay and other Double Impact Owners:
Need your guidance with setup positioning of the DIs.
I can realistically only place the DIs about 2 feet away from the wall behind them (wall to back side of the speaker).
I might be able to use something like the Herbie sliders to bring them out to 3 feet for listening sessions...but I’d rather they stay in a fixed position.
I have between 3 and 4 feet from the side walls (side wall to closest speaker side).
There is 10 feet between the speakers (center point to center point) at present.
Currently the speakers are not spiked. They are standing on Taoc shelves (18 X 20 inch) which are laying flat on a wood floor.
They are toed in slightly.
Seating position is approximately 9 feet from the midpoint between the speakers.
Any advice?
Thanks.
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Has anyone heard the smaller $1900. Impact? |
I was outside grilling a bit ago and noticed how loud the music was outside and how I could feel the bass and it was slightly rattling the cedar shingles. Could hear every vocal. Crazy ... my last speakers I would get ear fatigue way before I could hear them. These don't sound overbearing at all when I am sitting in front of them. Better watch it so I don't go deaf! Or wake up the creep. (The creep is my kid😀) |
Just spent about six hours at Mike's listening room and had a amazing experience listening to the DI"s being driven by the Micro-ZOTL which delivers a "Whopping" 1 watt! However, that one watt was created by using the 6SN7 TungSol Black Glass Oval Plate NOS 1940 in a SET format.
Without any difficulties either in volume levels or Macro-dynamics on many types of music the DI's delivered stunning beauty in timbres, 3D meat on the bone imaging, a floating sound-stage in which the speakers completely vanished and finally a purity that I don't know if I had every experienced before. All on ONE WATT!
For david_ten
1) Well, if 2 feet off the front wall is the best you can do, so be it. However, if you can get closer to 3 or 4 feet you will reap many more benefits from your DI's.
2) Put the spikes on your speaker, it will make a BIG difference, regardless of the platform/board you have them on.
3) You got it pretty right regarding the space between them, with a slight toe-in and where you sit. |
david_ten
One correction on my last post for you. I recommend that you experiment closing the distance between your speakers to seven feet from the center of each speaker from ten feet. |
Hi teajay,
THANK YOU!
I just re-positioned.
The best I can do is 3ft off of the front wall. Currently it is limited by speaker cabling length, however, a simple re-route will fix that. Mainly it is keeping my wife happy with the layout. She finds the speakers to be ’massive.’ Which they are. : ) She calls them "the second wall."
Your corrected distance between the speakers was noticeable immediately.
The best I can do there is 8ft center to center. The limitation is the media console.
Leonard Cohen has landed on stage, from up above!!! Images are much more solid now. Major improvement.
I’ll re-consider spikes. The reason for bypassing them is my 3 yr old son. Primarily safety reasons for him. Way secondary are the obvious damage related ones to the DIs or any other equipment and items they might take out.
Speaking of spikes...any recommendations from owners of the DIs???
I’m not sure if anyone has done a head to head comparison of spikes vs the other options like Herbies, in terms of stability and of course sound performance. Let me know if you have feelings or opinions about this???
I know that you are sold on Sistrum Platforms. Would they keep the DIs stable / impervious to a 3yr old’s determined efforts towards keeping Eric Alexander’s creation honest with the laws of entropy and gravity?
Appreciate the guidance, teajay.
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david_ten,
If you go back a few pages different floor interfaces were touched on. If you have a concern with your little one, you might consider what I used--soundocity steel outriggers. This broadens the foot print and increases stability. Good for both safety and sound. I used large rubber rubber feet to interface with my vinyl plank floor. (It's a nice look as well). check out their web site and if you have questions I can give you details on a less expensive/more rigid way to accomplish this than using their stock offerings. One last thought--if you really want to hear your DI's soundstage open up, they also make outriggers on rollers. Might keep everyone happy. Any sonic sacrifice would be overshadowed by the huge increase in soundstage.
Mike, may have to tag along with mac to check out your LTA gear some Saturday.
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David_ten,
Congratulations on your new speakers. I use the Star Sound Apprentice platforms beneath my speakers and they're truly an asset. However as the speaker is supported by only the upward facing spikes the speakers can be knocked over without significant force. IMO they could be toppled by a determined 3 y.o. So definitely sonic benefit but perhaps not the best option in the presence of small children or larger pets.
Charles |
Hi David_ten -
I had a similar question for Tekton a few days ago. Eric told me the following:
He is not a big fan of having his speakers far apart, as it robs some dynamics. At the shop, he listens to the speakers about 6 feet apart center to center. (6-8 feet center to center works very well)
As far as distance from the speakers, start at an equilateral triangle. This is not the best final location, only a starting point. Then keep moving them back until images start locking in. I have found a factor of about 1.3-1.4 from the speaker to your ear/head works well. This means if your speakers are 7 feet apart, the distance from the speaker to you will be around 9-10 feet.
Toe-in...Eric told me he uses this as sort of a tone control. The more you toe them in the hotter/brighter they get, so you can use this to get the right amount of highs that work for your room and listening preference.
When I first, pulled the speakers from the boxes I wanted to be able to move them around easily, so the first few hours I did not have the spikes on them...I was disappointed in the sound. Putting the factory spikes made a huge difference (and I'm sure there are other solutions that can give even better results).
As a dad, I would not put the speakers on a non-fixed type of platform/stand/spikes/etc with a 3 year old running around. The speakers are just too big and heavy if something happens.
Happy listening!
Mike
Audio Archon - dealer |
To mac48025
I'm very interested in the fact that you owned DIs and Legacy Focus at the same time. I owned Focus 20/20s. I loved the bass but found the highs to be a bit bright. I really miss the bass! I am debating trying the DIs but only if their bass rivals the Focus in impact and depth and the highs aren't so bright. I'd like to here more from you on those two issues. Has anyone else had a similar opinion of the Focus 20/20s? Do the Newer Focus sound similar? Thanks.
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@corelli: Thanks for the guidance on considering Soundcity Outriggers. I've read the entire thread a few times now : ) and I did bookmark their site. I've had my eye on Sistrum for years now, but the cost is higher and I'm concerned about tip-over using them. Soundcity and their multiple configurations may just be what the tip-over doctor ordered....
During my previous reading of the thread, I didn't get a feel IF and by HOW MUCH each owner preferred the final option they went with vs the stock spikes (with the exception of Sistrum). I'm curious about this. If there aren't significant differences then that would be good to know as well.
I'm thinking of using Herbie's sliders under the rubber feet, vs going with wheel casters. Thoughts?
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@charles1dad
Thanks. The Double Impacts have been a very good decision!
And thanks for letting me know about the Starsound / Sistrum tip over issue relative to having a 3 year old loose in house. It's what I was worried about. So unless I hear otherwise from another owner of their platforms, I can cross them off for now.
In a previous life, I had a cat launch itself off of one of my Gemme speakers which was on a spiked outrigger. They are heavy and have a much lower center of gravity, yet over it went. Sid is still living large in NY and is reminding me of him, with fondness, as I'm looking at my dented Gemme.
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@audioarchon:
Following teajay's guidance, the speakers are now 8 feet apart (center to center). I will not be able to get them any closer together unless I completely pull them out into the room for experimenting purposes.
Listening position is 9 feet from the center point between the two speakers (approximately 10 feet to the center of each speaker). I had to pull the couch back to accommodate the speakers being another foot out into the room. Easier to do with a couch than the DIs. Not an ideal position for the couch but it is easy to move since I have sliders (for hardwood) under the feet.
Toe-in is nearly in alignment with each ear, while seated at the center point.
Thanks for reinforcing the need to be safe with the little guy (and thanks to the other posters for the same safety advice). I've used the Taoc shelves for isolation from the flooring here, as well as in the past. They have worked well. I will not know any differences and improvements until I try something different...something to look forward to!
Thanks, Mike.
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David, I vote for Herbies big sliders under the DIs, stable and allow easy positioning. |
David,
Both Terry and Michael have given you excellent advise on speaker placement. Sounds like you have things pretty well worked out. For me about 5 1/2' apart has worked best with my listening position about 6 1/2' back. I was quite surprised having them that close together ended up being ideal in my room. I started about 7' apart and moved them in 6 inches at a time until the speakers totally disappeared. I then moved them in 1" increments until they sounded best to me. I like Herbie Audio Giant Threaded Gliders under the speakers.....quite stable, sound great, very easy to level and move the speakers. They will sound very good placed just about anywhere but if you can give them room from the back and side walls they will reward you. Bass traps can really be helpful along with some diffusion at the first reflection points on the walls, floor and ceiling. Your wife will be rolling her eyes about now :)
bradcor, compared to the Legacy Focus SE's I found the DI's to be much more dynamic, less bright and the bass as good, if not better. That's saying a lot as the Legacys have some impressive bass to them. The Legacys highs may have been a bit airier but the DI's tonal balance was more to my liking. Both speakers are seemless from top to bottom. I fully expected the Legacys to be my two channel speakers with the DI's going into my theater system. After a couple of days of going between the two it was readily appearant that the DI's belonged in my dedicated listening room and I sold the Legacys. This isn't a knock against the Legacys, it's just that the DI's are THAT good. |
Mike of Audio Archon,
The Tektons must have the threaded spike holes filled or bass will escape through them and as you found out they don't sound very good. I made the same mistake with my first pair as it's easier moving them without the spikes. That's why I like the Herbies threaded gliders.
Please tell me what LTA gear you have available to audition. I'd like to hear the MZ2-S, ZOTL 10 and ZOTL 40......or two ZOTL 40's as Monoblocks! I'd be willing to make the trip from Detroit to Chicago to do so.
Come me join the fun corelli, are you close to Chicago? |
I just spent four hours listening to the DI's being driven only by the Micro-ZOTL preamplifier/amplifier, instead of the ZOTL-40 Micro-ZOTL combo in my system and it significantly out preformed the pair!
Across the sonic board- sound-staging, imaging , timbres, etc. the Micro-ZOTL was better, but what really shocks me is that the overall dynamics and the quality of the bass frequencies are better then the forty watt amplifier. As I said when I heard this in Mike's system it might be the "purist" reproduction of music I have ever heard. Well, it is a SET using the great 6SN7 TongSol Black Glass Oval Plate NOS 1940's tube, which I find to be one of the most beautiful input tubes of all. Now I know what it sounds like as a power tube.
So, at least with the DI's the LTA preamp/amplifier is all you need to get beautiful reference level quality sound without out any downsides regarding volume levels/macro-dynamics. The only other factor that Mike and I discovered is that Micro-ZOTL and DI's combo sounds great with a reasonable good DAC, however it jumps up to another level when being driven by the Concert Fidelity-battery powered DAC.
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Teajay,
Given the 1 watt power limitation of the Micro ZOTLhow does it present complex symphonic orchestral music? I could imagine that with acoustic jazz (what I listen to 90 % of the time) it could be pure organic bliss. This suggests that a high quality SET of 6 to 10 watts may be a very viable option. I'm surprised that the DI is so easily driven given its 4 ohm nominal impedance.
Charles |
Thanks for the update teajay. Like Charles I'm surprised the 4 ohm DI's could be driven by 1 watt. I'll have to give it a try though. I find my 24 watt Decware to sound sublime for 95% of my listening but crave more volume for live recordings. Guess I could use the micro-ZOTL for most of my listening and either switch to the ZOTL 40 for those times I want more volume or forgo the ZOTL 40 all together and use my SS theater system for louder volume listening. Using only the micro-ZOTL would save me enough money for some sweet NOS tubes for it. This hobby never seems to lack for options! |
Hi gentlemen,
If you think you guys are surprised, just imagine my shock at hearing this the last couple of days!
As far as playing "complex symphonic orchestral music" how about Copland's "FANFARE FOR THE COMMON MAN" at over 100Db with prefect clarity and room pressuring bass/dynamics or Radiohead's ARNESIAC with my very large room being shaken because of the bass lines.
So, mac48025 I don't know how loud you like to play certain music, but for me the Micro-ZOTL provides as much volume I need on all types of music. I agree with you Charles all types of SET/low watt amps would work wonderfully with the DI's. Mike is going to try his Concert Fidelity 300B amp in the next couple of days.
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Color me shocked......but I'm ordering a MZ2-S soon along with some NOS Tungsol Black Oval Plate 6SN7 tubes. Over 100 db? That's much louder than I need. Can you imagine a reference level pre/amp/speaker system for less than $6K total? Hopefully my PS Audio Perfectwave transport and DAC will suffice as reasonable good to get the most from the micro ZOTL/DI combo.
Thanks again for sharing teajay, this is exciting! |
This is a very intriguing discussion. Mac says his 24 watt Decware falls a bit short reproducing certain live recordings and believes more amp power would be beneficial.
Teajay achieves 100 db SPL (That’s cleanly delivered) from a (signal tube not your typical output power tube) 6SN7 !!! This occurring in his large listening room. What is going on ? I don’t doubt teajay’s findings but this is a quite unusual situation. Can a stout power supply account for "all" of these findings?
Charles |
teajay, you keep danglin' that Micro-ZOTL bait in front of me. What an affordable way to experience LTA for so much of the music I enjoy. Then I can leave the more bombastic moments to my Marantz amp. After all, no amp can do it all, and isn't variety the spice of life?
Speaking of variety, teajay, have you ever listened to the Audio Note EL34i C-core kit?? There's a part of me that longs for a whiff of solder. (fond memories of dynakits, hafler gear, etc.
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The Concert Fidelity 300b SET vs the LTA ZOTL 40 amplifier is a compelling comparison of very different topologies.
Charles |
david_ten
You can purchase the outriggers alone for a mere $20 each. They have a 1/4-20 thread as I recall so you can custom attach many options.
I remember 35 or so years ago attaching casters to my early edition Magneplaners. Worked great!! Up against the wall when not in use and easily rolled out on hardwood floors for a listen.
Safety for you little one trumps everything else. Speaker position trumps speaker/floor interface (imho).
I would go with whatever gives you the best combination of easy mobility and stability (i.e., no wobble)
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mac, live in grand rapids so a road trip is possible.
Then again, if you pull the trigger first maybe you can tell me what I'm missing!
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My dear friend and AUDIOGON member Allan, he was the one who hosted the last Chicago Audiophile Society meeting at his house to show case his pair of DI's, was patiently shocked at what he heard tonight with the setup we have been discussing recently. He brought over Upscale Audio's Speaker Setup CD that has a wide range of music styles, all recorded at a reference level. He listened to the entire CD and then grinned/smiled and clapped over what he heard. He was still shaking his head over, "how could one Watt" deliver the volume levels and ass-kick overall dynamics/punch and room shaking powerful bass that he had heard and felt on many of the cuts off this CD. He also believed it was the best sound-staging and placement he had ever heard.
Allan, said, " nobody is going to believe us for two reasons: 1) one watt cannot do this. 2) to inexpensive, both the ZOTL and the DI's don't cost enough for the high brows in our hobby."
You guys get it, and we can reap the joy of beautiful music without depleting our $ resources. |
Hi corelli,
I have never heard that specific Audio Note amplifier. I have experienced both AN of England and Japan very expensive amplifiers and really don't think they are worth the $ compared to both Concert Fidelity and LTA pre-amps and amplifiers. The legendary Kondo was some what of a let down for me when I finally got to hear one. |
