Showed a photo of the DI's to one of Agon's most respected members and one of the things he said stuck with me. This member had a feeling that there might be phase issues. I am too new to the hobby to be sure what this might be or how such an issue may sound. Am hoping to travel to Houston for an audition at the dealership and want to make sure I know what to listen for in this matter. Are their particular recordings to use that may be able to test this possible phase problem? Many thanks.
OMG, the BS lobbed at Tekton speakers by arm chair speaker designers has been incessant, and mostly wrong. Comb filtering / phase issues are incredibly easy to detect. Just move. Move around and listen for a consistent stereo image as you move left to right. Also compare the clarity and detail up close to the speakers vs. your seated listening location. Also move above and below the tweeter axis. All speakers change as you move around, the point is whether it’s still pleasant and acceptable to you. How do you listen? Do you sit in one place for hours, or do you put on dance music and move around the room? Questions appropriate for all speakers.
If the speakers were as bad as claimed, just moving your head a couple of inches would cause severe and unpleasant differences in tonal balance compared to being in the "sweet spot."
All multi-way, non-coaxial speakers suffer from phase, lobing and combing somewhat. Move above or below the normal listening axis (usually the tweeter) and you’ll hear this. How severe this is will determine how pleasant your experience will be, so speakers try to design speakers so that as you go off-axis the output rolls off consistently or at least smoothly across the mid to treble.
I personally find the Tekton solution of using a 7 driver mid/tweeter array is a fairly elegant solution, and IF PROPERLY IMPLEMENTED, will create a virtual coaxial mid/tweeter with similar benefits to those of modern-day KEF speakers.
Like all speakers though, compare your audition space to your own ideal placement. Many speakers sound great when 5’ away from all walls, and then cramped at home.
I know you are a 1 seat kind of guy, but we all move around a little. Some of the worst speakers for this are Sanders’s flat ESL designs. No comb filtering issues, since it is a single panel, but the sweet spot is a 1mm cube. Your neck and shoulders hurt after half an hour from holding your head so rigidly in place. :)
So it’s worth listening for a reasonably comfortable listening window.
The one issue with phase problems, to me anyway, is if I'm sitting in the "sweet spot" and just move my head a few inches left or right, a single vocal or instrument may move several feet in any direction. (usually left or right). That creates a huge break down of the soundstage for me as I find it quite annoying. My latest speakers which are Vandersteens don't have this problem thank goodness.... Tim
It's quite easy to hear this problem. I'm curious though, which speakers DID show this issue for you? This reminds me of the old Polk with their cross-feed drivers.
The one issue with phase problems, to me anyway, is if I'm sitting in
the "sweet spot" and just move my head a few inches left or right, a
single vocal or instrument may move several feet in any direction.
(usually left or right). That creates a huge break down of the
soundstage for me as I find it quite annoying. My latest speakers which
are Vandersteens don't have this problem thank goodness.... Tim
A large relocation of images when you move your head is often related to speaker separation - not saying that yours is excessive, simply an observation that it is most often due to wide separation.
It is so interesting that we hear yet another comment, indirectly once again, from an "experienced audio dude" saying Tekton speakers have issues. However, once again the experienced Agoner has not heard, touched, smelled, groped or measured the speakers.
My goodness this is so sophomoric. This is proof positive to me that Eric has something so revolutionary that the status quo audio crowd is coming unglued. This is not aimed at the poster as I assume he is making an innocent post.
Hope I did not leave the wrong impression!!! The opinion offered was not a statement of belief but rather an impression or concern based solely on the image. The member is solidly behind the possibility of me taking a trip to audition them and would be pleased as punch if they compared favorably to the speakers that he has recommended at my price point(5000$ for used)-Dynaudio. Confidence C1 Platinum and Dali Euphonia MS5. Speakers that he has actually heard. Am also in contact with a seller that has a cosmetically challenged pair of Vienna Acoustics Liszt for sale. These three have a larger list price than the DI's but from what I have read many have traded in expensive, well regarded speakers for the Tektons. As soon as I can sell my Salk Sound Song Towers I should be ready to pull the string on a new pair. Just wanted to be prepared for my audition. Thanks for the info on how to detect phase issues, I have a single chair listening spot now and hope that this will not be a problem.
Eric. The past speakers I've had with the type of phase characteristics I mentioned were Legacy. I liked their sound and still do. Just had to dial in speaker location and toe-in to minimize. Also minimize the movement of my head while listening. Although this could be tedious at times. Hornguys, My speakers are approx. 7 1/2' feet apart and 9 1/2' from the listening position. Also with a slight amount of toe-in for proper center fill. I don't feel this is to wide of spread by conventional standards.... Cheers, Tim
Oh, yeah, I could imagine. They like to use vertical AND horizontal arrays. It's a shame though, they seemed to take a lot of care to control dispersion and timing. Sucks to know they had issues like that.
The only pair of speakers that made my neck hurt when listening and owned for the record shortest period of time were Magnepan MMGs. My hardwood floor is covered with tiny holes from the spikes just because I had to move the damn things around so much to get the right placement. Bless their soul folks who love these puppies.
@trytone - Who is the dealer for Tekton in Houston? Well, I know Dave at Raven Audio a bit outside of Houston, proper, otherwise I wouldn't have a clue.
Are the Liszt speakers in Houston, too? If so, I've heard those. heh. They wouldn't hold a candle to the DIs. Just saying.
I've heard two pair of DIs in the Houston area and nope, no phase issues at all. Oddly enough, at Raven Audio the speakers were about 5ft apart, and at a buddy's house they were about 12ft apart. There was nothing but solid center no matter where I placed my head. I just sat there and enjoyed. and I know phase problems, because I have a friend with some Eggleston speakers that have phase issues out the wazoo!
Indeed it is Raven Audio I hope to visit if I can ever sell my Salks. Am interested in what the DIs do better than the Liszts. Can you shed any light on what those who have heard the DIs feel is a lack of refinement? Many thanks, LS
Without knowing the crossover frequency and if all tweeters are driven equally and in phase it is hard to comment on phase of the end result.
The tweeters appear arranged in the space that a 9 inch cone would occupy. So in theory it will radiate approximately like a 9 inch cone but without the characteristic cone breakup and steep roll off at mid range frequency and without any decent LF capability. Since treble frequencies have wavelengths of around 1 inch then there is for sure going to be both constructive and destructive interference between the drivers. However, having such a large quantity of drivers it is quite possible that the interference patterns will tend smooth each other out (at an angle and frequency where one pair of tweeters is interfereing destructively another pair is constructive).
Overall I would expect or guess a fairly even "wall of sound" with a dispersion that is not far off a regular individual tweeter with a possibility of some comb filter effects at the highest frequencies which may give the treble a large spacious feel.
7 tweeters of 6 or 8 ohm variety might present an interesting load if run in parallel and crossed over too low - therefore I expect it is crossed over quite high or above the point where the tweeter impedance typically rises to about 25 ohms or more.
As many have commented, this is a speaker that must be heard but in the absence of availability at local dealers for audition, it would be nice to see some measurements showing off axis response.
Seems like an innovative variation on the Bose multi driver approach and I think Macintosh tried speakers designs like this too....
I'm amazed at how "phase issues" and "comb filtering" have dominated the discussions about these speakers with few actually understanding what it means, or how you would measure it.
The proof of the design is in plots of the on vs. off axis response. Stereophile does these routinely in the vertical and horizontal axis. This is an incredibly easy problem to hear and measure and therefore prove whether the Tekton's are any better or worse than other speakers.
I truly feel bad for the designer who has had to defend his designs against mostly incompletely informed critics.
Before jumping all over people for wondering and asking questions, perhaps some might want to reread the original post and remember what this forum is for.
You bring up some very good and valid questions some that I personally asked Eric at Tekton about when I was looking at the double impacts and the answers I got from him have been proven to me that he was correct and not a bs artist,after I've had my pair for 4 months now and I have listened to them everyday and also I have done quite a bit of measuring as well.
I'm just a happy owner and I truly love the sound I'm getting and my knowledge of this unique design backup to me the sound I'm getting.
There is a few specs about this speaker that I would be willing to share on this thread or others,I'm not a professional reviewer by any means and It's not my place to broadcast specs and details. I really like all of Nelson pass amps from my very first one which was the Threshold 400a to my Sit2 and F7 that I own today and I could tell you lots of detail about them but It's there again not my place.
Anyway here is a few details about specs of the Di speaker and I will let you make up your own mind.
1. All 7 tweeters are 4 ohm. 2. Center tweeter is a super tweeter playing 10k to 30k. 3. The six outer tweeters play down to 680 Hz. 4. The 2 mids play up to 2k 5. The 2 woofers are crossed at 250 Hz with a 2nd order crossover. 6. The true,in my listening room efficiency is 95.3 db with a 1 watt input at 1M distance playing the industry standard 1k frequency.
Some folks think I'm very biased or a fanboy and I'm ok with that I'm just trying to share actual real info and my opinion of any product that I either own or that I have heard.
Kenny: This is very interesting and somewhat different than earlier descriptions of the 4-way crossover. From this I assume there are substantial ranges of the mid frequencies shared by the mid drivers and ring tweeters. If so, this makes Eric's design much more sophisticated than I had earlier thought.
Now, to a related discussion of soundstage...
Listen often to orchestral music where an accurate soundstage is key to enjoying the experience. Have been using a method suggested to me by Rory at Emotiva, one of their speaker people. He suggests you angle the speakers inwards so that they converge on a spot one foot in front of your nose position when seated.
Am doing this with the DIs and the soundstage is very convincing. Panning from left to right is continuous and the orchestral personnel appear close to their miked position.
Give it a try if you are looking for a seamless, left-to-right soundstage.
Have also noted that the speakers are surprisingly coherent when heard in another shared room. Although you do not hear the same accurate assessment of the individual instruments, the overall sound remains pleasing indeed. Do not know if this is volume, frequency response, or some other characteristic.
AND, I've got to ask...is it KDude66 because the first 65 were already taken? (LOL).
I haven't changed my original description of the Di speaker I just gave a few more of the specs.
You are correct the mids and 6 outer tweeters share frequency output from 680Hz to 2K and then the 6outer tweeters play up to 10K. So I guess I could say that the majority of the all important presence range 1K or 2K to about 4K is covered by the 6 outer tweeters only and I think that is a key aspect in this design for the sound that they achieve. Meaning,having very good clarity and enough detail but also being delicate and sounding more natural then any speaker that I have ever owned and rivals many high end speakers that I have heard.
Our room which is 20x25x9 ft has a open kitchen adjoining and I have also noticed great coherent sound in that room, I personally think It's just a byproduct of having a speaker that sounds so real and natural to begin with.
I hope I have helped you better understand this speaker,
Hey guys, I'm new here, just wanted to give my 2cents on th di's, I've had a few pretty decent speakers in the past,(fried valhallas, Anthony gallo 3's with sa amp, dunlavy sc4/a's) a few of my favs, anyway all sound great, but my never ending itch bought me a pair of di's, I'll admit I was sceptical but man! These things do everything good, better by far in every regard than any of the speakers mentioned above, I've only had them for a few days now and I'm already saying these things, call me crazy but I just go where my ears take me
That's close to my room size and they do very well. I have early and secondary reflection points treated. Where big speakers are concerned they have turned out to be very room friendly.
"Before jumping all over people for wondering and asking questions, perhaps some might want to reread the original post and remember what this forum is for."
Eric( who now appears to be the DI flag bearer) seems to get all twisted when anyone slightly challenges his thinking on Tekton,shame because im guessing his postings have turned off potential buyers as much as he has helped make sales.
Very interested in these speakers, but I wish there was a brake down of speaker measurements by a third party to see the speakers performance. Looks like the woofers are Eminence or B&C, not sure on the tweeters, (have to do more digging). Would be nice to see the crossover design and what components Eric is using. Anyone gone through the speaker to see what makes them tick?
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