Technics SP10 MK3 Restoration

@noromance
Thank you for the suggestion.
I went to his website and sent an email but I got it back saying undeliverable...
I then filled out the form letter on his webpage hopefully that goes thru and he is still in business.

@lewm
I very much appreciate your offer. 
Have drooled over your plinths pics many times.
Will try getting something built and if I am unable and you still would like to help me I will definitely take you up on that offer  :)

Was out for the weekend.

Everyone, thanks for all the informative posts... so much to read here, again thank you!

@chakster 

If you like boxes like this then I doubt you have a good taste.

If you read my post correctly above, I have already said that I dont like panzerholz, timber, plywood etc because it is not dimensionally stable.

If you like boxes like this then I doubt you have a good taste. 

As Salvador Dali said - "It is good taste, and good taste alone, that possesses the power to sterilize and is always the first handicap to any creative functioning"
 If you actually read my post above I make my own plinths using either ebonised bamboo or engineered stone - nothing like the Woodsong/Artisan Fidelity plinths. 

You can continue to post your absurd about vintage MM cartridges, but I’ll tell you that when SP-10mkII was in my system my cartridge was this ZYX Premium 4D SB2 (it’s $5k modern LOMC) and Airy 3 with silver coil (another $3k LOMC). At the same time in MM arsenal these two beauties with EPA-100. Am I missed something? 

Yes, a decent turntable.

I would not waste much money for such a box, whatever material. Why not using a vibration platform with it, Herzan or similar. Makes more sense

No its not. the Artisan Fidelity plinth is a sophisticated constrained layer plinth using panzerholz and other materials and includes a drain block for the main bearing.

As always you have nothing to add @dover, and you always arguing about something that everyone know without your remarks. Links posted in all my replies in this thread.

When I said "just the box" I mean the design (the way it look), construction layers pictured in the article I posted earlier in this thread and everyone can see different layers.

No doubt the $10k plinth should work effectively, but it must look good too for this price at least. That was the argument and I explained why.

If you like boxes like this then I doubt you have a good taste. This is another bad example with those ugly baths around the tonearms and the drive pushed down into the plinth. OMA solution is so much better with the armboards on the corners. Their Garrard plinth is so much better (in terms of design) because they do not try to push the Garrard down into the plinth and do not make those bath around the tonearm, you know what I mean? OMA did the same with Garrard plinth and Technics plinth. The argument for a perfect look is to leave the Technics drive on top of the plinth (not trying to push it down) with the arm fixed on the same level (on top of the plinth).They did it, but ONLY after the metal chassis around the platter was completely removed, this is perfect. And OMA designed similar plinth for Technics.

I am not gonna discuss the "sound of the plinth" or the "sound of the drive" with anyone on this forum, this is the most boring discussion. I am happy to discuss design, because some of the most expensive high-end products on the market is almost always the ugliest in terms of design.

its a weetbix sandwich that uses magnetic steel plates, wrapped in thin alumium foil.

The "aluminum plinth" on Luxman PD-444 is not thin and not foil (!), the thickness of aluminum all over the cabinet around the sandwich is nearly 5mm, to see it you have to remove the sideboards, but nearly the same thickness of aluminum used for LUX amps and you can look at this "aluminum foil" (as you call it). The aluminum plinth is not supposed to be a whole piece of aluminum to weight a ton that impossible to ship. However, the Luxman chassis is metal and "armboards" are metal, and slide for armboard is metal, anyway this is not the subject of this post! The OP asked what I use and this is the only reason I mentioned Luxman, because I SOLD TECHNICS more than 3 years ago! You don’t own Luxman turntable and you don’t like Technics or any direct drive, so why you are in this thread ?

No - the plinth in the picture is a slate plinth, not graphite.

Did you ever check the links I posted to OMA site where you can read SLATE PLINTH!? So what you’re arguing about? Everyone can read it’s a slate plinth. BUT "Graphite" (look on this plinth) in my terminology is the color, same as OMA Graphite Mat and Graphite headshell. (it’s not just grey as you can see).

From my conversation with Jonathan (OMA) gerarding "graphite plinth":

"Double layer slate plinths are $3500, custom designed for whatever arm(s) you want to use. Single layer are $2750. Two arm plinths add $750 to either version."

The plinth construction and materials used can materially affect the overall sound of a turntable motor.

If you like ugly looking overprised plinths you can discuss their "perfect sound" with your audiophile friends.

I would rather go to buy more records to spin on my pair of Luxman PD-444 without thinking I have to change the plinth.

Regarding a plinth for SP-10 series I believe a custom made $300 baltic birch plywood plinth is enought. I want to admit that stock plinth for Denon DP-80 or Victor TT-101 are more than enought too, they goes for $300 and can be restored (waxed or veneered) by any pro carpenter.

I do understand that you might struggle to hear any difference with your knackered old 80’s MM’s that you think are state of the art.

I do understand that at your age you might not hear what I hear at all. This is far more important problem than a choice of cartridges. In fact one of my turntable with FR-66fx and FR64s tonearms are for LOMC only.

As a typical retired ex high-end dealer you can continue to brainwash your non existing customers in your dreams that to hear something good they must spend $10k for a plinth and another $10k for a LOMC cartridge. I’ve heard it before. And you are absolutely right that I refused to buy even $2000 plinth for my ex Technics, instead I bought two different PD-444 turntables with built-in plinth and I’m happy. My teak plinth was quite nice to hear everything I want to hear from my analog rig and genuine obsidian plinth wasn’t any better. Technics can be used without plinth on AT616.

You can continue to post your absurd about vintage MM cartridges, but I’ll tell you that when SP-10mkII was in my system my cartridge was this ZYX Premium 4D SB2 (it’s $5k modern LOMC) and Airy 3 with silver coil (another $3k LOMC). At the same time in MM arsenal these two beauties with EPA-100. Am I missed something?

@chakster 
Your posts above 07-24/25-2021 would have to be some of your most ill informed posts ever, even by your own modest standards.

Artisan fidelity plinth for Technics is also “just a box” (even if the wood is nice). 

No its not. the Artisan Fidelity plinth is a sophisticated constrained layer plinth using panzerholz and other materials and includes a drain block for the main bearing.

OMA Graphite plinth are beautiful and designed by professional designer with a good taste! 

No - the plinth in the picture is a slate plinth, not graphite.
Not sure if you are aware but one is a metamorphic rock with structured layers, the other is a mineral, a form of crystalline carbon quite soft.
The properties of each material are quite different.

Basically a plinth is just a plinth, 

No. The plinth construction and materials used can materially affect the overall sound of a turntable motor. I do understand that you might struggle to hear any difference with your knackered old 80's MM's that you think are state of the art.

Luxman PD-444 comes in super heavy aluminum stock plinth 

No, its a weetbix sandwich that uses magnetic steel plates, wrapped in thin alumium foil.

You seem to listen with your eyes, not your ears, and prognosticate at length on items you have clearly never heard and have little or no understanding of, as evidenced by the posts above.

 

I think the Individual in the Link knows a thing or three about P'holz.
Worth a read on what is referred to as Tank Wood (which their used term for P'holz)

Mono & Stereo © 2021: Interview with Rainer Weber of Kaiser Acoustics

" I have much better turntables for my needs (I designed custom made racks for each of them), I happy that a question about plinth does not exist for me anymore (my Luxman PD-444 comes in super heavy aluminum stock plinth"

@chakster 

The Luxman PD 444 do NOT have a heavy aluminum stock plinth.
The weight is two thick steel plates
sandwiched over a piece of bloody particle board,  then epoxy glued to a thin sheet of brushed Aluminum for dress. Most of that 50 plus pounds is the steel.

Besides didn't you say forget the table it doesn't matter its only the cart to worry about? Yet here you are with more bloated bragadocios nonsense and incomplete incorrect statements paraded as fact..... I owned one 40 plus years ago and even I can remember its make up ....

I dont like plywood or panzerholz because they are dimensionally unstable in the long term - warping, expansion, contraction.

I have had excellent results with Engineered Stone ( 95% plus quartz for premium quality european product ). There are many kitchen benchtop manufacturers with the requisite CNC machines to ensure accuracy at modest prices, particularly if you use offcuts which most have from large jobs.

I have also used Ebonised Bamboo ply, this is a high density bamboo ply ( over 50% heavier than standard bamboo ply ) - it is 50% harder than maple. In this case I did the CAD drawings myself, and used a CNC contract cutter to do the cutting. You need very sharp quality router tips or blades to cut this stuff cleanly.

Both of these are relatively modest in price if you do the construction yourself after outsourcing the cut materials.

Jim Campbell will make you a slate plinth in PA for about $800. 

For looks alone, the Dobbins plinth is gorgeous. It looks like slate (which Chakster likes to call "graphite") but I think it is made from a synthetic material that has some of the properties of slate/graphite.  For what it's worth, Rich, and I think I have mentioned this before, by ordering my slate slab direct from the quarry, where they honed both sides to perfect flatness and even champhered the corners so as to give it a nice look, and then having it cut to fit the Mk3 by a water-jet company also in PA, I was able to make my slate plinth for about a total of less than $600.  Then I had the solid cherry base made by a carpenter for another few hundred bucks.  I bolted the slate and the wood together for max CLD effect, but gravity really does most of that work. I can help if you want to go a similar route.

Porter’s plinth is the ugliest box ever (imo), even if technically it’s great (here is the article), I believe they are NOT available commercially and they are very expensive too. Artisan fidelity plinth for Technics is also “just a box” (even if the wood is nice). The ugliest thing on all those plinths is the armboard, I must say I don’t like the armboard on cast iron plinth too. And this is the worst plinth I ever seen in my life.

When it’s expensive it must be beautiful at least! OMA Graphite plinth are beautiful and designed by professional designer with a good taste! The armboards are beautiful (round shape), especially the version with technics drive mounted without square chassis, in my opinion the armboards must be made from the same material as the rest on the plinth and everything must look like one piece. What is the ugliest on the stock Obsidian Technics plinths is the armboard frame and cherry wood in this frame. All the plinths that just imitate the original obsidian design are terrible in my opinion. What is the reason to hide Technics drive lower in the plinth if it can be just on top of the plinth just like this (sp20) or like this (sp10mk2).

All commercially available plinths are extremely expensive from $2k up to $10k (just for the plinth alone).

A custom made plywood plinth should not cost more than $300 in my opinion, veneer with exotic wood is optional, some top quality lacquer is also optional. It can be automotive paint also. Basically a plinth is just a plinth, I would never pay more than $700 for whatever plinth.

This is not Technics, but the plinth design is super stylish (look here) in my opinion and it’s Graphite.

When Technics square chassis is removed this shape of the plinth with round armboards is nice in my opinion.

Presumably, you are referring to the cast iron plinth offered by OMA. Just to be sure there is no confusion, I was referring to the slate plinth that has been offered by OMA for many years. I personally would have misgivings about mounting an SP 10 Mk3 in a cast iron plinth, because of the massive magnet that is the rotor.  It would take some convincing for me to believe there is no deleterious interaction between the iron plinth and the rotor that might affect torque, for example. On the other hand, this is such an obvious issue that I have to believe OMA did their homework a priori.

Don't see what's so great about the Oma plinth besides the atrocious price.  My vote would go for Albert Porter's panzerholz plinth capable of two arms.

My advice is don’t overthink it. Nearly all the materials discussed can yield excellent results. I do rate constrained layer damping as a plus, and the mk3 needs high mass, IMO. I used slate and cherrywood. My plinth weighs about 90 lbs I think. ( I never weighed the assembled unit.) My slate comes from the same quarry used by OMA.

You may want to check with Chris at Woodsong. I know they made SP-10 plinths, but I don't know if they are still doing that as I did not see any on their website.

I have a Woodsong plinth on my Garrard 301.

https://www.woodsongaudio.com/contact

I think that OMA only sells the ridiculously expensive caste iron plinth ~$10K and even if that was ’affordable’ I don’t think I would want it.

Not only, the Graphite plinth was their previous model, it was about $2k when I asked. You can always ask them using this link. But anyway, it’s inspiration at least (for design). They are expensive, but this one for example is not simple design, it’s two layers of Pennsylvanian Graphite .

What are you using now for a turntable?

I sold my Technics turntable about 3 years ago, but on the image you see a $500-700 teak wood plinth. Last year I put together a system for a friend, custom made Baltic birch plywood plinth was made locally for under $200 for his Technics.

What am I using now? I have much better turntables for my needs (I designed custom made racks for each of them), I happy that a question about plinth does not exist for me anymore (my Luxman PD-444 comes in super heavy aluminum stock plinth on suspended feet, each aluminum armboard is adjustable for a given PS distance and can be used for almost any tonearm on the market).

The Material Panzerholz is widely discussed.
There is a reasonable amount of Data and descriptions available to be reviewed to show the properties of the material.

The use of it as a Plinth Material is well documented.
The impression it can make as a Plinth Material is subjective and not all reports are going to show it as a preferred choice.

I lean toward Densified Wood as a Plinth Material and have been demonstrated Plinths produced from it used on a few TT's.
I have heard it as a Material in both Lamination configurations.

P'holz is supplied by Delignit, it is available in a few versions of manufacturing processes, where the Laminations are built up from different quantities of tiers per 25mm.
Delignit also offer other Densified Wood Product that have additional tiers per 25mm than P'holz is offered with.
A Densified Wood for a manufacturer is usually to be produced at close to 1400Kg per Cubic Metre. 
   
I use a Partially Densified Wood on a Direct Drive TT and have a Densified Wood Material available to produce a New Plinth for when the next Trials are due to commence. 

I feel confident your interest in Densified Woods will be quite valuable.     

Not very thorough was he.... ;0)

Sounds like a concourse service Rich , perhaps an Albert Porter Panzerholz Plinth Level 2.

chakster

I think that OMA only sells the ridiculously expensive caste iron plinth  ~$10K and even if that was 'affordable' I don't think I would want it.

I think the Steve Dobbins slate plinths are up there too in price, plus I have read a few threads where recently people have preferred other materials to slate.

Hoping to find someone who could at least CNC the separate layers of a plinth out of high quality Baltic Birch with a top plate out of Panzerholz and let me finish it.. or better yet... and I could put it together and finish it.... whether or not I can find such is another story  :)

What are you using now for a turntable?

I would like to have a 2 arm, constrained layer plinth built and have the motor unit mounted ’naked’. I am presently searching somewhat ’affordable’ plinth builders and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

What is affordable?
In my opinion the most beautiful plinth for SP10 series is OMA Graphite plinth, but it was about $2k. Check this old thread.

This is very nice OMA plinth (2 arms) for a Technics with removed square chassis.

I’m pretty sure OMA double layer plinth is very expensive, but single layer graphite plinth is super stylish, look at this one and imagine SP10mk3.

Probably you can’t make a graphite or panzerholz plinth cheap, but you can make a plywood plinth very cheap (and veneer it over if you like).

This is my ex SP-10mkII in a custom made Teak Wood Plinth.