I agree; when you're alone pull them out 3 ft. (really exaggerate the position) and see how they sound.
Herbie's has a solution for moving speakers away from the wall during listening sessions...
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/spkrfeet.htm
Look at the "Gliders" to put under speakers. I use them with my hardwood floors. Different types for with and w/o spikes. |
Pictures of Setup - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p85esxsugw5svb4/Y_FSpWNMv1 |
20", 80%, I say go for just a few more; to shoot for 100% and act like
nothing happened. :^) |
Hmm, not a bad idea. I currently have the speakers 20" away from the wall and toed in. It's helping a lot. I'm listening at low levels because its late. Tomorrow I'll see how it sounds at higher levels. I actually dont mind the look of it. The lady hasn't actually notices yet. If she's ok with it I'm leaving it! We'll see what's next. This just may have solved at least 50% maybe 80% of my problem. |
I don't see cables even comming close to fixing your problem. Doing it that way is like buying an EQ with only 1 fixed setting. If you can't pull them out more into your room, I would suggest you try adjusting the EQ in whatever music player you are using. If you roll off the bottom end that should help alot. |
Samhar: Any suggestions with wire? I'm new to cables. How should I start? |
Mattmiller: What is Morrow skr cable? |
Thanks for posting the pics !!!!! That is a challenging position/room that room acoustics treatments are worth trying. Try wire first and hear what happens !!! |
Thanks Newbee.
I just brought out my speakers about 6 inches and toed them in heavy, and yes, it did help a lot with the bass. It actually doesn't look so bad. Let's see what she thinks. But wow, if the only thing I get out of this is to hear what it should sound like, it will help me moving forward.
I could get used to how this looks :) We'll see what she thinks. |
Deetothevee, I hate to say this, but considering the fact that you cannot change speaker placement, I think your ability to significantly alter the excessive and, I assume loose, bass will defy significant alteration just by changing 'stuff'.
You might pick up an SPL meter and a test disc w/ 1/3d octave test tones and measure your set up to verify/locate the area of boost and the extent of the boost you are trying to cure. Do not overlook my comments about the listening position - you can also reduce the bass some by putting your chair in a null in the bass frequencies.
There are two other possible solutions. 1) Use of a sub placed away from the wall/corner, and a cross over so you can roll off the bass (excess) from your main speakers. I don't know enough about a sub's implementation with your integrated though - it might not be possible for you.
2) If you are using one source for most all of your listening you might put a 1/3d octave equalizer between your source and integrated and reduce the bass hump there.
FWIW, if you are going to consider using acoustic products to reduce bass be sure to identify where the excessive bass frequencies are. Medium to low bass frequencies are difficult, if possible, to control in a small room (if at all) in a home, especially when it is a 'shared' room.
Changing wires is for fine tuning adequate systems but not for making major alterations in frequency aberrations due to room dimensions (your is one of those as well) and speaker/listening positions.
It is possible that if you can accept listening at low levels that the excessive bass may not appear so excessive. At low levels the apparent bass response of many systems in many rooms falls off appreciably (that is why pre-amps used to have tone controls, to boost the bass).
I hope you can find a solution, but it won't be easy and will require a compromise. Good luck. |
Mapman:
Hahaha...you guys just don't quit. I don't want to move the speakers because I like the way it looks. I love hi-fi but it's not my life, I still want it to look like a home. When I have a dedicated room I can do that. |
Samhar:
I'm guessing this is what you were referring to from the review you posted:
"I mostly listened to the Be-718s in my smaller (9' by 15' by 7.5'), acoustically treated listening room, but I did set them up as well in my larger (13' by 25' by 9') main room...They locked in with the smaller room amazingly well, not only "disappearing," ...
...20" from the front wall and 19" from the sidewalls. That left about 4.5' between the speakers and put them 9' from my listening position."
This kind of positioning is just not going to happen for me. Unless I put them against my window which is just not an option for us. It has to fit our life, not be our life. With that in mind, I'm open to other suggestions. |
Maybe experiment with position of speakers when no one else home, just as a test, not permanent, just to get a feel for how that works. Then play something the lady likes that sounds really good, and maybe you can negotiate something. :) |
Here are pics of my setup. I can not move the speakers. After a lot of moving around this is where my lady and I agree to have everything.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p85esxsugw5svb4/Y_FSpWNMv1 |
This might give you some ideas, goes along with Mapman's suggestion relating to power !!!! I agree with Newbee's placement and tube suggestions and Mattmiller's wire statements. Where are your speakers positioned in relation to the front and side walls? System pics are helpful so people can observe the whole set up !!!! http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/508ush/index.html |
Thank you everyone! In regards to positioning, I can play with toe in some more and see if that makes a difference. But I'm very limited in changing positioning, this set up is in my living room in my condo with my lady. It's already a blessing she's ok with having the primaluna on display on top of our fireplace unit. Needless to say, changing positioning is not an option.
I actually have a set of Sovtek tubes that I haven't tried yet that came with the amp. I'll have to check what kind they are.
My stands are 24 inches high. I plan to eventually get the RWS 708 Usher stands which should tighten the bass and is adjustable.
Great ideas!!
Mattmiller -
Are those brands you mentioned known for reducing bass? I do love sweet midrange which is why I got the speakers and amp. So I don't want to lose that. I like more bass but just not too much. Also, what are your thoughts on Audioquest products? SO you think transparent cables is my answer? Not looking for cables that "reduce" bass?
You mentioned bi-wiring. Isn't that only possible when you have 2 amps? I have an integrated. |
You have to get rid of those cheap cables and get something more solid core ..NOT stranded monster cable! ... THIS will make the biggest improvement in tightning up that bloated non defined bass you speak of. Dont even think about tube rolling until you fix this first. I would try Kimber,Morrow Audio, Nordost. Your speakers are awesome, hook them up with proper set of Bi-wires from Morrow Audio and your jaw will drop.Get a really nice Digital cable from SIGNALCABLE.com . Get some Morrow skr cable and A pair of Interconnects from the dac from Morrow as well . Pay for the break in and get some of the most amazing TRANSPARENT cables you will not be sorry. |
Location, location, location! Don't spend a dime on 'stuff' until you have set up your speakers and listening chair as best possible. There have been a lot of posts on 'proper set up' and should be in the archives, both here and on AudioAsylum. Putting the speakers against the wall and or/a corner ALONE (And it appears you have done both!) could be causing your problem, but placing your listening chair is very important as well. Locating it in a bass node could cause excessive bass, albeit over a small frequency range.
Another issue to consider it the tubes you are using on the Primaluna, both small and large(power) tubes, which can make a big difference. FWIW if you haven't already tried them try some good linear 6550's or 6l6GC's, especially the latter if you want less bass but a good linear tone. I've used SED's and they are not fat! You might also try some Sovtek 12AX7LPS which have a fine mid-range and HF tone but are also not fat in the bass. |
If options for locating the speakers to help tame bass are not practical or sufficient, and speakers must remain closr to walls and corners, then adding bass traps to the corner(s) is another thing to try.
Only after all practical placement and treatment options are exhausted would I start to think about changing anything. Some different ICs/wires might produce some change as well, but I would not rely on those as a primary solution to address bass issues.
A 250w/ch or so Class D amplifier might be an option to consider if all else fails to get that particular tube amp and speaker combo sounding the way you want. Tube amps and smaller speaekrs/monitors like those that attempt to deliver extended bass out of a small box/package is often not the ideal combo, but addressing room acoustics first in various ways as described to the extent practical might help to make things work out better. |
Probably a lot of room acoustics involved. Moving the speakers 2-3 feet or more out away from the walls, especially the front wall, and corner(s) should help tame the bass I would think. Should also help with imaging and soundstage. Experiment with teh speakers at different locations. Even subtle changes in location can have a big effect on bass.
ALso how high off the floor are the speakers? If closer to the floor, getting them up higher on a good pair of rigid massive stands might help.
Toeing in speakers so tweets face more towards primary listening position might also help tilt the tonality in the direction desired away from more bass. |
