Synergy

Made me think of The Maestro, on Seinfeld.

Since I switched cartridges from the Hana ML to the Clearaudio Virtuoso I’ve been playing records almost exclusively. Previously I streamed most of the time. I don’t know if analog sounds better but I’ve become hooked on it.  I must say it’s very frustrating.  Half the records I play.sound like crap but the other half are wonderful.  Digital is far more consistent sonically but records hold a certain fascination.
Now I can’t wait till the Maestro arrives.

Get a room! 🙂

@rauliruegas 

I did not say it was neutral, which I prefer. Someone with a system that tends towards sibilance or someone who just likes bass might like a cartridge like the Charisma. It is also a fun cartridge because of it's dynamic capability. 

I try to buy cartridges that are better than what I had. Sometimes it does not work out that way. Lately, I have had my share of problems with cartridges, A noisy cartridge, a cartridge with an angled cantilever and a cartridge with a SRA of 89 degrees unloaded! Only my Trusty MC Diamond has been without fault of my current cartridges. I tend to use it on classical music, string quartets in particular. All my current cartridges sound more alike than different. You have to split hairs to find a sonic difference. Their individual signal to noise ratio in combination with my phono stage is way more obvious. The difference is recording and pressing quality is way more obvious. I will admit that I suffer from expectation bias now and again.  There is always a "best." It may change on a continual basis, or not. But, I also admit that I am a sucker for a new cartridge. As a kid I would save and save until I could afford a new cartridge and it was always a banner day when I got one. If I misbehaved my dad would take my cartridge away for a week or two. Finally, i managed to scarf away a second one and I would use it with headphones until I was out of the doghouse. It was still punishment and more than likely one of the reasons I hate headphones.

In the meanwhile RV is thinking we need to go out and do a joint or gummy or something. 

@rvpiano  : Classical orchestra recording scores almost always are a challenge for cartridge/tonearm/phono stage.. I love those kind of recordings where several of them I experienced live.

R.

@mijostyn : " It leans towards the bass.." that says to me not a good or to good performer.

No, you are unstable because you are as you said still in the " trip ". Every 2-4 months you post that " this or that is the Best cartridge ever heard " ( yes , years ago I was there. My posts and even threads confirm it. ) ). Never say different but the best that it just does not exist. Sorry for my reply, no pun intented now it was enough and you are a wise gentleman.

R.

I really think I have a logical solution to my problem.

Simple solution: Play ONLY records that sound good.  ‘
In classical that’s very hard.  A lot of great performances have mediocre sound. 
I would have to relinquish my audiophile label and just listen to the performance.

I don’t know if I can do that

I got a very good trade-in deal with my Virtuoso, so the Charisma would be more than twice the price.

@rauliruegas 

I beg to disagree. I'm unstable because I have two daughters. They make me listen to Primus. 

@rvpiano The Maestro is more or less neutral. The Talisman V2 Gold is very bright. If you really want "not as bright", go with the Charisma. It leans towards the bass and is VERY dynamic. The Firebird will come roaring to life. A friend has the one I owned and loves it. It has a Gyger S stylus on a boron cantilever same as the Goldfinger. It is a dual magnet design so separation is very good. Some people think it is made by Audio Technica. I was assured it is made in Germany. It does have a similar design. 

I just ordered it.

Thanks for the confirmation.

@rvpiano  : Yes, the Maestro ( that I owned ) is better quality performer and you should be really satisfied with.

R.

@rvpiano Enjoy your curiosity about different Interface available and discoveries to be made. 

The reason I’m leaning towards the Maestro is that basically I like Clearaudio sound.   I just want a less bright presentation which the Maestro seems to provide.

I think my problem is that I listen predominantly to orchestral music. 
‘Almost everything else sounds wonderful to me.  It’s the sound of those massed strings that are hard to reproduce.  I wouldn’t be so compulsive if I listened mainly to jazz, folk or rock.  They’re no problem. .I’d be a very happy camper.  
I have to suspend disbelief when I listen to an orchestra.  VERY few recordings capture the true sound of an orchestra. It’s almost a vainless pursuit!

@rvpiano : Less rthan a month ago you posted:

" Voila, the system came to life after break in like never before. "

" My system never sounded so good. "

"  I might  have been a little premature in my evaluation.  Most things really sound good.  "

" Maybe being too compulsive! ", extremely compulsive when your  Clearaudio is almost new and you can be sure that needs a luittle more time and after that time you need to make a check up of the cartridge/tonearm set up and start a proccess to fine tunning it through palying with VTA/SRA, VTF, etc, changes.

Before spend in a new cartridge as fast you want maybe after that fine tunning if you are not satisfied then an IC cable could help about.

Any new cartridge will " present " to you a different MUSIC reproduction approach but not necessarily a better one.

Many times the brigthness comews in the recording and we have to remember that live MUSIC has brigthness too.

Anyway, up to you.

R.

mijos: " the critical importance of CONTNUITY for the MUSIC can flow in natural way as in live events. "

I think that your mind unstability comes from that system " unstability " : "  thus the odd combination ", that's part of the system unstability.

Never mind, it's ok with me.

R.

@rauliruegas 

IMHO the only continuity in this mess is the music. Everything else is expendable.

We have had many complimentary and useful discussions Raul, so please do not belittle yourself.

All roads lead to Rome:-) 

@mijostyn 

Thanks for the suggestions.

 I will investigate.

@rvpiano 

Then go with The Voice or the Aida, both are high output. I ran the Voice for about a year. I gave it to a friend for his Birthday after I got a phono stage that ran low impedance moving coils only. The Voice is an excellent cartridge and it has no major flaws. I have a Soundsmith Hyperion MR now and it is easily one of the best cartridges I have heard in a while, better than most and second to none. It is tied with several cartridges IMHO. From a technical perspective it really has no peers.

@mijostyn  : " I am still enjoying the trip." I'm not questioning you bu it's weird that a gentleman as you ( I consider you as an experienced audiophile. ) and till all your audio years " still in the trip " and in the orther side it's weird rtoo that you comment nothing about " continuty ". No matters what tube signal proccessin is different to the SS alternative where each one has its own signature same happens with digital/analog domains.

Continuity it's not if " this or that " is better in a frequency range: NO, continuity is not a a tree but the whole forest.

Anyway, only a simple opinion that obviously can't help you.

R.

@mijostyn 

The SoundSmith sounds very good. However I’m a little concerned about the low output.  I know I can boost it with my phon, but  I think I would prefer a higher output.

@avanti1960 

I know the Hana is very highly regarded.  I think that I might have messed up the original setup by the technician, causing a drop in performance.

@rauliruegas 

When I went digital, everything including the turntable was processed digitally. The only thing added since then (1995) was digital RIAA correction. 

Living is learning and as you move along the audio evolutionary curve you learn about component interactions and problems you did not expect that require solutions. 

My main speakers will be bi amped not tri amped. This allows me to get rid of the RC network between the two transformers and use an amp that will handle the very low impedance of ESLs at high frequencies. I know of no better amp to drive the midbass and midrange of ESLs than the Atma-Sphere MA 2s. They are capable of putting more power into ESLs at those frequencies than any other amp. The problem is they have an output impedance of 1.7 ohms and the ESLs drop well below that at high frequencies thus the high frequencies roll of after 12 kHz. It is a very popular combination usually only affordable by older gentlemen that have already lost their hearing above that frequency. Only solid state amps have the ultra low output impedances that will drive ESLs at high frequencies effectively, thus the odd combination.  

You may have arrived at your destination. I am still enjoying the trip.

@rvpiano 

The Maestro is an excellent cartridge and build quality is beyond reproach ,  I do not think it is a big enough upgrade to justify the expense. I think you should wait a bit longer and shoot higher up. I have owned a Charisma. It is very dynamic, great for rock, but it has a dark character with a slightly recessed treble. The Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC is the same price and a better cartridge. It tracks better is more neutral and just as dynamic. It is also much less expensive to rebuild. If you require a high output cartridge the Soundsmith Voice is the one to go for. The Nagaoka MP500 and Goldring 1042 get honorable mentions. 

@rvpiano 

the clearaudio is a decent cartridge and i suspect the soundsmith retip and cantilever (ruby?) gave it a performance boost.  

however the hana should be competitive.  could the difference be that your phono preamp is better suited to MM cartridges?   could it lack the gain and loading adjustments needed to make the hana really sing? 

The Head has evolved, we started with the impression made through exchanges of certain devices used for replaying a Vinyl LP, and now the Thread is a:

Not a Anologue Bass vs Digital Bass vs Silver vs Copper vs Streaming vs CD vs Vinyl vs SS vs Valve vs Near Field Live  Omni Directional vs Recorded Directional, etc, etc.

The list of trivial concerns, valuable time is spent on pondering, is seemingly futile as a pursuit.

There are plenty of entertaining moments being denied, with this type of energy usage. 

Dear @mijostyn  : " My mind changes all the time and in it's own little world it is entitled to do so. ..."

Yes as many of us but you changed overall suddenly in the last 2 years and I want to share with you my take about.

In the past I experienced in my system different amp/speaker set up: bi-amp with SS in the low bass and tubes in the other frequency ranges, tri-amp with different SS amps, etc, etc and through those first hand experiences i learned the critical importance of CONTNUITY for the MUSIC can flow in natural way as in live events.

You made some changes in your system ( it's not a critic. ) where from my experiences and point of view you broke that continuty in your system: first you choosed to handle the subwoofers in the digital domain ( crossover. ) against the other ranges in pure analog ( analog bass is different to digital bass ) and after that you choosed to by-amp using SS along tubes and latter you posted that now you are thinking to tri-amp with a SS in the HF range.

All those goes against continuity that's the foundation in MUSIC other than the bass range.

Only saying.

R.

I’m probably switching to the the Clearaudio Maestro cartridge.   
 

Are the stylus profiles different?

@mijostyn : "  My mind changes all the time ...."

Well almost everything is changing each second including our mind but this is not the issue due that if our mibnd is changing all the time then the audio reproduction  home world will be  a disaster/nigthmare.

Our targets needs to be really specific, clear/pristine  and the way each one of us try to achieve all those targets is other and different subject.

In my case and through the time my targets were up-grading with necessary modifications " here and there " but my main targets dis not changes in its essence in the fundamental way. Of course that as we learned and through the years along new audio " technologies-improvements " and " new " know-how each time the audio system targets are near to be achieved till you decide ( I or we ) that it's time to in true enjoy the MUSIC as never before.

That's why I don't buy new top cartridges and when I started to live wirth the Essential 3180 I rediscovery my cartridges and thak's to my friends I listened almost all the today top cartridges ( not the Atlas Lambda Sl , yet ). My system is rigth on in the targets. For how long?, I don't know but my today listen sessions are " out of this audio world " where eacjh past up-graded to amps/speakers still surprise me.

I don't know how to explain when you are THERE because it's something that you have to experienced to know what THERE means and tghrough your posts maybe you are near but certainly not THERE yet and that's why you follow spending money in audio items trying to be THERE.  

I know from your posts that you still have a long road and " fun"/$ " looking for THERE.

I was like you unstable but today I enjopy my stability better than ever. No VIV no Dava and the like for me.

I have to say that till today I never listened any vintage/today MM/MILOMC cartridge that truly sounds really bad but what changed through the time is that today several LPs sounds not very good and the issue is that the LPs that were or had excellent mastering job performs excellent too and if I remember was @mlavigne who posted the critical importance of mastering but not in threads where all we know the importance of the recording mastering but in a thread where a gentleman wanted to know which " characteristics " look for for high quality listen levels. I participated in that thread and if I remember you did it too but only he touched in specigic the " magig " of recording mastering. The difference in my system is not low, recordings with good mastering listened way way better something that in the past was not at today high levels.

R.

@mulveling From experiences had to date, I have found that a Cartridge transforms in its capabilities as it leaves the £1500 - £2Kish cost and is a Cart' coming in at the High £2K's the £4K+ region.

There is a range of Cart's that are very likeable and even much admired in the lower price range. 

The Upper price range, is where I experience most Cart's in use today.

It is within this price range that experiences have left me with the impression, Cart's of this Value Transcend in performance and impression able to be made.

It is this impact of impression made, that makes the individual want to be broadening the range of impressions that have proven so attractive. I certainly don't see the desire to experience differing models and designs as an infliction being expressed by a compulsive consumer. Most experiences had that have been extremely attractive are on both owned and unowned Cart's.

My experiences have been that a Cart' that can make a extremely good impression, when coupled to a certain TA > TT, can repeat this impression made in multiple systems, and used through a variety of Phonostages.

As long as a Cart' has the voicing that has the fundamental attraction to a particular user, they are for me looking like a safe bet to recreate this trait in all set ups to be used.  

Hence, my interest in the Hana Umami Blue, does it really offer all that is stated to date for such reasonable monies. Then there is also the cockiness/confidence the owned system will most likely give a Cart' increased potential to improve performance, over some of the systems used giving the favourable reviews.  

@rauliruegas ,

Sometime, a lot of times reality changes. Sometimes your mind changes. My mind changes all the time and in it's own little world it is entitled to do so. I'm sorry if you do not agree with my meanderings. 

Wallytools 101

my motivation for the reference to Mr. Carr was you left his reputation hanging for a bit there….

And in any dealings i have had w him have been beyond reproach 

Many cartridges come with cantilevers leaning to one side or another which is why you always set offset by the cantilever and not the cartridge body. 

@tomic601 

Mr Carr and I have already discussed the problem and come to a resolution.

For the record, i consider all of us “ flakes “…..

in the words of B.B. King : “ Only my mama loves me, and she could be jiving too “

@jcarr ? 

My opinion on cartridges will still be flaky because, unlike you, I am a flaky person. Everyone reading! Do not listen to my opinion on cartridges, listen to Raul and @lewm. They know what they are talking about.

@mulveling and I will keep buying cartridges indiscriminately because we have a compulsive disorder.

That is true! I have a bit of a cartridge buying problem too lol.

@rauliruegas not to speak for mijo but I think we just enjoy trying & talking about them. It’s part of the hobby. Maybe there’s a final destination and "absolute truth" for me, or maybe there isn’t.

And I have to agree, everyone should please take my subjective opinions with a grain of salt. My very initial impressions too often end up off the mark; that is part of the psychology & emotional aspects at play...

@mijostyn  Sorry to hear about the Lyra cantilever deflection, that is lame :(

@mijostyn  :  " compulsive disorder? ",  I don't know about mulveling in this regards but you are not be with your self telling that because you know and I know that that is not your real trouble but not easy to accept the reality.

You are deep way deep in your digital/LP discovering and fine for you. Cartridges can't solve it and that minute Lyra deviation means almost nothing because before you beeen aware of that the Atlas Lambda SL was your top of satisfaction. Again " trouble " belongs to some of the links in your room/system chain.

Anyway, that is you and obviously that you have the last word about. No problem.

R.

Mijostyn, Thank you for the compliment of suggesting that my opinion of the SQ of a cartridge is worth a darn. On the odd occasion, I do offer a few words in that area, but I usually regret it where I might have offered an opinion on a specific cartridge, because I don’t think such questions hold either interest or merit for anyone else. The fact that I like MI cartridges, both certain vintage ones and modern ones is clearly out there already. The additional fact that I have never found much merit in HOMC cartridges as a group is also out there (based on owning Sumiko Bluepoint, Benz Glider, Benz Glider 2, Transfiguration Esprit). And I still do love the Ortofon MC2000 using either high gain phono stages or either of two current drive phono pre-preamps plus MM stage. (I've never owned a SUT of any kind.) If only the MC2000 was a bit more robust in output. Anyway, I urge others to make up their own mind(s). I try to stay away from threads asking for opinions on cartridges. They bore me.

@rauliruegas ,

Hi Raul, I am full of distortions and as I get closer to terminal they are getting worse. But, I shall explain anyway. The Lyra is the best cartridge overall I have had in my system. I have decided to keep it and listed it as sold. The reason I listed it is an issue with the company regarding a cantilever that deviated a few degrees laterally, I shall not buy another. My conscious will not allow me to dump it on another person. 

The Voice is a high output cartridge I was using with my old AR phono stage. My current stage does not have a MM input. It is a very dynamic cartridge with excellent tracking abilities and a neutral character. Regardless of whatever it is you are talking about it is an excellent cartridge for the money. If there is an amplitude deviation it works in it's favor.  

I have no idea how Dynavector related to DEQX on their phono stage. It was only mentioned that they were involved somehow. I do not expect the DEQX phono stage to be a stellar performer, but it will give me high output cartridge capability and a place to try SUTs. RIAA correction is in part done digitally. My Channel D does the entire curve digitally and my sense is that imaging is superior although it is extremely close and this could be psychological. It takes a few minutes to change from one to the other as you have to relocate the input XLRs. I could record an album with both analog RIAA and Digital RIAA correction for comparisons sake, but have not gotten around to it. 

At this moment, because I am using a cheap temporary processor/preamp, all bets are off. My DEQX is going to be shipped next week. Once that is set up my room/system performance will be way more accurate than any analog system unless someone is EXTREMELY lucky. My opinion on cartridges will still be flaky because, unlike you, I am a flaky person. Everyone reading! Do not listen to my opinion on cartridges, listen to Raul and @lewm. They know what they are talking about. 

@mulveling and I will keep buying cartridges indiscriminately because we have a compulsive disorder.  

Dear @mijostyn : In many of your posts you showed that like objectivity as with the Channel D specs and in some other ways not only in your systems but other external audio items electronics or cartridges however it’s weird that with The Voice you not only do not cares about specs but you love it the cartridge ( Yes I already listened and is a nice item but nothing more than that. ) when this cartridge has was limited frequency range ( similar to the Hyperion. ) with a frequency range swing deviation between 20hz to 20khz of 2db ( Yes Ortofon has in the HF on purpose a little deviation but is on porpose. ).

That you like it so much only confirm our really high tolerance to almost any kind of distortions including you.

Through the time you showed yoo an unstability with different cartridges you own and now you said that will put on sale your Lyra Atlas when you posted here that was the best you ever heard and yes we know that does not exist the perfect cartridge. That unstability with your cartridges could came not because the cartridges but for something or some links in your room/system chain.

Maybe you have several other explanations or reasons. Btw, the game of Dynavector was and is cartridges/tonearm and in the past SUTs but not elctronics.

RT.

I would do the Crimson which is reported to have more aggressive bass and punch with two poles. The Clearaudio Titanium is another cartridge I would like to try. 

@mijostyn  That was my thought on the two going in, before hearing them. I liked the traditional 2-pole architecture of Crimson, and the extra output. My Crimson is 0.75 and Colibri is 0.38. 

As it turns out, the Colibri is punchier than expected, with awesome macro-dynamics, and I wouldn't consider that a critical advantage to Crimson. That said, the Crimson is much easier to setup and start enjoying. There's still a touch of sibilance on this Colibri - not sure when that goes away on its own (when fully broken in) or I need to keep tweaking. Sibilance isn't a hot trigger for me and it's not too bad now anyways (was awful earlier in break in). No sibilance issues with Crimson. 

The Crimson is a little smoother and warmer overall. Still not "warm". Midrange isn't "fat" like some Japanese carts, nor dry like some Ortofons. Definitely a great choice IMO. Colibri a little faster and more detailed. 

The matching is different due to the output levels. So far I like Crimson best into my EAR MC-4 SUT, and Colibri best right into the JFET MC stage of Hagerman Trumpet Reference (~ 180 ohms load). The Crimson's output level is somewhat deceiving; it's not as high as I expected for 0.75mV. The AirTight PC-7 rated at 0.6mV is louder in practice. I think Shelters at 0.5mV are a tad louder too. The Crimson is more like what I'd expect for 0.45 - 0.5mV. Colibri's 0.38 isn't far off from what I expected there. Crimson is louder, but certainly not by 6dB. 

@mulveling I too have options on owned Phonostage and SUT's.

I can also loan SUT's, Head Amp's and a few other Phon's especially SS to have the non Valve experience. 

Having the options, has for myself been very satisfying, especially when certain permutations have been Jaw Droppingly Good with some favoured Albums. 

Without such options, discoveries will be lesser in the making. 

@mulveling 

I am hoping that with its 0.6 ohm impedance the Ultra will mate well with my current mode phono stage. It is 1/2 the impedance of the Signature Platinum. MSL cartridges are extremely well made and the styluses are 1st class. But, it may not be what I am looking for. I can get an extremely good price on one which is another factor.  The VDH will work fine in my arm. I would do the Crimson which is reported to have more aggressive bass and punch with two poles. The Clearaudio Titanium is another cartridge I would like to try. 

RV, I think you should move up the Clearaudio line to the Maestro V2. It has a much better cantilever and stylus. It should be more detailed. The Charisma is really what you want. I had one which I gave to a friend and he loves it. He also had a problem with brightness and the Charisma with it's aggressive bass cleared that right up. It is one of the most dynamic cartridges I have ever heard and beautifully made and presented. It rivals moving coil cartridges in the 4-5000 dollar range. Next up would be the Soundsmith Voice which I can not say enough good things about. Mine is now driving a pair of Magico S7s. I gave it to that friend for his 70th birthday and he LOVES it.  I liked it so much that I bought a Hyperion MR, a $10K cartridge which I should have shortly.

@rvpiano I can second tomic601's Benz Wood recommendation. Never bright or edgy, and never boring. Just nicely balanced and a bit sweet :) 

I started out in analog (years ago now) with a Benz Glider L2, and it kept the upgrade-itis at bay for two full years! In retrospect, it was a great 1st choice for me. Glider is very close to Wood, the latter is just a tad sweeter. Any of the Wood versions - L2, M2, SL, SM will do nicely (M is medium output, L is low output, S is the most recent version, 2 is the older version). 

@pindac @rauliruegas @tomic601

Thanks so much for your suggestions.

i think I might  have been a little premature in my evaluation.  Most things really sound good.  Maybe being too compulsive!

Roll em IF ya got em. You should check out the muscular Kuzma… seems to work well in my systems….

@rvpiano You might like the Benz wood bodies….

Dear @rvpiano  : 13 years ago all the Clearaudio MM cartridges were made by Audio Technica and the Virtuoso ( that I owned ) cartridge motor was the humble one by the AT 95 and improved under Clearaudio needs.

This was my review of the Virtuoso:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-clearaudio-virtuoso-wood-cartridge

Maybe what you need is to match ( as mulveling said. ) with a different tonearm the other alternative is that you need a really accurated set up especially in the VTA because the Virtuoso is extremely sensitive to minute VTA changes.

The other issue is that the retip was made by SoundSmith and maybe with ruby cantilever and this kind of material is not very good on that place where even hardened aluminum is a superior choice.

Before you spend more money try some cartridge set up modifications not only VTA but vtf and azymuth too and try to mantain clean the stylus tip and obviously your LPs.

R.