Synergy

It seems I have developed the same illness. I am cartridge bouncing again trying to find that perfect cartridge. Problem is it may not exist and this gets expensive.

@mijostyn Thanks, and yes I’ve followed your cartridge impressions with great interest! SoundSmith was previously not of interest to me, but now it very much is thanks to your feedback.

I’ve been happy with Koetsu Blue Lace as my reference for 5 years. It’s decisively the best of my Koetsus (6), but like all Koetsus it leans very heavily to warm and full-bodied side of the spectrum (though it is more balanced than its siblings). So I’ve been searching for something on the detail / dynamic / sparkly side to complement it, and/or for that mythical cart with the "just right" balance of everything. And of course I ended up with a collection, even after selling several.

I like Benzes, they’re very well balanced, but not quite up to the level I’m seeking these days. I really like some Shelters, but they’ve gotten hard to source. Ortofons end up being too sterile (midrange) for me, though Windfeld Ti was a lot closer to what I want than the older version. And the A90 was good. It makes me want to try a Verismo.

I do very much like Van den Huls lately. Somehow the midrange doesn’t leave me wanting like Ortofons. My new-ish Colibri XGW Strad is turning into a great compliment to Koetsu. But they’re a NIGHTMARE at first. First cartridges I’ve owned where suspension break-in is an absolute necessity. The Colibri wouldn’t even stay in the groove at first. The slightest perturbation on a record would excite the suspension and it would start literally SHAKING. I tried everything - different tonearms, setup etc. Had to leave it resting on a record for a several nights before it started to behave.

I’m discovering an interesting phenomenon with my new setup.
Years ago when I heard the same records as I’m listening to now I was very involved with the music. As my set got better and better, I enjoyed them less and less. Is it possible that with improved analog technology more and more flaws were revealed along with improved sound. Now that I have a really good cartridge the sound is great but with those flaws removed, so I can again appreciate the music.

Just postulating a possibility.

If any piece of gear (not just cartridges) makes it harder to enjoy music (not just audiophile recordings), it’s GONE. That’s an absolute non-starter for me. And I don’t think it’s a trait of more revealing gear at all, actually. I think it’s a side effect of suboptimal setup or system balance. We don’t deserve to torture ourselves just because a new component "should" be better!

I’m glad you ended up in a good spot again! Since the Virtuoso is MM and Hana ML is MC, I posit the fault here is just as likely attributed to your phono’s MC stage as the cartridge itself. As always our personal preferences weigh heavily on these choices. If you’re an audio subjectivist (like I am), synergy is a real thing. If you’re more of an objectivist, it’s not so much.

I buy & try a lot of cartridges, new and used. Can’t help myself. But whenever I see a newly rebuilt cartridge (usually SoundSmith or VAS) with "just 0 - 20 hours since rebuild", I automatically pass. It’s hard to get your money back from these rebuilds. One should leave it to potential buyers to choose how & where to rebuild. Ideally, you would send it in just for *assessment*, then accurately disclose condition in the sale - e.g. if original coils, suspension, and/or cantilever are intact, that helps a lot. That you kept the rebuilt Virtuoso and love it is an ideal result here :)

@mulveling The Hana Umami Blue is now on my radar to have a demo’ of along with the Verismo. I have been kindly offered a demi’ of the Verismo by a Gon Member in the UK, who also has an Ortofon Anna and A95. This is an invite I wish to revisit during 2024.

Ortofon through a subsidiary, are Market Leaders in Damper Technology, there is a huge resource for R&D into this area, as they are producing small parts for the medical industry. The Verismo has a Damper material that has been produced through this new market activity.

In my view, there might be a time when Ortofon become far advanced to their competitors when it comes to Damping Materials selection / options because this in house resource and ongoing R&D.

@pindac  Yes, Hana Blue is of great interest to me too! I (usually) love the midrange of Japanese makes. And thinking back, I haven't tried an alnico-based one (like Blue) before. The Blue's motor looks quite like a fancied-up Sumiko (Excel makes both), but then I haven't tried those either. Was VERY close to buying a Blue during the holiday sale but didn't push through (a RARE display of restraint on my part).

Ortofon's tech is indeed impressive, and their super compact MC motor with coils mounted inside a small neodymium magnet (ever since the Jubilee MC model) is quite unique and fascinating. It hasn't quite pulled together both the technical acuity and emotional musicality for me, but they're definitely getting better with time so I certainly don't write them off. Windfeld Ti and A90 both flirted with winning me over. I also like their rebuild policy and that they're not completely dependent on a single ageing cartridge master!

@mulveling 

I was looking at the Van den Hul. They have a very high compliance which I think may have been your problem. I have the Hyperion MR coming which is replacing the Platinum Signature which was very nice , but a bit too polite for me. I'm about to sell the Atlas, another long unfortunate story. So, I was looking at Van den Hul, the MSL Ultra Eminent EX, the Kuzma Car 50 and the EMT Novel Gold. I'm leaning towards the Ultra Eminent EX as it's 0.6 ohm impedance makes it a great match for my current mode phono stage and the build quality of MSL cartridges is excellent. The preamp I have coming has a high output phono stage in it designed by Dynavector. I will collect a few high output cartridges. The Soundsmith Voice will be one of them, the Nagaoka MP500 another and the third is open for argument. I am not sure about the Verismo for you. If it is anything like the MC Diamond it will be a great classical cartridge with loads of detail and a fine image but a bit shy in bass and slam. I'm keeping the Diamond because it does string quartets better than any cartridge I have ever owned. 

@mijostyn  I recently had an MSL Eminent Ex (briefly) and it was nice but just not for me. Somewhat echoing your Platinum experience, it was too polite and a bit boring. I was ready to continue trying other models in their line, but this put me off. I always roll phono stages / arms / etc when trying to optimally match a new cartridge, and got some combos which injected a bit of much needed life (best was Hagerman Trumpet Reference with the build-in JFET MC stage), but it still wasn't enough in the end. 

I got the MSL because I like my AirTight PC-7 so much, and thought I should try MSL's own line. And though there's similarity in the midrange, it ends there - the PC-7 is vastly more energetic, detailed, and fun to listen with (at times bordering on a bit too bright). The PC-7 has a more traditional coil arrangement (0.6mV at 7 ohms) and boron cantilever - not sure which of those makes the bigger difference. 7 ohms, though much higher than the MSL, is still sufficiently low for any reasonable SUT matching.  

The Van den Huls are fun (after break in), you should try one :) 
The high compliance was not an issue. I've added VPI arms here (both kinds of Fatboys, metal unipivots, and dual pivot) with sufficiently low mass (10g - 11g) to accommodate. The Colibri simply wasn't usable on ANY arm until the suspension broke in some. Then it went through an additional ~16 hours of being a sibilant nightmare mess (it's rare I have issue with sibilance). THEN it sounded great. Crimson XGW Strad was rough at the start too, but not nearly as bad. Frog Gold never had problems w/ tracking or sibilance from the start, but just sounded plain mediocre until it got around 30 hours (now I really like it too). 

I just picked up the brand new Hagerman Piccolo Zero to (finally) play with current injection instead of a SUT or JFET voltage stage. Worked GREAT with my Koetsu Blue Lace last night. I like it a lot. Not sure it will work as well with the Van den Hul (they seem to use a lot of coil for a given output) but I'll try there next. 

" I always roll phono stages / arms / etc when trying to optimally match a new cartridge.. "

Certainly I understand try to match the tonearm/cartridge combinations and even a SUT ( I did it in the past till I found out the top Denon SUT that I changed only when the cartridge need it higher gain. ) but to change electronics ( as in this case the phono stage ) just to match the cartridge let me to ask: why? .

@rauliruegas Why not? It boils down to the very topic of this thread: synergy. Every phono stage I’ve used has its own distinct sonic signature & nuances. I still keep many on hand. They’re useful for a different perspective, an occasional change of pace, or a better match to certain cartridges. It’s not just "match warm with bright" either - it’s sometimes more complex and unpredictable than that (though not always). Multiply this by the complexity of matching SUTs or MC pre-preamps - and you have the countless possibilities worthy of an enjoyable hobby :)

Of course I still have favorites. Audio Research Reference 3SE’s Low Gain mode (paired with SUT) was stunning. VAC Renaissance SE (also with outboard SUT) has been my longtime reference. Herron VTPH-2A (also with SUT - see the pattern?) pairs super well to my Koetsu Blue Lace, but had me running out the room with Windfeld Ti. And Hagerman Trumpet Reference has a warm open sound, vaguely tape-like, that I quite enjoy. Now I also have the new Hagerman Piccolo Zero to experiment with current injection!

Folks on this forum will discuss cable rolling without batting an eye. I can assure anyone the changes from swapping phono stage are orders of magnitude more significant.

@rvpiano I can second tomic601's Benz Wood recommendation. Never bright or edgy, and never boring. Just nicely balanced and a bit sweet :) 

I started out in analog (years ago now) with a Benz Glider L2, and it kept the upgrade-itis at bay for two full years! In retrospect, it was a great 1st choice for me. Glider is very close to Wood, the latter is just a tad sweeter. Any of the Wood versions - L2, M2, SL, SM will do nicely (M is medium output, L is low output, S is the most recent version, 2 is the older version). 

I would do the Crimson which is reported to have more aggressive bass and punch with two poles. The Clearaudio Titanium is another cartridge I would like to try. 

@mijostyn  That was my thought on the two going in, before hearing them. I liked the traditional 2-pole architecture of Crimson, and the extra output. My Crimson is 0.75 and Colibri is 0.38. 

As it turns out, the Colibri is punchier than expected, with awesome macro-dynamics, and I wouldn't consider that a critical advantage to Crimson. That said, the Crimson is much easier to setup and start enjoying. There's still a touch of sibilance on this Colibri - not sure when that goes away on its own (when fully broken in) or I need to keep tweaking. Sibilance isn't a hot trigger for me and it's not too bad now anyways (was awful earlier in break in). No sibilance issues with Crimson. 

The Crimson is a little smoother and warmer overall. Still not "warm". Midrange isn't "fat" like some Japanese carts, nor dry like some Ortofons. Definitely a great choice IMO. Colibri a little faster and more detailed. 

The matching is different due to the output levels. So far I like Crimson best into my EAR MC-4 SUT, and Colibri best right into the JFET MC stage of Hagerman Trumpet Reference (~ 180 ohms load). The Crimson's output level is somewhat deceiving; it's not as high as I expected for 0.75mV. The AirTight PC-7 rated at 0.6mV is louder in practice. I think Shelters at 0.5mV are a tad louder too. The Crimson is more like what I'd expect for 0.45 - 0.5mV. Colibri's 0.38 isn't far off from what I expected there. Crimson is louder, but certainly not by 6dB. 

My opinion on cartridges will still be flaky because, unlike you, I am a flaky person. Everyone reading! Do not listen to my opinion on cartridges, listen to Raul and @lewm. They know what they are talking about.

@mulveling and I will keep buying cartridges indiscriminately because we have a compulsive disorder.

That is true! I have a bit of a cartridge buying problem too lol.

@rauliruegas not to speak for mijo but I think we just enjoy trying & talking about them. It’s part of the hobby. Maybe there’s a final destination and "absolute truth" for me, or maybe there isn’t.

And I have to agree, everyone should please take my subjective opinions with a grain of salt. My very initial impressions too often end up off the mark; that is part of the psychology & emotional aspects at play...

@mijostyn  Sorry to hear about the Lyra cantilever deflection, that is lame :(