Synergistic Red Fuse ...
Knghifi, looking down on the HAPZ1 with the front closest to me, the fuses were installed with the S to the left and the R to the right. Again, I found the directionality to be rather obvious. The fuse in the front is labeled HDD live. The one towards the back is labeled Mains Live. Look off to the left and towards the back for the label. I asked Dan Wright a number of questions, including "which fuse serves the DAC." He didn't answer that particular question. It may be that the mains fuse is serving mostly uses such as the display, which would explain that fuse having little or no impact of the quality of sound. |
Salyes. That was well said. The great joy and gift of this hobby is we can listen and make our individual determinations, what else matters more than improving sound quality for our music reproduction at home? The SR fuses have increased your enjoyment of listening to music. I would assume this is the goal of all of us on a forum such as this. I am glad to read that your pleasure has increased with the use of these fabulous fuses. Hi Bill (Brownsfan) Yes. the very same effect in my system as well when compared to lesser fuses. Charles, |
Geoff, repeating what I said in my post in this thread dated 3-8-2016 4:18pm EDT: Geoffkait 3-8-2016 4:01pm EDTYup. And as you may recall I commented on those measurements extensively in various posts in the long-running "Fuses That Matter" thread. Most notably in my post dated 5-14-2012 11:24 a.m., wherein I summarized my technical comments by saying: Regards, -- Al |
Al wrote, "I’ve pondered the possibility that unusually high resistance might account for the differences that have been reported, compared to stock fuses. It seems unlikely for several reasons, including the consistently positive direction of the differences that have been reported, the directionality that has been reported, and the fact that the fuses would probably be getting warm or hot if their resistance was great enough to drop significant voltage. But still, it would be interesting if someone could make those measurements, if only because it may rule out a possible contributor to the differences." pretty sure we’ve covered this question you’re pondering before. See link below to some data on HiFi Tuning’s website for resistance of various fuses - several of their own, stock fuses and others - backwards, forwards, cryo’d, what have you. No sense torturing yourself pondering. ;-) http://www.hifi-tuning.com/pdf/wlfr.eng.pdf "I'm trying to think but nothing happens." ~ Curly cheers, Geoff @ Machina Dynamica |
Georgelofi 3-18-2016 7:18pm EDTIt would be interesting if someone who has some of these fuses and also has a good quality digital multimeter would measure their resistances. "Good quality" includes the ability to resolve fractions of an ohm. If anyone does this, for the result to be meaningful the reading that is obtained by touching the two probe tips directly together should be subtracted out, if it is not zero. I’ve pondered the possibility that unusually high resistance might account for the differences that have been reported, compared to stock fuses. It seems unlikely for several reasons, including the consistently positive direction of the differences that have been reported, the directionality that has been reported, and the fact that the fuses would probably be getting warm or hot if their resistance was great enough to drop significant voltage. But still, it would be interesting if someone could make those measurements, if only because it may rule out a possible contributor to the differences. Regards, -- Al |
georgelofi, dear sir, you and I will perhaps never agree because in you mind set, a fact, is not a fact until human consciousness and agreement formally except an idea. In my mind, this can be pure madness and so would be arguing this subject as I am scientifically, admittedly, ill equipped. The problem with this fundamental miss step though is we (and our science) is often wrong until it is right. Commonly the human condition can't see outside the small box it has constructed to feel comfortable. This is not to say, that that is all that exists. But it is our ignorance to believe in such limits. Just like with psychoacoustics or our terribly short audio memory, this mindset can be fooled. History is filled with pseudoscience proven wrong once an enlightened soul happens to observe and validate a phenomenon by looking at it in a way others have not. This is not voodoo, but many have been persecuted or worse for not thinking like the common excepted beliefs of a particular time, deemed as fact. I realize it is scary to question commonly held beliefs, some perhaps "seudo-facts". Yet I'm too busy enjoying my life and the music to argue with you. If you chose to be more interested in stamping out counterintuitive thinking "your voodoo" on public audio threads, that is your choice. Though it is a burden many of us will simply have to bear. I would only suggest that you consider "science" with the knowledge of a old man but, with the wonder and possibility of a child. I contend you will not only be happier, but may well leave the opportunity to actually discover or advance something in our science. In this case, I truly enjoy what Caelin Gabriel speaks of at the closing of this interview as I feel it is so spot on and I find it speaks well to this discussion. http://www.theaudiobeat.com/visits/shunyata_visit_interview.htm Happy Listening, ah?! |
i suggest that nstalling the two T800mAL SR Black fuses into a Sony XA-5400ES deck one should hear a better result with when when the SR (red) logo "arrow" is facing the front of the deck. Or in other words, the fuses should read like illustrated: BACK OF DECK< SR ----> >FRONT OF DECK agreement with this direction is also documented here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/sony-xa5400es-fuse-directionality?highlight=Xa5400es%2Bfuses Happy Listening! |
brownsfan1,122 posts03-19-2016 5:30amI’ve got about 50 hours on the two SR blacks I installed in my ModWright Sony HAPZ1 now. Last night, I removed them and put the stock fuse back in. The effect was exactly the same as A/B’ing stock vs SR black in my Coincident CSL. The sound went two dimensional with loss of dynamics and a step backwards in complexity of harmonics. I reinstalled the fuses one at a time, and found that the fuse serving the hard drive was far more important than the fuse labeled "mains." Next up I am either going to buy one more 3.15 A slo, and fuse my Coincident Franks with the SR Blacks leaving the stock fuse in the mains slot, or else buy a fuse for my MW PS 9.0 power supply.Brownsfan, what direction did you install the two SR black fuses in your MW Sony HAPZ1? Facing the unit from the front, Is the fuse in the front or rear serves the hard drive? My board doesn't indicate "mains" ... both have same label. |
Geoffkait: After all that was YOUR claim - that a straight wire bypass would outperform an aftermarket fuse. To which Georgelofi responded, "Technically YES, if one is a technician and a betting man you would put your money on the "temporary" 10mm piece of copper wire everytime, unless one is a voodoo’ist then your a believer that pigs can fly. That’s why this sort of thing is not getting any reco in the "Tech Talk" forum and should not be given it as well. Unless these fuses are resistive, capacitive, or inductive in nature, then there are grounds for a technical discussion on them, and if they are any of these then they can only be detrimental to performance in the power supply chain." well, actually maybe YES for a stock fuse or perhaps for an aftermarket fuse of yore. But, as I already explained fuses have evolved. They’re like the Alien. Many modern (I.e., aftermarket) fuses address a wide range of problems, problems that exist with a stock fuse AND with a copper wire bypass. I am going out on a limb here but I’m guessing that techs don’t believe in wire directionality, do they? I'm getting the feeling techs might be a couple paradigm shifts behind the curve. Anyway, to summarize, the real answer is NO. geoffkait @ Machina Dynamica |
I've got about 50 hours on the two SR blacks I installed in my ModWright Sony HAPZ1 now. Last night, I removed them and put the stock fuse back in. The effect was exactly the same as A/B'ing stock vs SR black in my Coincident CSL. The sound went two dimensional with loss of dynamics and a step backwards in complexity of harmonics. I reinstalled the fuses one at a time, and found that the fuse serving the hard drive was far more important than the fuse labeled "mains." Next up I am either going to buy one more 3.15 A slo, and fuse my Coincident Franks with the SR Blacks leaving the stock fuse in the mains slot, or else buy a fuse for my MW PS 9.0 power supply. Like others, I am really surprised how much difference these fuses can make. Where these fuses make a difference, the difference is substantial. |
Facts "IHMO" ?????? please post all these "facts" up by all means, back by some sort of SOUND technical explanations to their advantage to sound quality improvement. Myself, and I’m sure many others here are all ears to hear the "facts" and their technical explanations. Cheers George |
georgelofi, dear sir, you are sadly confused by only a portion of the facts IMHO. If you would just use those marvelous joy receptors on either side of that over analytical mind, I believe you would be able to validate beyond any question that something good is taking place here with these little devices. Logic has you bound up believing what experience will show simply enough is false, or a half truth. I recommend just trusting you ears, relax, and enjoy. Life is too short. There are many things we can hear that can't be measured, and many things measured that can't be heard. Happy Listening ah?! |
Just installed the two T800mAL SR Black fuses into my Sony XA-5400ES deck. I tried them both ways and everything got better when with the arrows facing the front of the unit. Playing John Hiatt's Crossing Muddy Waters and I have to say, the jump factor, even with these, cold out of the post box, is really something. The string work between guitar and mandolin sounds more acoustic and more alive, immediately with these babies in place. Can't wait for John's voice to come in. Time to punch the burn clock! Burn babies, burn! What a great way to start the weekend. Cheers! Happy Listening! |
Technically YES, if one is a technician and a betting man you would put your money on the "temporary" 10mm piece of copper wire everytime, unless one is a voodoo’ist then your a believer that pigs can fly. That’s why this sort of thing is not getting any reco in the "Tech Talk" forum and should not be given it as well. Unless these fuses are resistive, capacitive, or inductive in nature, then there are grounds for a technical discussion on them, and if they are any of these then they can only be detrimental to performance in the power supply chain. Cheers George |
Geoffkait: "the old copper wire bypass trick probably actually isn’t up to snuff anymore. Not to mention the unpleasant sound resulting from soldering the copper wire." geoff at MD To which George replied, "Your kidding right??? What do you think the yards of traces under your circuit boards are made of??? Copper!!!" You’re opening with that? A Strawman argument? We’re not talking about the copper traces or about any copper wire anywhere. We're talking about the fuse bypass. Let's keep things simple. We’re just comparing a modern aftermarket Fuse like the ones we’ve been discussing with a copper wire bypass. After all that was YOUR claim - that a straight wire bypass would outperform an aftermarket fuse. And I just gave you plenty of reasons why a modern fuse will outperform the copper wire bypass. In fact, now that you bring it up, I’m all in favor of maintaining correct directionality for all copper wiring EVERYWHERE in the system - circuit boards, internal wiring of speakers, transformers, of course interconnects and speaker cables but also capacitors, resistors, etc. All wire is directional. Not just fuses. Hel-looo! |
mapman Ididn’t say to "eliminate". Isaid to try as an experiment, just like your doing now with these fuses. Cheers George
Your kidding right??? What do you think the yards of traces under your circuit boards are made of??? Copper!!! Cheers George |
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Sometimes it’s the better part of valor not to respond to my posts. ;-) I hate to play the guessing game but I’m guessing you didn’t get the memo about Graphene being a good RFI shield due to it’s very high conductivity. I’m guessing (again) you probably thought they were using Graphene on the fuse wire. ;-) Also, I can’t help notice you didn’t take the bait on my pop quiz and the WA Quantum Chip for fuses. Smart man. In any case, it looks like the case of the Black Fuse is solved. geoff kait machina dramatica An ordinary man has no means of deliverance |
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Think of it as a mental exercise. You’re the one that’s been guessing the whole time anyway. And incorrectly I might add. ;-)
" So your saying I should waste more time trying to figure things out rather than asking the experts? IS that what you tell your customers when they ask ask about your teleportation tweak? Geoff if I indulged in your recommended mental exercises I think my mind would wilt. Maybe that would make me more likely to buy something from you? :^) |
Mapman wrote, "Well I guess if one cared enough one could easily call Synergistic Research and ask any question they like. Nothing like getting info straight from the horses mouth. There is probably a simple yes or no answer to most questions. If I get the urge to actually buy a fuse from SR, that is what I will likely do prior. There should be no need to guess if one has questions." Think of it as a mental exercise. You’re the one that’s been guessing the whole time anyway. And incorrectly I might add. ;-) |
Well I guess if one cared enough one could easily call Synergistic Research and ask any question they like. Nothing like getting info straight from the horses mouth. There is probably a simple yes or no answer to most questions. If I get the urge to actually buy a fuse from SR, that is what I will likely do prior. There should be no need to guess if one has questions. |
"OK, try this one......remove the "red fuse" and bridge out he the fuse holder with some copper wire,"Did you try reversing the direction of your wire? Maybe it was backward. |
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Mapman wrote, "Well if teh Black Fuse truly uses Graphene as claimed then it might well be more conductive than silver. How about in teh interest of science open up a Black fuse and report on the contents for us?" hmmm, one can’t help wondering if the little black dot on the outside of the BLACK fuse is the Graphene, you know as in graphite. Isn’t that the thing that supposedly interferes with the WA Quantum Chip for fuses? One gets the feeling the Graphene is not being employed as a conductor. I know what you’re thinking: how do you know that! pop quiz: what's in the WA Quantum Chip for Fuses? geoff at md |
Well if teh Black Fuse truly uses Graphene as claimed then it might well be more conductive than silver. How about in teh interest of science open up a Black fuse and report on the contents for us? If the graphene claims can be verified independently that would score another point for SR and also help justify the cost further. It could be like those flavored drinks, yeah there is a little pomegranite in there but its mostly sugar and artificial flavorings. "Skeptic" mopman out. |
"OK, try this one for an experiment only, definitely not for long term for safety sake. Make sure all is working fine and you grown used to how it sounds. Then remove the "red fuse" and bridge out he the fuse holder with some copper wire, you can even tack solder it on the outside of the fuse holder. It should sound the best, if anything at all. Cheers George"
I tried this with a pure silver fuse replica that was highly polished. After A*B-ing a few times... my conclusion was... the SR black fuse was highly superior in every way. |
Georgelofi wrote, "OK, try this one for an experiment only, definitely not for long term for safety sake. Make sure all is working fine and you grown used to how it sounds. Then remove the "red fuse" and bridge out he the fuse holder with some copper wire, you can even tack solder it on the outside of the fuse holder. It should sound the best, if anything at all." actually, with all the advancements in fuse technology, including quantum mechanics and nanotechnology, in the past twenty years including, but not limited to, purer wires, better end caps, attention to vibration, attention to EMI/RFI, and attention to "energy flow efficiency" (WA Quantum Fuse Chip), the old copper wire bypass trick probably actually isn’t up to snuff anymore. And I didn't even mention cryogenics. Shame on me. Besides you’ve only got a 50% chance of inserting the copper wire correctly according to my calculations. Otherwise you’ll wind up with a big mess. Not to mention the unpleasant sound resulting from soldering the copper wire. geoff at MD no goats no glory |
Papa also someone above pointed out that the fuse ARC put in their unit appeared to be not your typical Walmart variety fuse. I would agree. The slo blow fuse that was in my ARC sp16 looked quite substantial and nothing like the slo blos we used to sell at Radio Shack. Some thought appeared to go into it. So I don’t think its safe to say that those making our gear always give fuses the short shift. There are many reasons why ARC has been as successful and been around as long as they have. They make great sounding gear to start. Also I noted earlier that back in my hifi sales days, I recall convincing myself that slo blo fuses made more sense for use in hifi gear than fast blo and developed a preference for those based on teh gut feel that every slo blo fuse I have seen has a more substantial filament and is more forgiving of current passing through and I think its a safe assumption that teh fewer bottlenecks anywhere the better.. Its also almost always the case that one can only judge something new in comparison to what came before it. The quality of fuses being replaced by audiophile fuses surely varies widely. That alone could account for why different people hear different results. I tend to downgrade any review of any product when the reviewer fails to acknowledge what the gadget he thinks sounds so great is replacing. So for me, its never been about whether a fuse can sound different or not. Its more about the value proposition of various options. $100 is small fry to pay as part of a 5 digit system. Yet there may well be other commercial fuses out there of similar quality still for less than $1. That’s still a huge difference to justify. When the time comes to replace a fuse, I will surely still consider all the alternatives based on pure technical merit. If the $1 fuse does not cut it, no big loss. |
OP, One thing I should say is that I am not one to continually pick apart how my stuff sounds. I've managed to get past all that with the setup I've assembled currently. The fuse is there and sounding good. It may be providing some change in the sound. It sounds really good fuse in or out. If there are differences, they are subtle so either way works. I dabbled with a/b compares the other day and am done with that. The fuse will likely stay in now that its there. If it blows would I replace it? Dunno yet. I'll wait to cross that bridge. I am not likely to be running out and replacing all my fuses with these though. |
" Are you noticing while listening to your Ohm 5 system that instruments have a more tactile organic presentation?" If there is a difference it is very subtle but this is as good a term for what I think I might be hearing different as any. The thing is I am not really hearing a clear difference with recordings I am most familiar with. Are you finding yourself more immersed into the music than is usually the case?I was immersed last night but usually am when I am relaxed and able to focus on the music and not other things. Are you finding yourself listening to entire recordings/CD/vinyl/high-rez downloads, instead of jumping around from recording to recording and/or cut to cut? Not enough listening yet to say. In general, sound quality hardly ever prevents me from listening to particular recordings. I find most to be involving even if technically limited. As long as no clear unintended distortion is there. That was a big goal for me putting together my setup, to be able to listen to and enjoy all music. |
OK, try this one for an experiment only, definitely not for long term for safety sake. Make sure all is working fine and you grown used to how it sounds. Then remove the "red fuse" and bridge out he the fuse holder with some copper wire, you can even tack solder it on the outside of the fuse holder. It should sound the best, if anything at all. Cheers George |
Love "Seventh Sojourn", have all seven on MoFi Gold, but like the latest issue, overseen by Justin Hayward. Now playing: Dave Valentin's "Tropic Heat" on Grusin/Rosen Productions, one of the first labels to commit to all digital recordings in the '80s, recall "Harlequin" with Dave Grusin and Lee Ritenour. Fabulous CD sound from '85 and still available. |
Mapman ... I'm convinced that the more highly resolving the system, the more impact these little fuses make. Are you noticing while listening to your Ohm 5 system that instruments have a more tactile organic presentation? Are you finding yourself more immersed into the music than is usually the case? Are you finding yourself listening to entire recordings/CD/vinyl/high-rez downloads, instead of jumping around from recording to recording and/or cut to cut? |
Papa I always feel the vibe with my stuff running the big Ohm 5s. Feeling it tonight as well. Hifi is a team sport. I'm throwing just under 20k at the music with this system. The fuse is playing with the team very nicely. How much it is contributing uniquely is still no easier for me to say. But I like what I hear and would rather just listen than muck around with fuses as you advised. |
Ok now l via l viaquez by Mars Volta from Francis the Mute. Here's some potential ear bleed material that might chase many out of the room. It has its edge but nothing that probably should not be there in the first place. This is rough but I'm surviving. It's not the fuses fault. Another just par for the course. |
