Switching to solid state amp?

I would also recommend you take a look at Plinius amps and/or Integrated. This caught my eye today: 
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-silver-mint-condition-2017-10-15-amplifiers

If one wanted an Integrated that sounds some what tube like.

First Watt will be a brand I will take a strong look at.   Thanks for all the great comments.

marco1-
can you talk about any difference(s) between the INT-30 and INT-60 Pass Labs amps? Happy Listening!

It’s not really that folks prefer the distortion of tube amps as willemj suggests. It’s that the higher THD distortion of tube amps is not (rpt not) audible. But this is not (rpt not) big news. We found this out 40 years ago when the vanishingly low distortion (THD) solid state amps of the era sounded rather horrible compared to much higher THD tube amps. And while one might argue solid state amps have progressed greatly since then and even have certain advantages over tube amps, including maintenance and reliability, though I suspect even those advantages are a little overblown. I would opine tube amps can frequently be superior to solid state amps in terms of realism, dynamics, warmth, inner detail, high frequency response, smoothness, soundstaging, musicality, and - perhaps ironically - what I call "apparent lack of distortion."

geoff kait
machina dynamica

It's not really that people like distortion. They can't hear the distortion that tube amps might have in more abundance than solid state. We went through this debate forty years ago with vanishingly low THD solid state amps that sounded terribly compared to tube Amos with orders of magnitude higher THD. Obviously, as long as the THD is down around 0.05% it will not interfere with one's enjoyment of the tube amp's otherwise terrific sonic virtues. You know, like realism, air, harmonic integrity, bass performance, dynamics, presence, soundstage, 

Tubes tend to have a few disadvantages, apart from the inconvenience:
1 higher distortion, even though some like that.
2 load dependent frequency response. The best are borderline OK, but many have a terrible frequency response under realistic speaker loads. Just watch the graphs in Stereophile (and ignore the words).
3 low output power. Speakers need power, and lots of it, to move the mass of those cones. Without enough power, the sound will distort on louder signals, and be compressed. Again, some like this, but it is not a straight wire with gain.

Personally I am convinced that solid state amplifiers are a mature technology that reached sonic perfection in the 1980's. Hence, under controled conditions no differences between them can be detected. That is good news, because manufacturing technology by mainstream brands has made such amplifiers eminently affordable.
If you want to spend money on the amplifier with the best test results, look no further than the Benchmark AHB2. For some perverse pleasure in debunking audio myths: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/amplificateurs-de-puissance-haute-fidelite/mesures-ampli-yamaha-p...

Litterature:
http://www.keith-snook.info/wireless-world-magazine/Wireless-World-1977/Audible%20amplifier%20distor...
https://linearaudio.nl/sites/linearaudio.net/files/Valves%20versus%20Transistors%20DCD.pdf

Stay with tubes. Here is a nice article on why many prefer the sound of tubes, including me!
https://medium.com/collectors-weekly/could-an-old-school-tube-amp-make-the-music-you-love-sound-bett...

It is not the point of warm or not warm sound, the point is to achieve harmonically correct and balanced sound. For $10k I would probably get Atma-Sphere preamp with phono and amp. Yes, all tubes. Unless you can jump to Nagra, FM Acoustics, Gryphon, Ypsilon hybrids etc. But even then very careful audition and match with speakers would be in order.

As more people learn to use complementary devices (matched pnp and npn transistors), SS sounds better and better.

I say DIY. When you make it yourself, you can use the finest components and still have an almost sane budget, as long as you are prepared to test and discard popular mythology.

YMMV

Made the switch 45 years ago with a Sony TA-3200F. Still have it, though regulated to multiamp duty on my 'B' setup. Never had a problem, sounds fabulous. In the heyday of HH Scott, Marantz, Mac etc. it was heralded by all my friends as having the best sound they'd ever heard. There is IMO no point to using tubes unless you like the visual factor. Induce some phase shift in the last 1 1/2 octaves, stay out of clipping and poof, you have that 'warm tube sound'.

moscode hybrid, used....

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tube-amazing-hybrid-power-amp-2017-10-03-amplifiers

It’s solid state output, one that is designed from the ground up...with that tube voltage gain front end (in the amplifier), to match your retained tube preamp.

These amps are ’tunable’.

Hybrids are always on my short list.

At the bottom of the listing is a link to a 6 moons review of the older model.

Read.

It explains why hybrids are in some important and critical ways... ’the only real choice’.

Thanks for your opinion Audio Doctor.  I owned a Electrocompaniet Cdp in the early 2000’s so I am very familiar with their gear.  Wish I could expand my budget to look at the fine T+A  amp.

We are dealers for Electrocompaniet, whose amps are very tube like. Recently due to a stronger dollar their prices went down. They make a fantastic 250 watt beast of an amplifer the AW 250 and it is both very powerful and very open with a smooth tube like sound. It used to be $9k current price is $7,200.00 and it can drive anything with ease.

So I would add that amp to your list I am also intersted in listening to the Wells they are getting a lot of raves as well. 

As per tubes vs solid state, our reference system went from CJ ART tube amplifiers which are $40k tube amplifiers which are wonderful to the T+A solid state 300 watt amplifier which is a bit higher then your budget at $19k the T+A amp so far has consistantly sounded better than the best tube amplifiers we have tested driving our reference speaker lines, Kef Blades, Paradigm Personas, and the Polymer Reserach MKX-s.

None of the tube amplifiers ever had the slam tha you get from a good solid state amplifier, and todays' best solid state amplifiers have a much more tube like sense of imaging and midrange warmth. 

So for us, we love the new solid state gear. 

Hope that helps.

Dave owner
Audio Doctor NJ

Budget up to $10,000 new or used.  My speakers sound great with my current 20 watt amps.  So easy to drive.  11 x 13 small room.  Preamp Deja Vu custom. Listen mostly to vinyl.   Aesthetic and Wells are interesting.

I owned Quicksilver V-4 mono blocks for 10 years in my system which was based around Vandersteen speakers, 5's and Quatro's. I switched to the Aesthetix Atlas from the V-4's and was very happy. If you can hear the Aesthetix I think you may find what you are looking for. The Aesthetix is a hybrid amp and uses 6SN7's for the input stage. The Quickies are great amps but once you hear the Atlas on the Vandersteen's it's hard not to make a change. This is just my opinion and YMMV.

http://www.aesthetix.net/atlas.php

Good Luck!

@bobheinatz 

But the question can I live long term with a SA amp?

You know the answer regarding how you need to go about finding out. : )

If you find the right match for your system, my sense is you may be very pleasantly surprised; and if you get a few amps that don't you'll be wondering why you bothered. 

You haven't mentioned budget, speakers, your tubed pre, or room .... knowing those will help.

Meant to say SS amp.

Kalali,  good question.  My current amps have been malfuncting for the past year with various problems so a simplistic maintainence plan which SS can represent is very attractive to me right now.  But the question can I live long term with a SA amp?

From Cary I switched to Ayre, which is supposed to be pretty sweet-sounding, but here I am back with Rogue.  YMMV.

Hi,

Which SS amp depends on ones preffs and speakers. … and budget.

I’m guessing the big conversion would be my preffs first. Its tuff IMO to get all SS power train that is obviously compelling and involving with out spending well into the upper middle or top o line amps.

BAT SS is a good thought. Plinius is another. One of the best combos I owned was a BAT vk500 & Thor line stage pre with Silverline Sonata IIIs 93DB @ 8.

If it is all about acquiring those things SS readily delivers and a tube pre is in the mix for sure, Krell, or some ‘as’ dynamic and very well extended amp seems in order.

I’ve thought of Vitas as an option but in higher Wattage iterations, which likely is not the need here unless speakers to are being swapped. Haegle is another option. Gryphon. Halo. Bryston is always a pretty safe pick.

A very good pr of monos if used gear is not an issue would be the Bel Canto 1000 mk IIs. I’ve heard these a lot and they are IMO a great choice especially now at lower pricing. The BC 500 half the power mono versions are similar but with a much much warmer presentation. Both are very very nice sounding amps. Examining various PC with these amps is going to have obvious outcomes as both are quite receptive . to changes there.

Nagra is making a reputedly sweet sounding SS amp now. D’agostino Classic might be just the ticket too. Modright has a well received amp out there now. As does Wells Audio.

Good hunting

You can say I went back to Pass after owning Threshold more than 40 years ago.  In between I've owned many different SS and Tube amps.  The switch back to Pass was originally intended to downsize somewhat from tube separates.  I had the Int 30 first and now have the Int 60.  To these old ears, nothing has sounded as good as the Pass.

Out of curiosity, what is your reasoning for switching from tube to SS? Is it heat, cost of tubes or something else.

david_tens  and too blue thanks for your input.  A lot sure love their Pass amps.  Keep them coming.

@bobheinatz  Hopefully you'll get some traction with this thread. I'm curious also, and would like to learn from those that have done the same.

I don't have your length of experience with tubed systems, but they were thoroughly enjoyable. Over the past few years, I've made the switch to all solid state.

My main 2ch system rebuild started about six months ago. With some recent changes, I'm getting very close to having a solid state system that performs at a level comparably enjoyable to my best tubed efforts. 

I have been happy with the Spread Spectrum Technologies Son of Ampzilla Mk2 (the Wyred 4 Sound version). The Ampzilla 2000 Mk 2 would be an interesting option if you prefer  monos and need more power. I mention both because they don't get much play here and are worth considering should they fit your needs and within your system.

The SST was recently replaced with the Pass XA-30.8.  My preamp is the Pass XP-20.

I'm still keeping the door open for a tubed amplifier and preamplifier, but given the recent major jump up in overall performance the need isn't as strong.

sound like you might want a hybrid amplifier. One with a tube front end and a solid state power output section.

I too have been using tube amps for a while but still enjoy a really good solid state amp in my system, with that said I have a Pass Labs XA30.5 that I just can't bring myself to sell even though physically it doesn't fit in my system but when it is just sounds right.