Whart I too have a small vinyl collection. It's a chore double, sometimes triple or quad dipping into the same titles :(
I already have the Shelby Lynne on LP and CD, but couldn't resist the new audiophile pressing on LP and SACD.
I know.. what a sucker :D
For more contemporary music, I recently got Amy Winehouse, Nirvana on LP. Heck I even got Nirvana off HD Tracks.
But I digress.
Anyway, the Ayon CD2S was my first dip into tubes. I shortly upgraded to the Ayon CD5S. Then I went overboard with an Audio Research Reference 5 which was later upgraded to the 5SE. I still use the Ayon as a CDP/Pre on a second system.
The truth is I am not into tubes all the way. I like dynamics and detail, and I found the Ayon + ARC was too off pace for my liking. So I ended up using only one tube gear in the chain (preamp) and have SS CDP (EMM Labs XDS1) and SS power amps (Electrocompaniet Nemos). |
Although we haven't gone completely solid state, our system at the lake still uses tubes, the main home system has slowly gone all SS . Tubes have the smooth, liquid advantage, but solid state will always be superior in clarity, dynamic swing and definition. I've never looked at tubes as fun, more of a nuisance for folks that just want to listen to music.
I've pondered over which is superior for many years, in the end it doesn't really matter, it would be churlish to think we could live without either.. |
Wolf, no malice intended, it is hard to tell from the Internet, because you can't see the smile, the arch of the eyebrow or the wink. |
Doggie, despite what i had heard and read about how bad the lost highway
pressing of shelby lynne was, i bought one standard pressing and one
audiophile pressing (I sorta hate to encourage audiophile pressings, if i can
avoid them, and have been digging through original issues of lot's of stuff,
finding it sounds better sometimes). Anyway, the lost highway 'standard'
pressing is, as many people have said, virtually unlistenable, it is noisy, it
sounds like misstracking, and although I thought this had been brought to
the attention of the label quite a while ago , and thought they 'fixed' it in
later pressings, the standard one i bought through Amazon a week ago - it
was on clear vinyl- was awful. The audiophile pressing is totally fine. So, it
seems like in some cases, you have to pay the premium for new vinyl to
get something that is useable. And despite what people say about lousy
original pressings and better mastering on the new issues, many of the
older original pressings sound great, even if they are 'thin' vinyl and were
pressed off by the tens of thousands when the medium was still a
mainstream commodity.
I also get a kick out of how many times some of these audiophile
warhorses get reissued. Tea for the Tillerman 19? (Like a bad horror
movie). My island pink label which i bought from a homeless guy on the
street for a dollar or two, sounds better than the UHQR (which I bought
new) and every other reissue of that record i have heard.
best, |
I never wink unless something unwanted gets in my eye, but that's more of a blink. Also, at my house on the lake (which doesn't actually exist), we always look at tubes as fun. I think we're just wired for fun around here. I also think car tires are "fun" which may serve to illustrate my threshold of fun.
|
My eye winks when something wanted gets in my view. Female'y speaking, of course. |
Hey, my eye has a mind of it's own... and my other one constantly look's at it with disgust. |
I did try picking up some old pressings but they are usually in bad states.. pops and cracklings even with multiple cleans. But once the music begins in gusto, it's usually forgotten like with my old Chuck Mangione's Feels So Good |
You know them... You love them... You cannot live without them... wait for it........TUBES! |
It's true, to a degree. There is something so old school laboratory 50's sci-fi
atomic age (and earlier) electronic about tubes. Ever look at the stuff
Jeffrey Jackson
does or those things using ancient radio tubes, or even 211's or..... They all
have a quality that brings back the ghost of radio stations, transmitting
facilities, guys in white lab coats with clip boards (no, not the asylum
attendants).
And, you can change the sound by swapping out tubes, sometimes to a
remarkable degree. I was comparing the sound of different rectifier tubes in
the last week.
And, they glow. And throw off heat.
Maybe Regismc was right after all. We are only in it for
.....
the gear. :)
But, there are a few drawbacks. Big, heavy, throws off heat, not the easiest
thing to work with on a number of speakers. Cost of tubes. Quality of tubes
(or lack thereof). Sources of tubes. Tube oscillation. Tube microphonics.
Tube life. And Tube death. Still love 'em.
Can't live without 'em. Maybe.
I go through the same issues with vinyl. Is this a good pressing?
Is it clean? Is it scratched, is it warped, is my cartridge properly aligned,
what about the VTA, should the cartridge be replaced, oh, the goddamn
airpump for the tone arm, is that mistracking I hear or just another noisy
new pressing?
But I haven't been able to give it up. Yet. |
There's only one word to sum up tubes..as Ric Flair would say "weather you like it or don't like it TUBES are the best thing goin' Ta-day!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! remember, his shoes cost more than your house! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO! really, you can like anything you want. It just seems that there are too many things to choose from. I'm just happy I can eat whenever I want. |
Winking is just creepy. Don't do it. |
There is both good and less-than-good tube gear out there and there is both good and less-than-good gear out there that is SS. If you compare good vs. good in each camp, the sonic quality will be comparable (though the relative distribution of strengths and weaknesses in imaging, dynamics, richness, fatigue factor, etc... may differ some). One (SS or tube) does not sound inherently better than the other. It is really just a function of which sonic trade-offs you can live with easier given your system/ear/the music you play.
But the tube gear is always more finicky and a greater pain to maintain. And, in the long run with replacement tubes... probably more expensive than comparable sounding SS.
I have been in both camps and am currently all tube. That said, I kind of wish I was back in the SS camp... it is so much more hassle free. |
I will only go back to SS if I want to downgrade in sound or get out of the hobby altogether. I'm getting a Linn Classik for days that I'll only listen to music for 1-2 hours. It'll come in handy if a tube goes out and I have no back up. |
Relative pathological or hysterical tonal merit opinions notwithstanding, I enjoy tube swapping as a user friendly tone change vehicle to a degree that I can't imagine not being able to do that. I find the tactile and visual aspects of a tube amp (with tubes I can see) so appealing that the only SS amp I could imagine using has to have at least a meter to look at...I seem to have needs. I'm thinking of designing a display case for my extra tubes with little LEDs under each tube so they glow harmlessly. Official name: The Garcia Tube Display and Dust Protector Art Thing. Try doing that with a display of transistors...not so pretty now is it! |
"There is both good and less-than-good tube gear out there...
"It is really just a function of which sonic trade-offs you can live with..."
Robsker - Those are very valid points, but I think its equally valid to state that the higher the quality of tube gear and tubes that were talking about, the more those trade-offs diminish.
"I enjoy tube swapping as a user friendly tone change vehicle...
Wolf - Tubes can certainly serve that purpose, but higher quality tubes, properly matched with the circuit and each other, can have a much more profound impact than merely altering tones. IMO, thats where the real opportunity is to achieve the speed, dynamics and all those other goodies associated with solid state. |
I suppose I should be more succinct in my description of tube swapping benefits...I meant it changes the SOUND. I think replacing the 6550s in my amp with KT120s made it snappier...although I'm not sure, but I am sure I'm not interested in it sounding like a solid state amp particularly. It did make me feel better so there's that. |
I tried unsuccessfully to switch back to SS three different times.
Shakey |
Hi Wolf,
I think what you said was fine, and I agree that different tube sets will change the sound of your amplifier. I was just trying to expand on your post by adding that the right tube swap can actually result in a remarkable, across the board, improvement in your amps performance. |
Just got my (2nd) Linn Classik as a back up for when tubes go out. Good sound and versatile, but no way I'll go back to SS. It just can't compare even though it sounds good to me...just not nearly as good. |
Even though I like the Linn Classik it has made me realize that I've been right all along. Speakers are NOT the final answer for producing great sound. Important, but upstream is even more important. |
Phaelon...yeah...the different tube sets I've tried all sound great and do have their own little characteristics, but the KT120 has such ease to it I think it does do a more transformitive improvement. I've recently spoken to someone at "thetubestore" and got some really interesting opinions on 12ax7s...recommending a new Chinese select over the new Gold Lions to insure "clarity and accuracy" over "warmth". |
Polk432, couldn't disagree more. |
I haven't experimented with new small tubes, maybe they have improved, I've only had luck soncially with older tubes, and even among those, pretty selective (the telefunkens seem to be more my cup of tea). I haven't tried any different power tubes in the Lamm ML2 for good reason- it's not really an option. But, interestingly, I've been experimenting with vintage rectifier tubes in my new phono stage, and there are sonic differences among them.
FWIW, I think everything makes a difference in a system, which by definition, is interdependent on each element. |
I thought I would update this as I have just removed the Cayin CS-55 tube integrated amp/Micromega MyDAC & installed a near mint,barely broke in Creek Evolution 50a with the Ruby2 DAC board...
It’s only been an hour now but initial impressions are pretty good.Surprised at the imaging & staging,good depth & width though height seems a bit compacted,tone sounds pretty good but drums don’t seem to have that organic tube sound..Where I hear a HUGE difference is when the volume goes WAYYY up,where my tube amp runs out of gas & becomes glassy & hard the Creek amp REALLY loved the volume,pressurizing the 8" woofer & decent size cabinets of the M30.1 monitors like I haven't heard since I bought them...I'm starting to get a good view of SS/Tube systems... |
@freediver glad to hear.
I have been LOVING my Hegel integrated. That said, got the itch for tubes again so I decided to try a Raven Nighthawk MKIII integrated. The manufacturer claims that its 20 watts will sound like 100 solid state watts. I've also read someone replacing their 150 watt SS amp with it.
Well, I didn't have anything remotely close to the same experience. It sounded very anemic and thin compared to the weight and body my Hegel has at "only" 75 watts into 8ohms. Bass was tighter, faster with more grip and went lower. Everything was better on my Hegel. I'm sure the Raven sounds wonderful on some other systems, but in mine that Hegel was King. |
HI OP, As many state, I too wanted to live the tube life, sweet rich and non fatiguing. My first toe in the tube water was PS Audio, where I trialed lower end stuff and ended up with BHK Preamp, BHK stereo amp and DS DAC. Both Amp and pre are 'hybrid tube designs'. But I missed the clarity and resolution of other SS stuff I had heard. I demo'd in my home the McIntosh C2700 tube pre, both with my BHK amp and my SS Classe amp. It was (to me) less clear and resolving than the BHK preamp. Then I purchased the AudioNet Pre1 G3. Wow. clarity and resolution, non fatiguing etc. Just takes better SS stuff to get there. Sold all of my PS audio, and now I hear all the little things, tingly things, soundstage etc. I do hear uber expensive tube stuff is amazing, but for me, happy with the SS and happy to not mess with tubes. The AudioNet stuff is awesome, and I have on order the Pre G2 and the mono Amps, trading up from the Pre 1 G3 and selling my Classe CA-2300, which is nice, but not as nice. Oh... and the background is now dead quiet...not so with the PS stuff at all. I could not handle the background noise. Ken |
I do have issues with my tube smartphone...it seems to be burning a hole in my pants, and waiting 40 seconds to answer a call while the tubes warm up seems to result in a lot of missed calls...it does sound better though. |
Well I've got about 20 hours listening in with the new amp.It's good,a LOT better than I expected,especially regarding imaging & staging, but it just doesn't quite have that "organic"feel.Drums especially don't have that hear into the skin tone the tube amp has.I do notice leading edge dynamics seem crisper,hearing farther into the string just as the note is struck on guitars,sustain seems a touch better as well...One thing I find funny is the headphone circuit is WONDERFUL,every bit as good as the triode driven circuit in the Cayin..Here the drums DO have that organic feel I'm missing from speakers..I wonder why the difference?
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I do have issues with my tube smartphone...it seems to be burning a hole in my pants, and waiting 40 seconds to answer a call while the tubes warm up seems to result in a lot of missed calls...it does sound better though. This is nothing. You should see the problems with the turntable in my car. |
Today I demo’d the Hegel H590 driving Harbeth M40.2’s,I would KILL to have room for those speakers but I digress..After I got home I pulled the Creek Evo50a out & put the Cayin CS55 back in..Nothing else was changed.WTH was I EVER thinking.There was a reason 12+years ago I went over to tubes..
IMO you can throw $$$ after $$$ on SS chasing the "sounds like tubes"sound & you will never get there,there is no substitute!
PS:I need to hear a good hybrid... |
