I have D7s as well and run all tubes in my front end through a Pass XA30.8. I too am currently using a Hana SL I have a Zesto Allassa SUT that I'm really happy with in that it provides fantastic flexibility and doesn't alter the sound at all to my ears. I'm not sure the SUT is your solution unless you think your phono signal is being altered somewhere?
How long have you had the D7s? They take quite a while to run in and I don't think the higher frequencies really rounded out until I put over 200 hrs on them. I never noticed a difference in the character of the speakers between digital and analog sources. What phono pre are you using? I have a Herron VTPH-2A and couldn't be happier with the overall synergy. |
Was just a thread on SUT's. Loading and matching where somewhat discussed. Also a link which is very informative.
That being said get a Denon 103 not the 103 r. It is cheap and is very full bodied. Talk to Dave at intact audio. He can wind anything. Most people only know and care about Hi Fi. Sounds like you want the beauty of what real music contains.
Enjoy the ride
Tom
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While I’ve never heard the D7s specifically I’ve heard a good few Spendor models, but never one with "threadbare" upper mids and lower highs or lacking meat on the bones, as this is where Spendor generally really shines.
I’m very tempted to blame the room acoustics rather than the speakers if such is the case, in which case a SUT will do nada unless you use it to provoke just the bloated sound you don’t want.
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I have owned many fine speakers since the 1970's and sold high end audio until the early 2000's. There has been a seismic shift towards analytical sound in the effort to chase details in my mind since that time. I have a nice digital frontend, but it is only for background listening as I still far and away prefer my analog rig to relax and enjoy my music.
There is no doubt my room is a weak link in my system, but in 30 years listening in this very room, I have never experienced this type of tipped up sound. It is not a small room measuring 16 by 24 with 10' ceilings, with a fair amount of soft, somewhat plush furnishings. These speakers were so hyped I thought it would be an obvious fit as I have always enjoyed many different British speakers.
The most logical fix is to replace the speakers, but in this day and age that is less easy as we have fewer and fewer quality B&M operations.
Looking for a band aid that probably doesn't exist in this case.
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Forget the SUT. Sell the D7's and get a pair of Ohm Walsh 2000's. Room-filling, 3-D sound with solid bass! $2800 a pair. I own a pair of older Walsh's and they do indeed deliver the "magic"! |
To repeat an earlier question, what phono stage are you using? And are you presently using a SUT; and if so what model is it, and how long is the cable between it and the phono stage? (I ask the latter question because capacitance on the output side of a SUT will be presented to the cartridge multiplied by the square of the SUT's turns ratio, and hence much higher than it actually is).
Regards,
-- Al
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@mckinneymike I agree 100% with your evaluation and can confirm from my own listening experience. I compared the D7s directly against Classic 100s, same room, same system, same (long) afternoon, same music. For me, the Classic 100s were significantly superior; there was, as the saying goes, a lot more "there, there", and the highs were perfectly integrated in the whole. |
almarg,
I am using an Allnic 1201 at this time. No SUT at this time. |
The one technical issue I see in pairing the Allnic 1201 with the Hana SL is a relatively minor one, I believe, and one that I suspect is probably not a significant contributor to the specific sonic issues you have described. But it further reinforces the notion that using an external SUT is not the way to go in trying to resolve those issues.
Specifically, the cartridge specs provide a minimum load impedance recommendation of 400 ohms. If you are using the lowest gain setting of the 1201’s built-in SUTs (22 db) the cartridge will be presented with a load impedance of 280 ohms, well under the minimum recommendation. And if you are using any of the higher gain settings of the built-in SUTs that load impedance will be even lower.
And a similar situation would most likely arise if you were to use an external SUT which provides sufficient gain for your 0.5 mv cartridge.
So that is one more reason why as others have suggested it would be best to pursue other approaches to resolving the issue.
Good luck. Regards,
-- Al
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@almarg makes a good point here as I know this Hana SL cart pretty well. My phono stage provides 43dB gain and then I add 18dB with my SUT to bring it up to 61dB. I set the load right at 400 ohms and it sounds fabulous. I can attest that it sounds pretty lousy at anything below 400 ohms. |
My wife runs from the room when I try to spin any LP's.
LOL :) |
If you’re not happy with the speakers then chasing upstream solutions seems like a band-aid fix. Might just have to bite the bullet, sell, and retry there.
As far as SUT’s go, the Bob’s Devices Sky series has a pretty meaty, powerful and warm sound. Definitely on the opposite side of spectrum from the Lundahl LL 1931, which has a crystalline, detailed and slightly bright sound by comparison.
Even with a Herron VTPH-2A or VAC Renaissance SE phono stage, using the Sky SUT for MC stage will make the sound warmer, more dynamic, and hit harder. |
The Bob's Sky and the Music First Baby Reference are a couple that I am interested in trying.
I hate to resell these speakers so soon after purchase, but it is the best plan of action. I am simply disappointed my expectations were so far from the reality, here in my room.
Without this being settled choosing any SUT would not be a wise decision right now. Thanks to all for your input. |
@three_easy_payments, thanks for your informative comment!
I would add for the record that the moving magnet input of the OP’s phono stage provides 5 db less gain than is provided by your VTPH-2A, so he would need a SUT gain of 23 db to bring the signal level at the output of the phono stage to the same point as you have with your 18 db SUT. Which would result in presenting the cartridge with an even lower impedance than the 280 ohms his phono stage presents when its built-in SUTs are used at their lowest gain/highest impedance setting. Also, although I have no experience with Hana cartridges I’m guessing that the consequences of excessive loading would mainly involve some combination of compromises to dynamics, resolution of detail, and transient response. Which would seem to be pretty much the opposite of the issues the OP has reported. So, again, that reinforces the notion that the root cause of the problem is elsewhere. Best regards, -- Al |
@mckinneymike: given the corroborating evidence from twoleftears I have no choice but to retract my tentative conclusion. I have to it makes me want to hunt down a set of D7s, just so I can later say that I once heard an anaemic-sounding pair of Spendors. Something I really didn’t think existed.
On the Hana SL, I have to say that it sounded very nice indeed in my system when loaded @ 278Ohm with my Allnic H-1202/AUT-2000.
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Sell the D7’s and buy a pair of Spendor Classic speakers. I used SP100’s for over 15 years and they are very satisfying. SP 1/2e or 2/3e have some similar qualities. Avoid the R series because they mark the move away from the Classic sound and towards the modern analytical sound. |
I’m not sure the SUT is the right component in the chain to tweak the issues you have described, but a cartridge is the most important in analog chain (imo). Maybe Hanna is not your type of sound? Read more about Miyajima Shilabe or Kansui cartridges, and US importer will give you a free trial !!! So you can test it on your wife :)) |
You could try an active head-amp like the PICCOLO2, which would make things a bit more punchy. It's very neutral tonally though, so you don't get the organics that come from a good SUT. On the other hand, it makes dialing in loading super easy. |
I agree with chakster. An SUT is not going to overcome the sound of your speakers. No other components in your system will directly affect the sound as much as your speakers. If you don't like 'em, change 'em.
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Dear @mckinneymike : SUT is not the solution about " meat on the bones ".
Your problem belongs to many tubes in your electronics, tubes just can't do it. Chnge the mp by a good SS unit as has @three_easy_payments who owns same speakers and cartridge.
Please re-read the first post in your thread.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
mckinneymike, hi. I just stumbled on your thread. I have recently been listening to some speakers including the Spendor D7's, so I think I have something to add here. Based on my recent listening tests, I believe the Spendor D7's are your problem. They do not give the typical UK sound that you have enjoyed in the past. As others have said, an SUT change is unlikely to fix your problem. And the comment above about tube amplification is IMO, largely irrelevant. Difficult as it is, I suggest selling your D7's and finding speakers that match your room and your preferences. As you say yourself, "there has been a seismic shift towards analytical sound in the effort to chase details...". I have directly compared, back to back in the same system, Spendor S8e's against Spendor D7's. These 2 models are less than 10 years apart but the difference in the sonic signature between them is large. The D7's are significantly brighter, more tipped up and less relaxing. IMO, many of the D7 reviews are off the mark and fail to draw adequate attention to the unforgiving nature of the tweeter. The D7 tweeter is too obvious, too strong and too unforgiving of poor recordings for my taste. I preferred the older Spendor S8e's. Although not cheap, I also compared the Devore Super Nines to the Spendor D7's in the same evaluation, and much preferred the balance of the Super Nines - which was insightful, detailed but too bright. Another British option that might work with your room is the latest Proac D30RS. With speakers, it's definitely best to stay disciplined and listen before you buy -preferably at home - if you can. Good luck. |
Denon AU-S1. 3 kg. ''meat'' and universal kind: usable from 2 Ohms
till 40 Ohms. Such succes that is still available (LPgear) while
an special MC cart is produced to match this SUT: DL-S1.
Both can be acquired for about $2000.
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You could try a few cheap fixes.
Tube roll your phono stage.
Add a DIY felt ring around the dome on the tweeters.
Solid core speaker cables.
Drop your tonearm a fraction. |
