Two things come to mind. First is that a sub doesn't give you punch, that is higher up in frequency. Second, I'm sorry to say is the rest of your system. You just aren't going to get what you are looking for from a bookshelf speaker and a low watt "home theater amp". Not so sure about your source or sub feed but it doesn't sound ideal.
subwoofer with zero punch... help
I'm a noob go easy but give me the technicals(if any) because I want to learn. I was very excited to get that extra grunt and some good punch from kick drums out of my new subwoofer when it arrived. I was severely disappointed when I plugged it in. It only sounds bloated and boomy and there is ZERO amount of punch or slam to speak of. And I do mean zero! I've had 6in car speakers that "hit" harder than this thing. It'll shake everything like crazy but there is no definition to any of it. I need help diagnosing where my issue is because I don't think its the sub itself. lol
Sub: SVS SB-4000
Speakers: Klipsch RP-600M (these sounded great on their own)
Amp: ~90s JVC 70w/channel home theater amp
input: ~$100 headphone DAC and playback from TIDAL
Room: concrete floor basement 26ft x 14ft x 7ft drop ceiling with R19 in the floor joists, full cover thin carpet, lots of furniture and a decent amount of cheap sound absorption foam.
Other Notes about setup:
1.Sub signal is RCA out of headphone jack, I know its not ideal but splitting rca out of my DAC was worse
2.This is temporary residence, I plan to move but I want to know what my problem is before I bring my issues with me to a new listening space.
3. The acoustic foam was an attempt to kill the drone from a crypto mining rig which it was successful in accomplishing.
What I tried so far: Tuned the eq for the sub with a tone generator. Found that 65hz was nearly silent, I boosted that and bumped the LPF to 75hz (12db slope). I also tried various boosts and cuts between 65 and 140hz on the whole system but everything sounded worse. For reference I have 4in woofer monitors at my desk with a little Polk 8 in woofer and it "punches" harder than the SVS 4000. Like the title says.... Help...
Sub: SVS SB-4000
Speakers: Klipsch RP-600M (these sounded great on their own)
Amp: ~90s JVC 70w/channel home theater amp
input: ~$100 headphone DAC and playback from TIDAL
Room: concrete floor basement 26ft x 14ft x 7ft drop ceiling with R19 in the floor joists, full cover thin carpet, lots of furniture and a decent amount of cheap sound absorption foam.
Other Notes about setup:
1.Sub signal is RCA out of headphone jack, I know its not ideal but splitting rca out of my DAC was worse
2.This is temporary residence, I plan to move but I want to know what my problem is before I bring my issues with me to a new listening space.
3. The acoustic foam was an attempt to kill the drone from a crypto mining rig which it was successful in accomplishing.
What I tried so far: Tuned the eq for the sub with a tone generator. Found that 65hz was nearly silent, I boosted that and bumped the LPF to 75hz (12db slope). I also tried various boosts and cuts between 65 and 140hz on the whole system but everything sounded worse. For reference I have 4in woofer monitors at my desk with a little Polk 8 in woofer and it "punches" harder than the SVS 4000. Like the title says.... Help...
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You have bookshelf speakers with subs. What this means, you have midrange and top end covered with the bookshelf speakers, and you have low bass covered with the sub. Unfortunately this leaves you with a BIG GAP right in the power region where you are looking for slam. The whole point of subs is just what you're hearing. Use even more and the boominess will be gone, the bass will be deeper, and more powerful, but only a little more articulate since most of that comes from frequencies above where the subs come in. What you need my friend are called Tekton Double Impacts. |
I would try to get a better signal to the sub and of course break the silly thing in a bit. Does that unit have speaker level signal in? That would help if you have that option. 26X14 with a 7 foot ceiling? Man oh man that’s REAL tough. LOL Cut the room in half.. I bet in a nearfield, things would act a whole lot better.. Drop ceilings and insulation above that R19. I think it’s a HUGE BASS trap.. What are the ceiling panels made from.. LDF, low Density fiber. I think the room is too dead.. Clap test is real dead isn’t it.. 4 x 4 foot HARD panel on the front wall should do the trick, pretty close.. Maybe a 4 x 4 HARD panel over your head just forward of the seated position. Open a 4 x 4 area on the floor in front of you also. Just check.. A lot of absorption? Cut the room in half... Really.. and ONE sub in that large of space, No way to pressure the room.. |
You are misinformed, respectfully. Subs are NOT meant to provide "punch." They are only supposed to provide otherwise unavailable low freqs. As MC noted, they are not designed cover the "higher" lows that are non existant in your "mains." Sorry but you can’t get there from here. I get my "punch" from 8" sealed woofers, NOT a sub array. |
I’m tellin’ you there is a HUGE bass trap over the WHOLE room.. Drop LDF panels and R19 above that between joist. It’s the biggest bass trap in history.. LOL How do you make bass when the wave cant MOVE 12" without being absorbed into the ceiling?.. Ok maybe a slight exaggeration.. :-) But how long are BASS waves, and how tall is it before LGF panels? 7 feet.. You see how those waves are being KILLED. Not much below a 7 foot wave, 1-200hz maybe.. I don't know I'd have to look it up...The length.. Just sayin’ |
Thanks everyone! You were kinder than i expected, to be honest, given the blatantly wrong ideas I held. Clap test is real dead isn’t itYeah its pretty dead. its a very dead room overall. So it appears there were several things at play here which I kind of expected. Here is a summary of what I have taken away so far. 1. The LDF drop ceiling and R19 is creating an enormous bass trap that is sucking the life out of the woofer. And too large of a room. 2. I have been using and understanding subwoofers wrong my entire life. Always pushing the LPF too high to add punch up at higher frequencies than it was designed to do. Punch/ kick ~(70hz-140hz) needs to come from 6 to 8 in woofers in large cabinets with ample power to run them. My bookshelf speakers will never suffice and will always leave a gap/dip between them 3. non ideal sub out signal.(I already knew this but its good to have confirmation) further questions: What would be an okay room? I may be building a home in the near-ish future and would have my choice for size and layout. Mainly i'm looking for rough dimensions. Ill do research on what treatment to put in it, and how to construct it. I am very lost when it comes to amplifier brands. I know and like the lower end Schiit offerings but idk where to look for comparable equipment. |
@OP, I think you should do some Googling on audio room design. There have been more than a few threads here on Audiogon on that subject, as well. I would also suggest going to as many dealers as possible. Audition as much equipment as you can. Get a feel for what you want/like. Make a budget (that you will probably max out) and get the system of your dreams. Though well intentioned, some of the information you might gather here should be taken with a grain of salt. My 2 cents... B PS- If you are building a new home, don't forget about the landscape. |
The science was done at the University of Salford, School of Acoustics. The noted Cox teaches and researches there. Spoiler alert: it's not snake oil, like most of what you read. Mechanics of build is available in several places. Absolute Sound (IIRC) about two years ago, and manufacturer's websites are good. Go for the real goods from industrial suppliers like Pabco, which IIRC, manufactures Quietrock. I use Quietrock 545, and recommend it enthusiastically. Great company too. |
For amps, I build my own for the most part. But when I want clean, good sounding, bullet proof power at a reasonable cost, I always use Bryston. Check out their factory rebuilds by calling them. I emailed them about a month ago on Sunday. The VP responded Monday morning. I phoned him that same morning.Then I bought a factory reconditioned unit that afternoon, with an additional 5 YEAR WARRANTEE. At a reasonable price. |
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Two things jumped out at me: First: Found that 65hz was nearly silentThis is clearly a bass NULL or bass node due to the size of your room. Second: The LDF drop ceiling and R19 is creating an enormous bass trap that is sucking the life out of the woofer.Bass traps do not work like this. Bass traps DO NOT suck the life out of the woofer. You can over-deaden a room with too much acoustic treatment, but this is mostly with the midrange and high frequencies. It's very easy to put too much acoustic absorption into a room and this will definitely suck the life/excitement out of the room. But once again, this has to do with high frequencies. If you look at the exact size of the room ( 26X14 with a 7 foot ceiling), Amroc shows a primary bass node right at 65 Hz: https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc?l=26&w=14&h=7&ft=true&r60=0.6 I have really bad bass nulls in my own room and the only thing that I found that really affected this was tuned membrane bass traps. If you want to treat the room that you are in, I would start stacking tuned membrane bass traps in the rear corners. GIK Acoustics makes their Scopus tuned membrane bass traps. They have a T70 that you can just buy online at $199, or you can call them and have them custom make a T65 (they will custom make for any frequency). The cost will not really be any different. |
Running the sub from your headphone jack? Uh, no. If you're using a home theater receiver, it should have a subwoofer out. Use that. Which input are you using on the sub? If you're using the LFE, try the left (line level) input. As others have said, the "punch" you're looking for is more in the mid-bass. A sub is for lower frequencies. I have owned a number of SVS subs and currently have a pair of SB-13 Ultras (similar to your SB-4000) in my 4 subwoofer distributed bass array. The sub you have is by far the best component in your system. The sub is not the problem. |
As others have said, the "punch" you're looking for is more in the mid-bass. A sub is for lower frequencies.I don't know that I necessarily agree with this. Yes, there is a definite "punch" in the midbass (somewhere between 100 and 150 Hz). However, there is an area of bass right around the 60-70 Hz area where it is a very strong and beefy satisfying sound that you can feel. You could say there is punch missing in this area as well. |
Semantics perhaps. What one person considers "punch" someone else might not. I use 4 subs in my system and it is definitely a tactile experience. HSU used to make a "mid-bass module" (MBM-12). I have one that I use for movies, it adds that "punch", and gives a little more excitement to explosions, car crashes, depth charges, Transformers, etc. I don't use it for music, but maybe a used one would be the ticket for the OP. |