Sub-woofer connection question

In my experience the high level inputs sound better because it integrates better with your main speakers. I have the JL Audio D110 subwoofer and it clearly sounds better using the high level connections- just connect the cables at your amplifier in parallel with the main speaker leads and terminate into the supplied connector plug.
REL makes the claim that this method is preferred for better blending and integration and I agree with them.
What are your main speakers?
There is a process you need to follow for perfect integration and I would be happy to help.   You do not need any external crossovers etc. to make this work.  
All main speakers have a natural low frequency roll off point (acoustic crossover)  and some have a built in high pass filter.  

Cleeds.
You could be correct about the tape loop. I have a Rogue Pharaoh integrated with no way to separate the pre from the power section of the amp. I have a high level processor loop with a set of inputs and outputs like a tape loop. The Vandersteen X-2 crossover is nothing more than a pair of high quality caps with a male RCA jack at one end and a female RCA jack at the other end. All you need is one pair of short interconnects to complete the connection to the loops ins and outs. This crossover merely attenuates the signal in the loop to be 6db down starting at 80 Hz. The only connection to the sub(s) is the speaker wires that come off the main speaker terminals of the integrated amp. Thus volume is controlled by the main amps volume control to the main speakers and sub with unity gain. Does this make sense? As I said before the attenuated bass signals are then restored to their proper level by the subs internal 300 watt amplifier.

mr_m

You merely place this crossover between preamp and power amp. If you have an integrated amp or receiver, you can insert them in a processor loop or tape loop

It's not a good idea to put an xover in a tape loop, if only because its level won't be controlled by the preamp's volume control.

Thanks mr_m,   my integrated amp doesn't have a tape loop, but I understand the function of the crossover.   I was looking at some external crossovers, like the one that B&W sell, and at $3k it would be more than I have in all the rest of my components put together.

So at some point, if I ever move up to separate components and better speakers, I will probably go that route.

But for now I am pretty happy with what I have, and am enjoying playing my (newly cleaned) LPs again after a couple decades.

Thanks again for taking the time to write such a long and detailed and helpful reply.

Eric

Some people want to hear their sub(s) contribute something to the sound. Or in other words, they want to hear the subwoofer to "woof"so to speak. This may be ok for HT, but not really good for accurate 2 channel sound. I have Vandersteen speakers and recently purchased their 2Wq subwoofer. it contributed greatly to the sound of my system. Not so much that I could actually hear the sub, but it relieved the extra stress on my main amplifier. Schubert is right about the sub letting him forget everything below 80 hz. In 2 channel, this is the subs main purpose. The overall gain in SQ is more air and transparency in sound, greater soundstage width and depth and greater dynamics. The handful of hertz added to the bottom octave is just icing on the cake. Vandersteens sub is powered with an internal 300 watt amplifier. The hookup to your system is somewhat complex, but well worth the effort. You first have to determine the impedance input of your main amp. This normally is in the owner's manual or you can call the manufacturer and find out. Once you have that number , Vandersteen can send you a pair of crossovers approx. half of the input impedance of your amp. You merely place this crossover between preamp and power amp. If you have an integrated amp or receiver, you can insert them in a processor loop or tape loop. The next step is hook the supplied speaker cable from your main amps speaker terminals along with the cables that go to your main speakers. And yes, you can hook both main speaker cables and sub cables together on the one set of main terminals on your amp. Hook the other end of the supplied wires that came with the sub to the subs amp terminals. The terminals on the sub are banana jacks. You now have a direct connection from your main amp to the subs amp. The crossover  you put in will attenuate everything below 80 hz. at minus 6db per octave, or in other words,  a first order type of crossover. This is what relieves all the stress on your main amp and should make a vast improvement in it self. The attenuated frequencies 80 hz and below are still sent to the subs amp. There these frequencies are restored to their normal levels via the sub, as they should be.You also have controls on back of the sub for the volume level and a unique "Q" control, which can make the bass as tight or loose sounding as you prefer. I know this sounds quite complex and please forgive me if I have made any mistakes or left anything important out for those whom are really "in the know." But this method of sub hookup integrates and seamlessly blends the sub(s) with the main speakers which I feel is extremely important. Remember, this is just all my opinion and would hope it would be of some help to the OP.

Well, I did a bunch of A-B listening, and decided the sub-woofer was not adding enough to the sound to make it worth the cost, and the prospective cost and effort of running a cable under the floor from my amp to the sub, so I returned it for store credit!     I am happy with just the sound of my speakers, but I thank you all for replying to my original post!

Eric

Some people like atomic bomb base , some don't .
All a sub can do for me is let my speakers forget everything below 80hz .

Some sub manufacturers like REL suggest speaker level for better sound. On my Velodyne dd10+ Pair I think I like speaker level better, but I should try the test again. However the amps are extra special (hybrid BHK300’s - dealer for amps and subs) so that could be part of the magic.
I also run separate cables from the amp instead of piggybacking from the speaker.  
I run my mains full range and bring in the subs at 30-40 hZ.  

almarg wrote:

But the JL Audio manual does not specify one method over the other. 

Actually, it does. On page 16 of the manual it states as follows:

Speaker Level Inputs: This feature is included for convenience when needing to connect the Dominion™ to a receiver or integrated amplifier that only offers speaker level outputs. The use of this feature is only recommended when no suitable line-level signal is available.

Dang, I missed that, thanks.    So I will continue to use the RCA pre-out from my amp to the RCA in on the subs.    Thanks!

But the JL Audio manual does not specify one method over the other.

Actually, it does. On page 16 of the manual it states as follows:

Speaker Level Inputs: This feature is included for convenience when needing to connect the Dominion™ to a receiver or integrated amplifier that only offers speaker level outputs. The use of this feature is only recommended when no suitable line-level signal is available.

One reason for that recommendation might be that the "grounded/isolated switch" the sub provides, which can be useful if hum issues are present, affects just the RCA inputs and not the speaker-level inputs.

On the other hand, it is possible that the 10K impedance of the sub’s RCA inputs might be too low to be sonically optimal for the integrated amp’s pre-outs. (The output impedance of the pre-outs does not appear to be specified). Also, some people believe that in general it is best to provide the same signal to a sub as to the main speakers. So it would be preferable to evaluate it both ways.

Regards,
-- Al

agree with the above--unless the amp has inboard bass management you're not likely to hear a huge difference between the connection methods; however i'd opt for the rca out, as there's some sense that the rca cables will provide superior shielding/noise resistance.

That's what I was wondering about, and why I tried the speaker-wire connection first.  I was hoping that if I used the sub in parallel with the satellites, that the highs and mids would go one way and the lows would go the other way (to the sub).

I guess that shows my ignorance of how these things work...

I connected it this morning back to the RCA R&L method and I guess I will keep it that way out of simplicity.

Thanks for the replies,

Eric

That sub has no high pass filter,so anyway you decide to hook it up the speakers will still be running full range.

Why not try both ways and see what sounds best to you? If there is an RCA out as you state, I'd go with that.