Streaming Sound Quality - Want the very best sound quality? Network Acoustics ENO...

When using my DejaVu server as the Roon core and the Metrum Ambre as the Roon player, I wonder what the effect would be to move the ENO between the DejaVu and the Ambre, instead of having the ENO on the upstream side of the DejaVu where it is now? I would be interested whether anyone else who is running separate devices for their Roon core and player is using two ENOs, one in front of the server/core and one between the core device and the player?

Also, have any of you tried this network switch? Around $300 gets you a linear DC Power Supply and OCXO clock, which is said to be an improvement over the TCXO clock in the Bonn N8 and EE8 switches.  For those who want to spend more, there are more expensive OCXO switches such as this one and this one.

My system when I am able to use it again:

Wifi to TP Link 6500 wifi extender (initial trial as an option)

Meicord Opal ethernet cable to modded Cisco 2960 switch with lps

Meicord Opal to Project Stream Box S2 Ultra

Mad Scientist Black Magic USB to M2Tech Evo 2/Supply/Clock

Black Cat Silverstar to Dac.

The ENO Ag filter is a little out of reach at present, having bought many things over the last 6 months. I’m not wanting to go the optical route, or EtherRegen, but aware my system as it is will need some filtering. Have heard mixed reviews of the SOtM ISO Cat 6. Also considering an Acoustic Revive (either RLT-1 or RL1-GB Triple C).

@lalitk You couldn't get much more clutter free than server with optical out to streamer/usb renderer with optical in to dac.

It should be noted that Network Acoustics themselves strongly recommend using a network switch between your internet source and your ENO filter.  I've tried both variations in my home systems (using an ENO filter with and without the network switch) and noticed a much bigger difference with the switch installed.  To be clear, however, the switch + ENO filter was materially better than just using the switch alone.

@dbb

Thanks for asking.  I am not saying that, but I should explain:

I tried ENO alone and then *added* EE switch and Supracat, so all three devices were in-network.

I’ve not yet removed the ENO to evaluate the EE and Supra Cat alone, which is unusual for me.  Here’s why I didn’t bother removing ENO Ag-yet:  1) I bought all three items used so there is no return-clock ticking and the money at stake is much less than cost of new, 2. More resolving speakers will arrive later this month which could (should) be better at revealing differences, so final assessments of network items cannot be made until then.  Too, it’s pretty likely I step up my pre and dac game with new pieces after speakers are broken in, 3. It will be quite a surprise if I find that ENO Ag adds nothing compared with EE and Supra Cat 8 without out ENO Ag when I do get around to removing it from the network.  And 4. as @grannyring said in his OP: “I am so ecstatic with my sound that I don’t want to touch it!”

“I’ll still maintain the most beneficial network improvements come post server, which means two computer setup, aka separate server feeding usb renderer/roon endpoint/streamer.”

I respectfully disagree. There are other streamlined options to isolate the noise without ‘cluttering’ your space. Choosing a good server or streamer that specifically designed for audio is fundamental to the approach of clutter free streaming experience. Once you get that out of the way, then you can focus on DAC and noise filtering devices.

These results not surprising, unique results with unique setups. I bet you'd do better with the Acoustic Network ethernet cables, this based on other's reviews of them.  I've also experienced the benefits of better ethernet cables, having gone from generic through Supra, Wireworld and various Audioquest, finally settled on AQ Vodka as best in my setup. While ethernet cables may not have provided greatest benefit, they are still worthwhile investment.

I'll still maintain the most beneficial network improvements come post server, which means two computer setup, aka separate server feeding usb renderer/roon endpoint/streamer.

@rc22 

Just to be clear, are you saying that for you the supra cat 8 and the EE switch worked almost as well without  the Eno filter  in?

30 days ago I added the ENO silver filter **by itself** for about a week before adding an EE 8switch and Supra Cat 8 Ethernet cable between the switch and ENO. Note: I have no ethernet wall plates so I was able to use ENO Ag without an ethernet patch-cord. Cat 6 runs from my router/modem directly into my Zenith thru a small hole in the sheetrock of my music room. So I inserted cat 6 into ENO and ENO pigtail into Zentih. The result was disappointing.

The filter did provide a discernible improvement in SQ after a few days of settling in or cooking—if you will. But, the gain was too small, in my view. I will never know if an ethernet cable along with the filter would have provided a larger bump. But I can say that after adding the EE switch and Supra Cat 8 and allowing those to settle in a few days or perhaps even longer, I have been mightily impressed. Speaking with others about their experiences with ENO filters, switches and ethernet cables, it’s clear results vary.

I did remove everything once to do an A/B and it was better with than without.

But, I recommend evaluating it over a month or so. Thru different moods, lots of different music, some days away from your system, etc. As I’ve done so, the benefits of these products in network have become more apparent and they continue to surprise me.  Outstanding results.

I spent more time with the ENO over the weekend, which I added between the final Bonn N8 switch and my server (router>switch>converter>45 ft. of fiber>converter> Bonn N8>NA cable>ENO>server).  I like what I hear so far but the effect is subtle.

Thanks to comments by @sns, I tried a different streaming configuration by connecting an Ethernet cable from my Mojo DejaVu server to a Metrum Ambre (Roon endpoint/player) that I previously used in my system to deliver I2S into a Metrum DAC.  In this configuration, the DejaVu acts as the Roon server and the Ambre acts as the player and outputs AES/EBU to my Mojo EVO B4B DAC.  The two configurations I am comparing are:

• A: DejaVu is Roon server and player and outputs USB to the Mojo EVO B4B DAC
• B: DejaVu is Roon server and Metrum Ambre is Roon player and outputs AES/EBU into the Mojo EVO B4B DAC

It is easy to A/B this set up since all I need to do is change the selected endpoint in Roon between the Ambre and the Mojo DejaVu, and then toggle between the USB (DejaVu) and AES/EBU (Ambre) inputs on the EVO B4B DAC.

Initial impressions are that the Ambre is slightly more incisive and the DejaVu is slightly more fluid and maybe the slightest bit less dynamic.  However, both sound great, just slightly different. 

I also need to share that the impact is cumulative. It will take a couple of days before you hear it all. It’s simply the nature of how the filter works. It needs some time for it to be fully affective in your system. It builds over a short period of time. Typically no more than two days. My 6000th post. Oh my. Crazy

@hchilcoat - interesting that Benjamin recommended the ENO, maybe I am on the right track.  I appreciate @lalitk posting about it being for sale and since it was the Network Acoustics ENO Streaming System Ag on offer, I received both the ENO Ag filter and their 1M cable, which allows me to run the NA cable from my Bonn N8 switch to the ENO and then their short connected cable from the ENO to my DejaVu server.  The seller also included an ifi power supply to power a switch.

I do admit what I am hearing now sounds pretty damn good.  Neil Young at Carnegie Hall 1970 and Muscle Shoals: Small Town Big Sound both sound nuanced, spatial, and dynamic.  Not fully sure whether it sounds better than before but I believe it may and I am certainly pleased with what I hear.  I am running the set-up with router>short CAT8>switch>short CAT8>converter>45' of fiber>converter>short CAT8>Bonn N8 switch>NA cable>ENO>NA cable>streamer.  I can do the same thing but replace the "converter>45' of fiber>converter" with CAT8 Ethernet cable that is already in-place just not connected.  That removes the two converters and two power supplies.  I suspect that may be splitting hairs but I will try it.

I don't like small black boxes but in this case maybe I should have listened to @grannyring sooner since it sounds as if I am already one black box back from the latest and greatest.

@mitch2 I am following in your footsteps. Just recently added a Mojo Audio Deja Vu as well as a Mystigue EVO PRO to my system, as well as the Circle Labs P300/M200 Preamp/Amp combo. The Deja Vu is a refurbished unit with the JCAT XE USB and XE Net cards both with OCXO clocks . My router is far away and for a while I was using a wireless extender cpnnected to the music server to that with an ethernet cable. That worked ok I knew it wasn’t ideal. I recently moved to a new listening room that is on the other side of the house but not too hard to run a cable through my basement and through an existing hole in a listening room closet. Just got 100 foot run of terminated Cat 8 cable and rigged that up to get rid of the wireless set up and plugged directly to the Deja Vu from the Verizon router (I’ll shorten it when I get a more permanent hook up through in my wall). .

Very happy with the improvement in sound via ethernet cable via wireless. I will consider trying an ENO or perhaps the Muon to see if there is further improvement. Benjamin at Mojo didn’t think I needed any network switches with the JCAT XE Net card in place. but did suggest that I consider the ENO.

Hi all,

The ENO Ag and cable are connected and music is playing.  I have already tried it both ways (i.e., Ethernet cable vs. fiber cable) as recommended by @lalitk except that I am still running a very short Ethernet cable directly from the router to a Netgear switch prior to the 45-foot run to the area where my server and system are located.  I do like the simplicity of not having the two additional converters and their power supplies in the chain but did not initially hear noticeable differences between the long run of Ethernet vs. the long run of fiber.

The ENO clearly operates at 100 mbs as the lights on my Bonn N8 show amber instead of green as they do without the ENO in the chain.  Also, in order to use the fiber, I needed to change out my converters from MC200CM (1000 mbs) to MC100CM (100 mbs) in order for the ENO to successfully handshake with my server.

Regarding the ENO itself, I have not yet discerned what I would consider a noticeably significant difference in the sound of my system with or without the ENO in the chain.  I will have fun listening this weekend and will report back.

Nice post, I agree with your idea.  

@mitch2

Once you get ENO setup in your existing chain (as outlined in your first post), I would like you to experiment by simplifying the chain i.e. 45foot CAT8 from Orbi mesh router to Silent Angel Bonn N8 switch ➡️ ENO ➡️ Mojo server.
You may find, by eliminating 45Foot fibre optic cable run plus two Optical converters and Netgear switch, you actually prefer the SQ of your streaming setup. 

There are three issues at hand. Quality of usb out of server/streamer, combining processes within one box and separating server from streamer, aka two computer solution.

Many servers don't optimize usb out, take usb directly out from motherboard, this is subject to all the noise created from the many processes on motherboard. Now, some servers optimize usb out such as the Mojo with JCAT card or some may use Pink Faun, that takes care of that issue. As a matter of fact, I was contemplating the Mojo server as possible candidate for eventual replacement of my present server until Benjamin notified me he will no longer be manufacturing.

Next issue is single computer or server/streamer solution. In this case many more processes taking place within singular component, more noise means less resolution. Dividing up the processes between two components, separate server and streamer means less noise generated within each component. While that may be of some benefit, the greater benefit as I see it is the ability to optimize your network post server. With separate server one can do FMC or Eno post server where it does most good. Prior to server isn't treating noise generated within server and or server/streamer all in one unit.

With Opticalrendu one gets FMC, quality streamer and usb renderer all in one package. Noise eliminated with FMC, many choices of what to stream and usb optimization. One Femto clock is for network side, other Femto clock for usb, proprietary circuit board optimized for low noise.

As previously mentioned I've also modified my server for direct ethernet out which means no more detour back through another ethernet cable and switch. More direct path means less chance for noise to enter chain.

Ha! I get it. We are at a time in history where improvements and innovation in this space is a reality.  In the end, it is all very good for music streaming sound quality. 

@grannyring 

The new NA Muon ethernet filter and Ethernet cables are coming out the end of February. They are a nice step above the ENO line.  Both are wonderful. They will be offering both tiers the end of February.

You are killing me here! 🤔

This sub-industry requiring constant upgrades is one of the reasons I don't like small black boxes...the need for something new seems never-ending.  On one hand, I get that the digital world is constantly improving, and the sonic quality of the music coming from my system has certainly improved significantly over the past 5 years.  However, most to all of the sonic improvements to my system's digital playback have resulted from upgrading my DACs and servers, as well as the improved quality of streaming services, while I would classify the changes resulting from small black boxes and digital cables as sometimes audible but mostly underwhelming - particularly when compared with the hype and the higher and higher prices being charged for these items.  However, I hope I will be pleasantly surprised by the ENO Streaming System Ag.

@docknow Tail end is system end. The last noise producing component would be server or streamer, everything up to input to dac. Opticalrendu serves this purpose by eliminating noise at the last possible position in chain, it is usb renderer, streamer and network noise eliminator all in one.

@sns 

I see you're using FMC in front of Bonn switch and server, the most advantageous placement would be after, just before dac. Servers create noise, usb coming out of motherboard is not optimal. Have you ever tried this positioning of FMC? I've always found network upgrades most effective at tail end of network.

You have mentioned this before but I guess I don't understand.  My input choices between my server and DAC (both Mojo Audio) are USB, BNC, or AES/EBU, so I do not understand how I would use either FMC or Ethernet for that connection without some sort of converter.  The USB output from the server and USB input into the DAC are both well-regarded, optimized for audio, JCAT boards so USB is the connection recommended by Mojo Audio - the server/DAC manufacturer. 

I do have the option to put another type of Roon endpoint (Metrum Ambre) that I own between the server and DAC.  The connection would be from my server's Ethernet output into the Ambre.  I used the Ambre between my Antipodes DX server and Metrum Pavane/Adagio DACs so the DX would not be required to function as both the Roon core and Roon endpoint, and also because the Ambre outputs I2S, which was compatible with the Metrum DACs.  Is this the type of connection that you are talking about?  If I insert the Ambre between my server and DAC, then I will need to use coax or AES/EBU to connect from the Ambre to the Mojo Deja Vu DAC (since the Deja Vu does not support an I2S input).

For now, the FMC I use is for the 45-foot run from my router to the server. Although I haven't heard a significant difference between CAT8 and FMC for that 45 feet, the trade-offs are that FMC will not pick up RFI/EMI while using the CAT8 allows me to do away with two converters and their associated power supplies.  I do not have a clear favorite but I will first get the ENO set up and then try that comparison between FMC and CAT8 again to try and hear a difference.

@sns which is the tail end of the network?  Where it enters the house or the system end?

The new NA Muon ethernet filter and Ethernet cables are coming out the end of February. They are a nice step above the ENO line.  Both are wonderful. They will be offering both tiers the end of February. Just an FYI.  Great streaming upgrade options are coming out all the time.  This is a very good thing! 

@mitch2 I see you're using FMC in front of Bonn switch and server, the most advantageous placement would be after, just before dac. Servers create noise, usb coming out of motherboard is not optimal. Have you ever tried this positioning of FMC? I've always found network upgrades most effective at tail end of network.

You should also compare Eno and FMC both between server and dac

I'd like to see direct comparison of Eno vs FMC with Sonore Opticalrendu. I was seriously considering Eno filter, went with Opticalrendu based on it being only means of one hundred percent isolation. The rendu was substantial improvement on TPLink FMC powered by lps.

Ok, so I bit the bullet and the Network Acoustics ENO Ag ethernet filter and  streaming cable are now in the house.  Thanks to whoever (lalitk?) posted that the ENO filter and cable were available on USAM since I was able to purchase those.  The post from 1/22 seems to have been removed.  I am still skeptical that this will provide an improvement but I will hook it up this weekend and give it a solid try for a while.   The chain will be as follows:

• Orbi mesh router (main router unit directly connected to Xfinity cable in, and not one of the mesh satellites)
• short CAT8 cable
• Netgear switch with ifi PS
• short CAT8 cable
• optical converter
• 45 feet of fiber
• optical converter with HD Plex LPS
• short CAT8 cable
• Silent Angel Bonn N8 - TCXO Ethernet Switch with HD Plex LPS
• Network Acoustics Ag Ethernet cable 
• Network Acoustics Ag ENO filter
• Attached Network Acoustics ENO filter cable to Mojo Audio Deja Vu server
• USB to Mojo Audio EVO B4B 21 DAC
• Balanced cables out to preamp/amp etc.
• Optionally, I can run 45 feet of CAT8 directly between the two switches and not use the optical.  Since I have both the optical cable and CAT8 already wired directly from the area of the router to where my system is located, I will probably try the Ethernet cable in lieu of the optical cable and converters later during my evaluation of the ENO.  Thus far, I have not heard a noticeable difference between using the CAT8 cable between the switches, and the Ethernet cable with the two converters.

I've just been in contact with Rich, spoke with him about issues with audiophile switch I tried. Based on his input and good reviews here will be trying Eno filter in place of switch.

Would an Acoustic Revive RLI-1 do a similar job to the Eno filter?

I have limitations in my system due to available space, and having to stream using wifi. 

Thinking of getting one of these next year, to try and close the gap between ethernet and wifi connection. Worthwhile?

Wifi can be ok if you don‘t live too close to neighbours. Try e.g. an old Apple Airport Express

And thanks for the positioning suggestion of the Eno filter 

I will keep that in mind, but have already got a repeater, so will use that at present.

The repeater feeding my streamer by Meicord Opal will possibly be no worse than the streamer being fed a wifi signal?

@jerrybj,

Two suggestiins: the ENO filter should go in front rather than behind the Etherregen.

Rather than use a repeater use a mesh router or an Apple Airport. Repeaters pick up lots of noise from the power grid.

I have to use wifi to my streamer. Have a repeater with ethernet out.

Considering getting an Etheregen and Eno Ethernet Filter in the future.

My system would then be:

Wifi Repeater, EtheRegen, Eno Ethernet Filter, Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra, Hiface Evo 2 (with Evo Clock), LKS DA-004, Perreaux R200i, ATC SCM19v2.

A reasonable solution?

@arafiq

Your feedback solidifies that everything matters in a well put together audio system. I’m glad to hear all the recent additions yielding to superior listening experience and that’s what matters at the end of the day!

@grannyring I want to thank you for creating this thread. Based on your impressions, and other folks whose opinion I trust, I took the plunge and bought the Zenith MK3 along with the Eno AG package. At first, I didn’t think this combo was much better than opticalRendu (now in my study). But after putting over 75 hours on the Zenith, all I can say is that it has far, far exceeded my expectations.

You were spot on with your comments. The level of detail, tonality, dark background, and expansive soundstage I’m getting now is just out of this world. Each instrument has so much space around it, and the way each instrument comes into focus and then gradually fades into the same darkness is uncanny. Zero digital harshness and minimal distortion... I’m able to crank up the volume much higher than usual and still enjoy the music. The music just sounds so right and balanced top to bottom. I listened for 4 hours this afternoon and I don’t think I’ve ever felt more connected to my music. Thanks again for starting this thread.

I also want to thank @lalitk on his suggestion to try Supra Cat 8 ethernet cable. TBH, I wasn’t expecting much, but it has certainly added to the overall quality of sound I’m getting now.

You will be getting better SQ from your server/streamer now.  Good for you! 

Lalitk,

Thanks for the endorsement. I am looking forward to receiving the ENO Streaming system tomorrow .

@timo62 

Great call on recent additions. The USBIII cable is exemplary, one of the most natural and transparent cable gone through my system. I am no longer using their USB or ENO filter but wouldn’t hesitate recommending these fine products to anyone looking to improve their streaming experience. 

Grannyring,

I was in need of a Network Switch for my digital streaming , so I ordered and just received English Electric 8 Switch along with the upgraded iFi Audio iPower elite power supply. It has a 45 day trial period. 

Also took advantage of Network Acoustics 30 day trial period and ordered the Network Acoustics ENO Ag filter and ENO Ag streaming ethernet cable. 

While I was in the buying mode, I also thought I would try Network Acoustics" ENO USB Cable III.

Thanks for the suggestions again. Looking  forward to hearing the results of these new additions. 

I have already received the English Electric 8 Switch and ENO USB USB Cable III as of yesterday and placed in my system. Very impressed so far.

The Network Acoustics ENO Ag filter and ENO Ag streaming ethernet cable is due fo arrive tomorrow. Looking forward to adding this into my system.

Thanks @timo62 

@caglioti , happy you found more enjoyment from your music! Yes, it takes away glare and some digital artifacts for sure! 

Just got ENO and some Supra cat 8 today,  The 2 combined certainly made a difference, not huge at all, but definitely more “organic, analog” .  Definitely helped the sound of violins, my audio nemesis. Took away some of the edge. Ted YMMV

Grannyring, 

Great post on "Streaming Sound Quality". Thanks for sharing your experience with your process and what has worked for you.

I also have an Innuos Zenith Mk.3 , so I was very interested to read what has worked for you with improving streaming quality.