@fburkeen
I own a Node 130 and a system that is near-state-of-the-art as of the late 1980s. My turntable is a SOTA Star Sapphire with an ET-2 tonearm and Monster Cable Alpha Genesis 1000 cartridge. Using hi-res files from Qobuz, there is virtually no difference between the SQ from the Node and my turntable (I have compared the same album this way--a first pressing of David Crosby's If I Could Only Remember My Name, an LP on Harry Pearson's recommended list in The Absolute Sound .)
I did add an Denafrips Ares II DAC, but I don't think I could distinguish it from the Node alone in a blind test. I have about 40 years experience comparing audio products and producing/mixing/mastering recordings, so I have a well-trained ear, although admittedly some hearing loss from playing in live bands. I can still hear the difference between some cables and between CD-quality files and high res or LPs.
I enjoy the Node/Ares combination enough that I rarely listen to other sources.
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…”So what is your current vinyl rig and phonostage?”
As I said my vinyl rig sounds the same as my digital… on purpose, and coincidentally they cost about the same..
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Definitely a separate DAC. For about $1,000 a Denafrips Ares 12th, but really would recommend moving up one notch to the Denafrips Pontus II 12th. It punches WAY above it's weight, and for about $1,800 is good enough for a later upgrade to your streamer. I have had one for over 2 years, and adore it. Being an R2R ladder DAC, it is more laid back and not in your face.....more analog sounding, warm, inviting, vocals fleshed out, really involving.
I also added a Denafrips Iris DDC for about $500, and run I2S to the Pontus II....and that really upped the ante.....several here have done the same.
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I bought a NIB Bluesound Vault 2i for $700.
It sounds amazing streaming most any service.
The real beauty is that I can store my CD’s on its internal drive as FLAC files or a combination of several other formats.
MSRP of $1399 won’t break the bank.
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I'd like to renew the discussion a bit and focus more on where I'd want to look to get similar SQ to my vinyl setup.
For analog sound, I agree you're going to have to spend more and look a little farther afield. Adding this component makes it no longer an effort to dip your toe in the water to see if you enjoy the streaming experience, and now an effort to replicate the sound characteristics you like given a digital source.
You will need to look at combining a streamer with an analog-sounding DAC (e.g. my Neko Audio D100), or a streamer + DAC that provides that sound character (e.g. the Lumin X1) or that can simulate that sound (e.g. Weiss Roon-Ready DACs with vinyl DSP).
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The Bluesound Node is a good choice of streamer. It is easy to set up and use and has a good app, almost as good as SONOS. It has a decent DAC, but you might want to use a separate DAC and use one of the digital outputs from the Node to a separate DAC. It has a remote and a headphone jack and control LEDs for necessary feedback for setup and updates, although no display. It also has inputs so it can function as a sort of preamp (Peachtree uses it as such for one of its GaN amplifiers). If you are looking for a good DAC to mate with it, the Denefrips Ares 12th or Enyo are good choices or one of the newer S.M.S.L. DACs are good options. (Knowing you are coming from the AirTight-Devore tube and high sensitivity speaker part of the hobby, I can still recommend it.)
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I can hear John Cleese saying “And now for something completely different”…
@fburkeen you won’t likely get digital streams to sound just like your vinyl because many (most?) of those files will be drawn from different origins and, in many cases, not even the same master. Add to that the colorations inherent for older vinyl masters and it can become an either-or scenario. FWIW I think all the albums I heard as original production master reels (1960s-1980s) played on original Stüder production decks probably sounded better than any vinyl OR digital setup could muster 😉
The likeliest way to get sound indistinguishable from your turntable is to digitize your vinyl and play it from file storage. Streamed files can sound different from many/most (all?) of your albums because those tracks are different in specs from the “same” tracks on your albums, at least marginally and perhaps dramatically. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. It is a factor not best adjusted by one streamer model over another because streamer functions simply are not demonstrated to address such variables.
The suggestion by @ellajeanelle seems to me most inline with your present interest: use a computer you already have and are familiar with to trial multiple software and multiple streaming platforms instead of marrying yourself to one particular inexpensive (or expensive) software-x-hardware option. Multiple streaming platforms probably use many of the same (newer digital) source files, but since most do not state which pressing/master they’re serving you, confirming perceived differences can be a challenge.
What I’m getting at: if you compare several (vinyl) pressings over several decades of, say, a BB King album, you will hear surprisingly different versions. Some of his earliest pressings were on Crown IIRC; very polarized feelings about the QC of that label alone, never mind other labels some represses may be on. Whether or not some of those represses were done fully analogue or digitally would probably influence how you perceive the overall sound, too. And that’s all variation before even considering a fully digitized stream of said album.
You might get more info by trialing different software and services on (general purpose computer) gear you already own, instead of trialing one (software / OS) approach on gear you’d have to buy. If you buy a streamer now, you’re not trialing streaming as much as you’re trialing whether you like one given streamer model x and associated UI in your system.
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OP,
So what is your current vinyl rig and phonostage… and the rest of your system? We really need to know to be of any help. There is a place to put photos and ID your equipment under create virtual systems. That would be really helpful.
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I've heard a few streamers and in general think they sound very compressed and 2D. The depth and air of vinyl is completely absent I feel.
Sorry, but this seems a bit silly to me. How much do you have invested in your vinyl equipment? And you think investing 500 bucks on a cheap streamer is going to compare to a vinyl rig? Get real dude. Pony up for a good streamer or you’re just setting yourself up for disappointment.
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I'd like to renew the discussion a bit and focus more on where I'd want to look to get similar SQ to my vinyl setup. I've heard a few streamers and in general think they sound very compressed and 2D. The depth and air of vinyl is completely absent I feel. From what I read, you can get very analog-like resolution from digital, but the last vapors of signal are what I'm not sure of when you make it digital. I'd like to do some research and listen to something I'd actually be happy with back to back with vinyl on my setup.
I really don't know much about streamer/DAC separates or integrated. I'm going to try the Bluenote, but think I'll start looking for a higher SQ replacement now just in case. I like to get used equipment if I can, but it's not mandatory. Suggestions welcomed...
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OP -- you mentioned a desire to test drive a "modern interface." I think your idea of getting simple hardware (the Node at a good price on CL) is great. After you’ve had it for a month or two, and are familiar with the BluOS app, I’d encourage you, like @nekoaudio did, to do the free trial of Roon. If you’re the kind of person who can go down a rabbit hole of "XXX played bass on album YYY; what else did he play on?", "what else has ZZZ produced?", "I didn’t know AAA and BBB collaborated together", etc., then you will love Roon. Agree on Qobuz as a streaming subscription. Don’t get ambitious with upgrading hardware until you know you will like streaming. For me, it was game-changing...
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Thanks to all... The Node is on CL for 1/2 price. It's the current version (3) and essentially new. For the price I think I'll give it a try. I can put it in the shop later and stream some variety out there even if it doesn't lead to a better SQ streamer.
I really like the vinyl ritual and listening to an entire album or at least a side... even with the CD remote I tend to jump around and feel less satisfied when I'm done listening, so I'm really just seeing if this class of source is interesting or overly distracting for me at this point.
Thanks again
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The Bluesound Node is a decent inexpensive starting point to try streaming, but its user interface is just one of many options so the sound quality and user experience, which are the two most important parts of a streamer, aren't necessarily going to match what you are looking for. Particularly since you said i would be sound quality that sells you on it.
I recommend looking into, and trying out before buying anything if possible, the software of various products to first figure out if there's a user experience that appeals to you. Lumin, Auralic, Roon, Bluesound, etc. all have software you can download and for some of them, parts of the UI will work even if you haven't bought anything yet.
After that, figure out what hardware works with the software you like. Personally I'm a fan of Lumin hardware and the Roon software.
I do agree with others that Qobuz would be an excellent source. Versus other services that only offer lossy sound quality. Qobuz has their own app, of course, and will work over AirPlay and Google Cast.
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I may do that although I am pretty content with the sound. How is the audio quality better?
@ellajeanelle I have both Qobuz and Ultra HD Amazon and find Qobuz superior listening to the same recordings. It’s clearer, more 3 dimensional, more dynamic, and just better overall. Hey, it’s a free trial so why not? I will say that the Qobuz search function is not very good, but I’ll take that relatively minor hit for the better sound quality any day.
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I don’t know how you are with dipping toes in. But that is a ticket to spend a lot more money by incrementally climbing to get to where your satisfied with digital. well, at least that is the way it would work for me.
Let’s start with the current state of technology: Streaming can sound as good or better than your vinyl rig. If it sounds as good, then it is likely to completely change your life… for the better.
So if you have a cheap Walmart turntable and phonostage, then the BlueSound will sound better. Streamers / DACs generally conform to the same constrains that all the other components of a system do. In general, you must carefully research and choose wisely compatible equipment of the highest quality for the investment, and you get what you pay for.
My really good vinyl leg (see my virtual systems) sounds nearly identical to my digital end… and the investment level (TT / Phonostage and misc vs DAC and Streamer) is the same… and each roughly the same as preamp and amp.
So, it is really a great idea to add a digital end… but expect to be disappointed if you try it on the cheap.
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Correct. You can start with the node. You can later add a DAC and improve the sound quality or get a better single box solution or even separates. Streaming can sound really good but comes at at a cost just like vinyl. Think of bluesound node as an equivalent of a Rega P1 with the included cartridge. It’s a stepping stone.
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With Air Tight ATM-300 amp and DeVore O/96 speakers downstream…Node wouldn’t satisfy your appetite especially if you rely on its internal DAC. Node is a good starting option to get your feet wet in streaming. Buy a used Node for now and later step up to one of the offerings from Aurender, Innuous or Lumin.
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I could add that I'm partial to Blues and Vocals, but listen to almost everything genre wise. For me the air, soundstage, and musicality of my system are the key aspects. From what I read the node may not give me much on the first two, but is musical.
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@fburkeen I wouldn’t hold my breath. You’d need something better than the Bluesound. You will however get a feel for streaming capabilities with the enormous music library at your fingertips. That will be an interesting experience.
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Well Tempered Verselex, Shelter 501mk3, Line Magnetic LP-33 Phono stage... that's what I'd be comparing to.
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@fburkeen If you can share what your current front end is, it will be easier to say what you can expect from bluesound node. On its own, the node is just ok.
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soix: I may do that although I am pretty content with the sound. How is the audio quality better? Granted that some recordings sound better than others, as with any media, but the well recorded songs sound like they're playing live right in front of me!
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@ellajeanelle I’d encourage you to do a free trial of Qobuz and compare to Amazon (I have). I’m a Prime member too but still pay a few dollars more per month for Qobuz because IME Amazon’s “HD” quality ain’t there yet. FWIW.
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Here’s my short story:
I consider myself old school. I have been in this audio hobby since the early 80’s.
I am one of those that love knobs and hated anything with digital buttons.
My go to sources were mainly CD with an occasional vinyl record. In the past year or so I began getting curious about streaming, so I bought a DAC. There are many options for streaming out there, but I decided to use one of my laptops connected to the DAC via a USB cable to my preamp and power amps. Since I already paid for Amazon Prime, I decided to pay an extra $9.99 per month and get Amazon Music Unlimited HD to see what all the hype was all about.
I thought that I was going to be disappointed with the audio quality, but I was actually very impressed. Nothing was lacking and sounded better than any turntable or CD player that I had ever owned (dozens).
Ever since, I have literally not touched a record or CD other than to store away the ones that remained lingering throughout the house. I don’t foresee myself going back to records or CDs anytime soon and I am actually wondering what I should do with my extensive collection of media, which I now consider to be an eyesore taking up space in vain.
I have since purchased 5 more DACs, for a total of 6, one for each audio system in the house. I keep a USB cable attached to each one of my systems and just take the laptop along to the systems that doesn’t yet have it’s dedicated laptop and I am ready to go!
Over 100 million songs, great audio quality, the ability to make your own playlists and be introduced to an overwhelming library of new songs, artists, genres, not having to clean records or put away CD cases and the ability to do it all with the click of a mouse from a nice comfortable recliner. What’s there not to like?
Best thing that has happened in my audio journey. I don’t believe that you will be disappointed regardless of what speakers you have.
If I was in your shoes, I would first try a laptop connected to a DAC and connect the analog outputs of the DAC to your amp. The main thing to look for is the quality of the output stage of the DAC. Don’t pay much mind to the chips used. Now days they are all pretty good. Watch YouTube videos and go with a DAC that is described as "musical". Do pay attention to what connections you want the unit to have. No need to spend thousands on a DAC, the point of diminishing returns versus cost starts quite low, unlike other audio components.
I am sure you’ll get many suggestions on streaming services and equipment to use, but there is mine and I am very content! Best of luck!
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Streaming will change your music-loving life and will likely turn you into a streaming listener who plays an occasional LP. IMHO your system deserves much better than a Node. Buy this used Innuos Zen that has a very user-friendly interface, great sound, and you can even load your CDs into it and never have to spin another silver disc again. If you don’t fall in love with it you can just turn around and sell it for about what you paid, but you won’t. Best of luck.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650073521-innuos-zen-mk3-2tb-hdd-music-server/
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