Streamer observation / question to those who know

I am not denying that streamers are networking computers optimized to play audio, and encased in a box to make them look more like an audio component than a PC.

I used Apple Mac Minis, Apple Mac Books, and bog standard Dell laptops provided by my employer back when I was using computers as my streamers.

Thank you

I seems that many have compared PCs to streamers and based on their experience streamers have come out ahead and I respect and don’t deny that. I don’t have that experience so I’m relying on the AGon community to share and you have and I do appreciate it. Just for clarification what level of PC did you try?

But (There’s always a but)

While it’s true unoptimized computers do have overhead that competes with resources but streamers bottom line, are still computers just specialized. There are optimized OS for today’s computers that minimizes the overhead. Today’s computers no longer have parallel or serial ports so printing is just a driver that sends signals over USB or Ethernet (a digital signal like sound) and no longer compete with the motherboard’s physical resources. As far as video goes it can actually benefit sound quality as there is software that offloads processing to the much faster video GPU to upsample to frequencies unobtainable by most of today’s streamers. Specialized PCIe USB or I2S cards exist that further isolate the signals. Computers have three distinct voltages 12v, 5v and 3V and their are linear power supplies that can feed the proper voltages to the motherboard. As far as isolation it’s even possible to feed a linear powered device a fiber optic Ethernet signal and it feeds the DAC completely isolating it from any electrical noise generated by the source. None of this is plug and play yet. It requires computer knowledge of both hardware, software and networking. From what I’ve read this all works with Roon which is known for its interface but setup is pretty advanced. I was really hoping to hear from the HQplayer or the Optical Rendu guys who ether succeeded or failed at this. Thanks for allowing me to put this out there and icomments are encouraged so please help me as I’m wanting to learn.

To return to your OP, in the last paragraph you query whether a high end streamer can best a PC.  My answer, as someone who has compared them, is an unequivocal yes.  PCs simply aren’t optimized for sound reproduction.  They don’t have the power supply that dedicated streamers have, nor the quality of parts, and they isolate sound from the noisy environments that PCs live in.  Perhaps they might have less processing power-I don’t know if your assertion is correct- but all that processing power is dedicated to receiving a signal and passing it to a DAC.  It doesn’t have to worry about interfacing with a printer, or being able to do video processing, which takes a lot more firepower than audio

@mahler123

Most new DACs have standardized on I2S even though their is no standard???

Laiv Harmony supports 8 different formats internally

Holo Audio includes I2s even on their entry level Cyan

Sonnet DACs have it but use RJ45 not HDMI

Lamizator’s flagship Poseidon

Denifrips

PSAudio

and many others.

All I’m sayin is yes I understand that quality of build, isolation principles, power considerations, software interface are all factors but the worlds best buggy whip can be admired for it’s craftsmanship but it has become a relic not really a factor in today’s transportation industry.  Are today's high end streamers tomorrows buggy whips?

I use a Schiit URD (it does only Redbook) USB to Schiit's own "Nexus" input in a Bifrost 2/64. It works.

A high end streamer is built from the ground up to meticulously deal with every parameter that impacts the sound quality. Each aspect is considered by design, part choice, and location. This certainly includes processing, power supply, physical vibration. My streamer weighs 45 lbs… because of the massive case to dampen vibration, isolate interference, provide absolutely clean power (the audio circuits while playing are battery operated). Every minute detail is dealt with as if someone’s life depends on it.

The amount of design,  testing (the effect of each sub component on the sound quality), and manufacturing effort is enormous, with the result being of vastly superior sound. As a consequence models are not turned over every year like some design sent over to China for a manufacturing run. Somewhat like luxury cars… meticulous design and construction and years between fundamental design changes. Performance works like that as well… you get stunning performance which cannot be bested by inexpensive units because of the superior parts and design for many years.

As a consequence of above, a high end company will not put in a new, untested or experimental interconnect type. The first thing that would happen is someone would plug it into something that has substandard sound and their streamer would be associated with inferior sound.

I have owned and compared truly high end and good quality and budget audio equipment for fifty years and the bargains are the truly high end equipment that get you the very best performance a decade ahead of the more budget equipment and sound great far into the future as the budget and middle of the road stuff slowly get better.

I will preface this question by saying that I am not well versed in what goes into the design. construction or implementation of digital cables.

That being said, it seems to me that instead of dealing with the relative strengths and weaknesses of spdif, USB or I2S, why hasn't someone reinvented the wheel?

Surely someone can design a cable format and the required connectors that combine the best characteristics of each cable, so we can have a new "industry standard" going forward.

I disagree with Jason .  Many high resolution FLAC and in particular well done DSD will sound notably open and realistic than Redbook.  This however is a generalization.  If the original recording isn’t up to par playing it in a higher resolution format won’t make much of a difference.

  I haven’t DAC shopped in a while.  Are most of the higher end ones now offering I2S?  I use a Bryston DAC3 which has 4 HDMI inputs and I use an Oppo 105 to output the DSD from SACD into the DAC.  I never understood why manufacturers just didn’t add HDMI instead of I2S.  HDMI is supposed to be more jittery but I think it’s excellent 

While it is not the only factor, a high quality clock is critical to delivering good sound in digital. High end units like the N20 have a precision OCXO clock to deliver that signal for all of the SPDIF outputs. If the user chooses to use USB instead, the streamer gives up control of clicking and it is left up to the DAC. In that case, much of the effort and expense of creating a super high quality streamer is bypassed. The vendor is controlling as much as they can with SPDIF to deliver the best possible outcome for the majority of audio formats which are 192 kHz or less. 
 

Stream all you want but beyond 44.1K/16 bits you won’t hear any difference, contrary to the claims of the Golden Ears crowd. Perceived differences are due to the care of the mastering used on the original signal.

There is a limit to human hearing. Redbook CD/Streaming is at that limit. To naysay the Nyquist Theorem is to deny Shannon's work on Information Theory. Redbook gives as wide a bandwidth for music playback as needed. The higher sampling rate stuff is only needed for studio production as it allows more layers to be enfolded for the finished product without adding more noise.