The roller bearings made by Symposium, Ingress Engineering, and FIM each use one ball bearing per foot. How many are in each Stillpoint? The more ball bearings, the more friction and noise, etc.
A friend of mine recently tried the Mad Scientist isolation devices under his components with excellent results - don't know if he gives you a trial period but I would sent him a message to see. I think $299 for three.
@d2girls! I agree with you! Another expensive doodad that claims almost mythical powers of system transformation. Mpingo discs, anyone? Where are my dowsing rods?
According to many reputable people, not dealers, in various forums, the Stillpoints are different than the other options. Perhaps Ansuz Darkz are similar technology, but they are even more expensive. Even two guys I know locally that have been doing this for years, they had tried all kind of things with no results, until they installed the Stillpoints.
So I decided to give them a shot. I have learned over the years that the best thing to do when in doubt, is to try something. Everything else is just opinions, often without any actual experience. Yes, based on description, and application, in theory these sound very suspicious, as my OP said, but I will soon learn myself.
Of course they are snake oil. Transistors and ICs are not microphonic, and the laser in a CD player is servo-controlled to read accurately (not to mention that the encoding of the data stream on a CD includes error correction). There is some logic to installing vibration isolation on your turntable. And vacuum tubes are microphonic, but rubber isolated tube sockets and not putting your amplifiers in front of the speakers is probably 99% effective for reducing any effects. Save your money and upgrade your speakers, or invest in room correction instead. I wouldn’t have anything to do with a dealer who was pushing this nonsense.
Big ripoff there are much better foot e.g. Magico feet,Marago mystery feet,also Loyd 1 etc.I find they tilt the balance toward the highs which in my system is thin,lean and not at all desirable.This is why there are always many on the used market.
Boxer12, That's certainly possible. My original point to the OP before being side tracked on cables etc.. was about isolation devices and my advice is ask the manufacturer what is their opinion on using these devices. Since they designed the componet and have their reputation as well as a monetary consideration I would tend to trust their advice as to what is required for the device to perform at it's optimal level. They might advise the use of these devices. I would rather have their opinion over a hundred ancedotal testamonials.
It’s hard enough competing in today’s high end marketplace. There’s no need to jump in and get involved in the latest audiophile issues like fuses, powercirds, wire directionality, vibration isolation, any of that stuff. Besides most high end manufacturers are pretty convinced their components don’t need any of that crap. They’re fine without it. It’s kind of the same reason many audio stores do not go out of their way to use tweaks in the store systems. It’s because they think people just want to hear the pure sound of the components. Ha ha ha!
djones51, I believe equipment manufacturers have a pretty good idea of there customer base and choose not to jump into that kettle of fish for that reason. When it comes to power cords, interconnects, isolation devices, you name it, we don't agree on anything.
Who said anything about recommending particular brands? I said generic. If the dealers providers of amps, transports, TT etc.. convey to the dealer hey such and such cord or interconnect , isolation device works great with our product I am sure the dealer would be more than happy to sell them in his store . This is simple marketing 101 to create relationships, assuming of course the manufacturer believes these added devices actually work. Here a simple example, say the maker of my amp, micromega advises their dealers that for example Audioquest products work great with our amps then unless the dealer is a moron they are going to tell potental buyers, you know micromega recommends AQ products with their amps and will for sure start carring AQ if they don't already. Nothing I keep reading here makes any sense from a marketing standpoint on thus reluctance of manufacturers recommending products that their suppliers and dealers could also sell IF THEY WORK. Now if they DON'T think they make a difference then I can see the downside of recommending something. Good lord GE not only recommended Finish dishwashing detergent with my new dishwaher they gave me free samples with it. I guess with the knowledge they were going to alienate loyal Cascade users.
they do know what they are doing, but they also have to sell and do business...and they can't alienate their dealers by recommending products and brands the dealer doesn't carry...
Do these manufacturers at least recommend the use of an expensive isolation device, cord, fuse , cable , etc.. in order to get the best sound from their devices? They can leave out specific brands if they feel uncomfortable recommending them but in at least a generic sense do they recommend one go out and purchase these things so their stuff will perform better? I'll email the maker of my amp and see what they recommend. They spent the R&D building the thing, I am not an engineer or designer of these things, I assume they know what they are doing so I'll trust their advice and if they say yes it will improve them then I can consider if I want to spend my money on them over a consumer proclaiming yeah I spent $5000 on tweeks and damn they work great!!
the manufacturers do not want to include expensive isolation devices, so that the customer can choose which brand/type, if any, they prefer...I like the Mapleshade maple boards and brass cones under my equipment...
It’s odd ever since the advent of the Vibraplane and Townshend’s and Bright Star’s air bladder iso stands more than 20 years ago the subject of vibration isolation should still be so misunderstood and somewhat shrouded in mystery. It’s not really rocket science. It’s very simple. The difficulty arises in the implementation. That’s the Art of isolation. That’s why results often vary. Not to mention the glut of iso devices now available. How can anyone compare them all?
If the vibration isolation method is mass-on-spring AND the instructions for setting up the platform are followed how can you lose? To be as completely effective as possible, isolation should occur in all six count em directions and should start as low in frequency as possible. Everything else is some kind of compromise. Rome was not built in a day.
I did a shoot-out of a number of different coupling and decoupling devices under the tube rectified power supply of my phono stage several years ago. From cheap to expensive. Some I had on hand, some I bought. Almost every one changed the sound to varying degrees. Whether that was beneficial or "better" depends on what you are trying to achieve. The Aurios (I forget which model, it was like an enclosed roller block) had the most profound effect, but caused a stridency to leading edges of notes that was intolerable. The Vibrapod puck plus cone was one of the better, cheap alternatives with little noticeable downside on my system. Some of the others included an old set of Goldmund cones, HRS pucks (plus plates), Herbie’s footers and the Stillpoints SS. I am using the Stillpoints, which increased clarity without the negative (stridency) of the Aurios. I do like the Stillpoints LP weight and use it in lieu of the factory screw down clamp on my Kuzma XL. It also made changes to the sound, but I concluded those were beneficial. I think when you have a ’tweaked’ system and you are making further changes it is sometimes worthwhile to "un-do" or remove the tweaks to check what a "new" device is doing against a baseline~
People can spend money on what they want. The OP said he or she was suspicous. I am simply saying if the companies who make these products don't think their products need more isolation to work as designed why would I think they do?
Do these high end audio makers recommend any of these $500 cords or $1000 isolation devices? Does say Esoteric say if you use a $ 500 AQ cord and Stillpoints our amps sound a hell of a lot better? We recommend you buy them. Maybe they do I have no idea.
Yeah, I assume a mains cable is wire and if the wire meets the specs then it's going to work optimally for what it was designed for and the manufacturer who sold the 'wire' with the component stands behind it , just like Ford isn't going to put sub optimal tires on their cars or expect people to go out and buy uber expensive tires and toss the ones out they sold with the car.
I use them. I like them. I recommend them. Galen Carol sells them through his website. Other dealers do the same. Galen is a very good dealer. I've made several purchases from him. I have found that in my system the Stillpoints Ultra SS devices have the most positive impact under my source(s), DAC and preamp--in that order.
" Still makes no sense to me." You are looking at it the wrong way. First, there are 100’s of aftermarket power cords available. I see no reason that high-end audio makers would waste time & money on a process that would not make them any more money. One gets a generic cord (low cost) with your purchase that will work fine for many users. YOU have the option to experiment with aftermarket cords or not, YOU decide. The manufacturer will not and should not recommenced one over the other, there is no upside for them.
djones that is just a silly argument. Take for example an automobile Ford could make tires for their cars themselves it isn't practical, Pirelli has invested millions of dollars perfecting their designs, molds, tread patterns, carbon black compounds, etc.
You are assuming that a power cord is a simple piece of wire, sometimes there is a lot more going on with weaving, custom materials, custom dielectrics and so on.
Cable companies specialize in creating vey advanced designs that are sold because they a product sound better even if sold wholesale that additional cost will have to be factored into the products selling price which now will be more expensive.
Roger Modjeski doesn't provide ANY power cord with his Music Reference RM-200 power amp, saying he figures everyone has an unused computer cord in a drawer, or will be using an aftermarket cord anyway.
Still makes no sense to me. If a $500 power cord makes an amp sound $500 better it would be to the advantage of the company to include such a cord since they could produce the cord for a fraction of cost, think scale, why Dell can buy cpu's a lot cheaper than I can, market the amp with the cords sonic advantage only spending a small amount on production. I gues stereo manufacturers need better R&D and marketing people.
If they come with the device then I'll try it since they are desinged to use them. I guess I'm weird I assume companies selling expensive equipment kinda know what they are doing and like Audio Areo if needed they provide it.
" If the manufacturer doesn’t think they are needed, why do you?"
The manufacturer is building a unit to a certain price point, they are not interested in experimenting in after market tweeks. That said, there are many tweeks that do change component performance. It is up to the end user to experiment and decide if it is something they want to use or not.
If they thought a $500 power cord was all that important to their product I assume they would contract with a company that makes them and place them under their brand. So it would be a $500 Audio Research cord not Shunayata. I recently bought a micrmega amp I'll email them and ask if I need such a cord and if I do why are they cheapo's and sell me junk.
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