1972,
What's the F.... stuff mean in your posts?
Gold is hot. My whole system is Gold.
You from NY, sir??
"I will write a review about the Ultra SS soon for under my speakers. It is impressive what it does. Without it you miss a lot."
Had them under my speakers and the Sistrum stuff is just so much better. Of course ugly is sin! |
Hey Bo
Sounds like with F... words you are using you are trying to show your angst. If your 1972 moniker has anything to do with when you were born, please keep in mind a lot of these gentlemen on this thread and on Agon are two, three or four decades older than you. We are just trying to have a helpful and interesting discussion about our experiences in audio. You say the same thing over and over many times. I appreciate your view and what you have said but, it does not bear repeating more than a few times otherwise it is not contributing something positive. If you notice on each one of these threads, each one deals with something specific. Though you speak in generalities or non-specifically, in other words much of what you say you could apply to anything in life. Those are generalities. What this and others threads deal with are something specific. I think that with the ?15 - ?20 yrs experience you have it could be an asset to out community if you share specifics. Please try to be more specific and you will have much more valuable things to contribute. Cheers Bo1972 |
Tbg,
"Roxy54, the brass surface on the Audio Points is very important".
Of course it is, I was just being sarcastic. |
Bo1972,
"I didn't buy the Ultra SS for the looks. I bought them first because I love the extra quality they can give."
That contradicts what you have said previously. And how do you know what extra quality they give unless you have tried their competition? No matter what anyone says, complaining about the color of brass is just plain silly, especially when you can barely see it beneath the speakers. Jeez, the way you guys talk, you'd think you were wearing them on the end of your noses. |
It is not about what people say, audio is about what you really can hear.
The thing I don't like in audio is that it often is based on political choices and how much money it will make.
Audio should be about quality and realism. I love music and good audio makes it even better.
But the problem is that there is so much shit on the market. When you have visited many people who spend a lot of money on audio you are aware how easy it is to get a low or average endresult even after spending a lot of money.
The 3D part makes music come more alive. I want as much people as possible get a stunning sound so they can enjoy their beloved music.
The Stillpoints have a positive influence on the overall sound. And it adds some extra qualities.
You Always need to be aware of the improvement and what it costs. Because you can use the same money for other improvements as well.
I really like the comments made on my remarks. You make me think how to do it differently. What people would like to see differently is the thing that counts most.
That is why I said; it is a personal thing that I don't like the gold colour. It doens't make any sense at all.
Audiogon is for me a fun place to be. I get a lot of important information of many people. And no I am not perfect either.
I still want to change audio in general. Because I have seen a lot of limitations in the 16 years I am in this business.
Maybe I am a direct person and often people think it is about me. The F word is used because I am irritated by the low level in endresult in audio in general.
The possitive thing is that I communicate a lot these days with distributers to change things.
I want to cooperate with them togheter. That means giving demos with many different brands at one time instead of only a few brands.
Because the endresult for audio lovers need to get better.
I have said it before; in the US there are many more brands and options. In the Netherlands we don't have many of the stuff you own here on Audiogon.
I Always look to find information about the stuff I never heard of. |
Bo1972, I have no use for anything you say, but you certainly have the right to say it. I will, however, give you a piece of advice that you might entertain, namely polish you SP Ultra 5s until you can see yourself in the reflection. Start with 1000 grit emery fine polishing paper and remove all machining and scrathes, then go to 2000 grit, and finally when it looks very smooth go to 2500 and lastly use metal polish on it being sure that you get no polish in between the parts and onto the ceramic balls. |
Bo 1972, I've been listening to two-channel for a lot longer than 16 or 18 years. With rare exceptions (such as recordings with phase anomalies), two-channel stereo doesn't produce 3-dimensional sound. Unless of course there's a problem in the playback chain. In that case it would be better to call it 3-distortional sound. |
Glory,
Your posts and comments seldom make much sense to me or are worthwhile. Let's just agree that we communicate differently and leave it at that.
Charles, |
With rare exceptions (such as recordings with phase anomalies), two-channel stereo doesn't produce 3-dimensional sound. My experience of 30+ years paints quite a different picture. And without exception, such performance requires a tube line stage / preamp with tube regulated PS to pull it off in spades. When I can follow musicians moving around on stage, closer to me and further from me, and not just lateral positional changes, I'd call that 3D. |
That is why I said: I am better in sound than in words. Sound says it all.
Comparing between different options is the fun part of audio.
In 7 years of time I tell people first the difference between 2 and 3 dimensional sound. After this I give a demo. When they go to other shops they come back. And Always give the same answer; 3d is so much more involving.
I also hear it in the reactions. People who have a 3d sound play a lot more music compared to people who play 2 dimensional.
People who played 2 dimensional and play now 3 dimensional. Say that they never had so much fun in listening.
At the end audio is about music and listening. So keep it simple and convincing. |
what!, The thread got Hijacked, man, not again. |
Hahahahaha...gold is hot...mmmmm....not!!
In my eyes it is an ugly colour. I am not a fan of spikes in general.
I am from the other side of the world..... |
Bo1972, your stuff on 2d versus 3d is a crock. Because I put so much into my stereo, which I presume you would call 2d, and especially with SPs, I get a very realistic sound stage and sense of being at the recording venue. Also, if by 3d you mean multi-channel, I have never heard anything that would make me want to buy such. I know no one with a multi-channel setup.
If you don't mean by 2D and 3D what I am saying, please explain your terms. |
I have been using SST products for a while now.
Better in my system than SP no doubt.
Although a mixture of both did work pretty well in my past system with 5`s under speakers and 101`s under DAC computer and amps.
New system will only have DAC and speakers requiring isolation.... apart from conditioners cables and resonators etc of course but that`s another story.
I shall try the 5`s again soon.
Whats so ugly about SST? Those high grade brass rods are impressive and look pretty cool as far as i am concerned. Plenty of people have made positive comments on them in my room. Can`t wait to try `Stage`, when available, under DAC.
Once again thanks for the tip Gary.
Anyhow i have been trying to contact Robert at SST for the past 2 weeks with no reply which is a bit unusual. Has anyone heard anything?
Or could someone over there please check or something?
It is a bit difficult being down under. |
My experience is that it is next to impossible to have an intelligent conversation with Mr. Bobby Kingma, i.e. Bo1972. It is like talking with Forrest Gump or with a talking parrot. Irrespective of the topic discussed, he will invariably start preaching about one of the following topics:
1) "2d and 3d sound”
2) “qualities" of electronics
3) The fact that he has an identical sound memory.
4) How almost all subwoofers are slower then the Monitor Audio subs he is selling
5) The fact the the editor of a dutch magazine has call him to tell him that he has had the best sound at a dutch show that was organised in 2012.
He is doing the same thing also on the dutch forums, and to me (not a native dutch speaker) he sound somewhat illiterate also when writing in dutch (his native language). Thus, my advice is to simply ignore him. I hope Audiogon will some day introduce an ignore button. |
Nvp
Ha 72 & NVP go at in the Netherlands. You go NVP!!! |
I am talking about stereo, not Multi channel. I also play over 90% stereo.
I owned the B&W Nautilus 802 and the 800 Signature. I loved the touchable image. But I didn't like their crossovers. I missed the depth of some other speakers.
The speakers who could give depth ( I sold Avalon for over 6 years of time) and other speakers missed the touchable image of the B&W.
In my head I thought: I want it all. I want a deep and wide stage. But I want a palpable intimate image as well. This part is the weakest part of Avalon.
When I was at my friends house during classical live concerts I was stunned by the intimate sound of an instrument and of a voice.
In 16 years of time I did compare a lot. The thing I love most in audio. I Always want to know which properties every single tool owns ( speaker, amp, source, cable, conditioner etc.)
After time you know when you make a combination of some brands what it will do togheter in sound and in stage.
MIT, Nordost, Audioquest, Kimber, NBS, Purist Audio, Transparent, Van den Hul, Taralabs etc have different influences on the sound, image, focus, level of black, resolution, dynamics etc.
I compared them often. Like I compare speakers. For example in 2009 I did lend the Wilson Audio Sophia 2 for 2 months. I Always want to know every single part you Judge a speaker for.
A 3D sound for me is a wide and deep stage with an intimate palpable image like in real.
When I play my favorite music I want to hear every single part of a recording separately. But also in depth. This gives a different feeling in how music influence our emotion.
The more expensive cables form Audioquest and Purist give both stunning black levels. They make the 3d stage more resalistic. It is a feeling of people are really in your room.
My 2 new Audioquest Wel Signature XLR cables did give me new level of listening to music. I never heard any set with this level of palpable image. 2nd and 3th voices are so much more apparent. Differences in Heights give a new view of my music.
The ribbontweeter give a much better palpable image than a dometweeter can. It also brings voices and instruments more loose from the speaker. This increases the stage also in front of you. The stage behind and even beside your speaker give you a more 3d feeling
At the end all parts togheter make the 3d palpable stage.
Speakers, amp, pre amp, conditioner, cables, stillpoints, source.
All these different tools I test to see which parts for Total sound they own.
That is why I bring in tools with properties a set doesn't own to make it complete. I do this also for my clients. It is a different approach, but very effective in endresults.
At shows you hear sets with a deep and wide stage, but this is only one part. When instruments become more intimate and palpable you go to a much higher level. |
Audiolabytinth,
Take note however of the increasing number of thread responders who've actually compared Stillpoint to Star Sound products, this is a welcome addition IMO. |
Bol1972, are you related to Peter from Phasure? Your swirling verbiage reminds me of him. |
|
I don't think that I am swirling that much. I Always work and think the same way. I use a lot less different brands. Using more different brands gives you a less higher endresult at the end. |
"Bol1972, are you related to Peter from Phasure? Your swirling verbiage reminds me of him. "
But but Peter really knows what he is talking about!
This is almost a huge compliment |
Swirling verbiage? That is so cool! |
Little BO peep, I you are just digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. Give it a break, no one has any respect for narcissism. |
Hi charles1dad, Thanks, I have taken notice of the point you have made about the still points versus star sound products, clearing away the inadequete senceless post reminds me of putting Bo on the star sound apprentice and reinstateing the thread back to normal informative post. |
Looks like I'm the next in line to try out Star Sound products under my speakers. Had a nice followup conversation with Robert this week, after I emailed an inquiry about Sistrum Apprentice stands to use under my Revel Salon 2s.
I did state some stability concerns (the Salon 2s are heavy, about 180 lbs. apiece, but also have a tall, narrow profile - I don't think the grandchildren could take them out, but I wasn't so sure about my German Shepherds...). In response, Robert suggested I wait a couple months for the stands until their new Apprentice XL is available. This new larger version will have some clamping capability in addition to a larger, more stable footprint.
In the meantime, he is providing some threaded 2.0AP-1 Audio Points for me to use, and will apply 100% of their cost to the new Apprentice XL stands when they become available.
Thanks are due Charles1dad, Grannyring, Agear, Tbg, Glory and everyone else who has weighed in on this technology with their personal experience. Your findings have given me confidence that it does something quite noticeable and beneficial. My system does not lack dynamics or speed, but I am curious to hear what these products add to these qualities.
Oh, and I am hopeful that the irrelevant BS has fully swirled down the drain and stays there! |
First they need to change the colour. :-) |
Change the color change the sound. Change the material and change the impedance. Change the color and change the propagation of sound thru the material. Change the color no.
Tom. Star Sound Technologies. |
What about changing the color of the cable jacket? I suppose that's due to the speed of light propagating through the cable? |
Color reference was in the context of material makeup selection which in this case changes the color and the sound. Tom |
P59teitel,
You won't be disappointed. It is one thing to read about the positive differences that others have experienced, but it's a whole different thing when you experience it in your own system. |
07-15-14: Petieboy12003
"Bol1972, are you related to Peter from Phasure? Your swirling verbiage reminds me of him. "
But but Peter really knows what he is talking about!
This is almost a huge compliment Yes indeed. Peter is a genius who comes across as a verbal Tasmanian devil to uninformed dolts like moi.... |
P59teitel, did Robert give you any reason to buy the 2 inch Audio Points? I think the 1.5 inchers sound better. |
07-15-14: Bo1972
Who the F...is Peter? I hate to admit it, but that made me laugh. Peter is the Dutch madman behind this: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?board=9.0 He has designed what many consider to be the best media player/dac in the world. You need to F.... hear one. |
Nope, that was just his recommendation for me to use as the bridge product until the Apprentice XL platforms are available. |
There is a big difference between a large high mass highly reactive speaker cabinet in comparison to an amplifier, power conditioner or any electronic component. In many situations the 1.5" AP will sound better than the two inch version however the 2" AP will clearly sound better in other applications.
Loudspeakers produce much more energy and vibration increasing resonance that affects the performance of each driver in combination with the enclosure. The two inch audio points were supplied for the larger Revel which has a lot more mass and surface area compared to an electronics chassis and smaller speaker designs. In this case we added more brass weight in order to attract the heavier amplitudes of resonance and unwanted noise that forms up on a dense speaker chassis. In this particular application the two inch Audio Points would clearly outperform the smaller version.
The Audio Points were provided as a quick fix/improvement and will eventually be traded back when the larger Sistrum Apprentice XL becomes available this fall.
Please remember it is not fair to compare an Audio Point performance and functionality to any Sistrum Platform design as the platforms are designed with a totally different geometry and present a much larger area of reactance. Tom. Star Sound Technology |
The Sistrum stands greatly interest me for electronics but I'm concerned of my products sitting on sharp tips that will indent or scratch up the bottom of the product. Is there a solution to this? |
Thanks are due Charles1dad, Grannyring, Agear, Tbg, Glory and everyone else who has weighed in on this technology with their personal experience. Your findings have given me confidence that it does something quite noticeable and beneficial. My system does not lack dynamics or speed, but I am curious to hear what these products add to these qualities. Congrats and enjoy. |
charles1dad, did you get a laugh out of my last post to you?, I was hopeing to lighten up the thread from the invasion of chiberish ,mmm, I wonder if the apprentice XL stands will be better than the 103 for sound quality, cheers. |
Jafox, there is a solution, called coupling disks. Actually they sound better when used than without them.
There is a method using scotch tape to hold them on until you have the speaker or component on top. |
The Sistrum stands greatly interest me for electronics but I'm concerned of my products sitting on sharp tips that will indent or scratch up the bottom of the product. Is there a solution to this? They make protective disks that work very nicely to protect your Gucci electronics |
star sound coupling disk? |
Gucci electronics indeed. Yes, TBG pointed out the little disks and the scotch tape trick to resolve my concern. Thank you guys. |
07-16-14: Agear
"Yes indeed. Peter is a genius who comes across as a verbal Tasmanian devil to uninformed dolts like moi...."
lol Agear you`re a F..... funny F.... |
{quote]Seems logical to assume that the makers of megabuck speakers would use superior footers in their designs. Any experience out there with Stillpoints isolation devices to support the reference-level offerings from Magico, TAD, Rockport, Tidal, and others?
Psag (Threads | Answers | This Thread)[/quote]
Where the F--- is Psag? He started this thread.... |
Just popped in the Audio Points (by myself. My effective wingspan is wider than I thought...).
First listening is very favorable. Hearing more of the strike of the hammer with piano, stick hitting cymbal etc. Bass impression so far is not that it is reduced, but that I'm hearing more below say 100hz. Richer tonality perhaps?
Soundstage width doesn't seem to have changed, but it is deeper and taller. It is easier to hear the individual contributions in two-part harmonies.
I'm almost rolling my own eyes as I type this sentence, but it's like the potential of the Salon 2s to benefit from what they are fed from the gear behind them has grown. A lot. Wicked pissah, as we say here in the Armpit of Cape Cod!
|
Just popped in the Audio Points (by myself. My effective wingspan is wider than I thought...).
First listening is very favorable. Hearing more of the strike of the hammer with piano, stick hitting cymbal etc. Bass impression so far is not that it is reduced, but that I'm hearing more below say 100hz. Richer tonality perhaps?
Soundstage width doesn't seem to have changed, but it is deeper and taller. It is easier to hear the individual contributions in two-part harmonies.
I'm almost rolling my own eyes as I type this sentence, but it's like the potential of the Salon 2s to benefit from what they are fed from the gear behind them has grown. A lot. Wicked pissah, as we say here in the Armpit of Cape Cod!
|
Just popped in the Audio Points (by myself. My effective wingspan is wider than I thought...).
First listening is very favorable. Hearing more of the strike of the hammer with piano, stick hitting cymbal etc. Bass impression so far is not that it is reduced, but that I'm hearing more below say 100hz. Richer tonality perhaps?
Soundstage width doesn't seem to have changed, but it is deeper and taller. It is easier to hear the individual contributions in two-part harmonies.
I'm almost rolling my own eyes as I type this sentence, but it's like the potential of the Salon 2s to benefit from what they are fed from the gear behind them has grown. A lot. Wicked pissah, as we say here in the Armpit of Cape Cod!
|
Just popped in the Audio Points (by myself. My effective wingspan is wider than I thought...).
First listening is very favorable. Hearing more of the strike of the hammer with piano, stick hitting cymbal etc. Bass impression so far is not that it is reduced, but that I'm hearing more below say 100hz. Richer tonality perhaps?
Soundstage width doesn't seem to have changed, but it is deeper and taller. It is easier to hear the individual contributions in two-part harmonies.
I'm almost rolling my own eyes as I type this sentence, but it's like the potential of the Salon 2s to benefit from what they are fed from the gear behind them has grown. A lot. Wicked pissah, as we say here in the Armpit of Cape Cod!
|
Agear....i use the Ultra 5s...4 of them ..under my Tidal Contriva Diacera-SE speakers and they make a sigificant improvement in the sound as compared to the stock footers. i have a friend with Tidal 'Piano Cera's ' and he uses the Ultra SS under his and they, too, make a big improvement..i think there probably is some good, sound, science behind their developement.The USA distributor for Tidal now uses the Ultra 5s with his Tidals at the shows.. |
