@ozzy

From the EMail ,  I received this morning ( it is a long text )

As you may have read, we have been working hard in development of EtherREGEN Gen2 for over 1 year—utilizing more readily available parts and incorporating a number of technical advancements. These include Gigabit capability on both the ‘A’ and ‘B’ sides of our unique active-differential-isolation moat, even lower jitter clock synthesizers, an exceptional new PHY chip, and the world’s best sine-to-square wave converter (benefiting those who chose to pair with an external 10MHz reference clock). The new version will even include a second SFP cage—on the ‘B’ side—to improve performance for users of optical endpoints.

 

However, every day and night we are trying to solve a last technical riddle with interfacing of two brand new special chips we have chosen. As soon as this puzzle is solved—hopefully within the next couple of weeks—we can then move on to the final round of test boards incorporating all of the elements and advancements of our new design.

 

Realistically, even if we solve this last programming issue next week, there time to produce next full version test board (large with lots of test points) and then actual pre-production test/beta boards all adds up to several more months before full salable production units are ready.

Thanks maxwave,

I guess time will tell if it is an improvement in sound quality.

ozzy

tksteingraber,

"After several days of listening and testing the SL in front of my EtherRegen switch and after my ER switch I definitely prefer it installed after the ER right before my network streamer. It sounder veiled, less detailed and less dynamic installed in front of the ER. The SL has found its home. Really does improve the SQ."

I also now concur with your findings. After the EthererRgen is better.

Thank you for pointing that out.

ozzy

On the website it says "capable of handling data speeds of up to 100Mbps". I know that streaming does not need anything higher than half that, but still it cuts down the actual bandwidth to 1/5th. Should not be a big deal, I guess.

@milpai - just 100 mbps gives me pause since it means cheap low end components in $250 unit? Why is not capable of 1GB at least.

For what it's worth. I have no problem with 4K downloads on my Apple TV, the picture is actually quite a bit better and HR Quboz audio streaming.

ozzy

@ozzy

I also have an ethernet cable out from the EtherRegen that is running to my Apple TV, so, I placed the 2nd SmoothLan before that Apple TV.

I think with this connection I am getting more additional "digititis" removed and it is improving the picture quality and... there also seems to an improvement further in my audio streaming sound.

But I’m not sure how this is possible yet. Any ideas?

The Apple TV device (or its SMPS) has noise, which rides back into the switch your streamer is connected to. The 2nd SmoothLAN isolates/removes this noise, improving the audio even though the streamer is not in the direct signal path.

I too found a nice picture improvement using SmoothLAN on my LG OLED. A slight reduction in grain and noise you never knew was there.

I am now going to check out the Stack Audio AUVA EQ footers. They could be giant killers like the SmoothLAN.

So, placing the SmoothLan before the EtherRegen does reflect some interaction and reduces some of the sound quality as noted by tksteingraber.

Today I am of the opinion that one SmoothLan unit located at my Apple TV seems to be the best for sound quality. agisthos, you are right on.

Even if I place it at EthereRegen output, again it seems to reduce some of the treble. Hard to notice at first but I can now tell it clearly. Both issues are more related to an EtherRegen conflict.

And with 2 of them, though the sound stage is deeper, I still feel that the treble is still affected.

Looks like I will have a unit for sale.

P.S Sorry about the different font sizes it seems to be impossible to correct.

ozzy

@ozzy Let me know if/when you decide to sell your SL.  I am planning on buying a second one for my Home Theatre system.

tksteingraber,

I just sent you a PM.

ozzy

Hey @ozzy (and others):

Upgraded my SFP modules to 1318 Finisar, but they don’t seem to work with my (older) Cisco WS-C2960G-8TC-L Gigabit Ethernet Switch (which works fine with cheap 10Gtek modules from Amazon).

I thought SFPs would be standardized, but I may have been mistaken. Does anyone have any guidance to share?

Thanks in advance.

JAMES

jimboman,

I have only used 2 types of SFP modules, and both worked.

I thought they were universal.

ozzy

Unfortunately not all SFPs work with all switches/converters. You should adhere to the recommended list of SFPs of the switch manufacturers. Cisco's typically require the SFP (Eprom) to be programmed so that the switch reads it. There is a huge thread in CA about SFPs.

I have bought , last week two ´´ Melco C1-D20 SFP+ Direct Attach Cable ´´ for my Lumin L2 and My LuminX1.

I leaned this morning , from Peter Lei ( WKLEI ) that this cable is not suited for my Lumins . So I canceled this purchase. What a deception . I had great hope for these.

They would not work .

I thought , the optic/ SFP combo was ´´ standard ´´ for every gears .

Thanks to Walter ( Underwood Hifi ) who was very understanding and accepted to cancel my purchase .

https://www.audioshark.org/direct-messages/melco-c1-d20-sfp-direct-attach-cable.67428/#convMessage-67441

According to WKLEI ; Lumin support SFP  but  not  SFP+

@maxwave There is a lot of confusion between SFP and SFP+. For audio there is absolutely no need for SFP+, the only thing that SFP+ MAY help is the extremely tight jitter specification of the protocol. There is no conclusion that SFP+ is better than SFP (for audio). To make things more complicated there are some SFP+ modules that will work at dual rate and could be compatible with a SFP module at the other end. Lumin and most other audio companies do not support SFP+ and in fact as you found out most of them support only 100MB data rates.  You have done the right thing and asked the supplier about compatibility and anyone who does not want to risk fiber optic issues should read the manual or if possible contact the manufacturer.

Btw SFP is very old technology in networks, only in audio is relatively new.

Hi @greg_f ​​​​@ozzy 

Thanks for the detailed replies. Much appreciated.

greg_f, where can I find the SFP thread you mentioned?  By ‘CA’, do you mean Canuck Audiomart?

My Cisco switch is an old Catalyst 2960 (which had been recommended in these forums as a low-cost high-quality switch), so that may be contributing to the compatibility issue.

Best, JAMES

@jimboman - Think CA refers to the site previously known as Computer Audiophile (now Audiophile Style). Did a search there on SFP and this may be the thread @greg_f was referring to: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/59632-optical-networking-sfps Hope that helps!

Thanks @bill_k 

That’s super-helpful.

Best, JAMES

With the improved sound quality results the SmoothLan gave on my main audio system, I added a SmoothLan to my Home Theatre System which is also used as a second audio system. I installed it between my second Fiber Media Converter and my streamer/DAC and like the first one it provides an excellent SQ improvement. Great affordable tweak that really gives a nice bump on my modest system.

@jimboman 

Sorry for the late reply. The thread that @bill_k mentioned is the correct one. It is a good one but it can be confusing as there are conflicting information sometimes. There is also a spin off thread on the same site about DACs (not D/A converters but Direct Attached Cable) which is related on the same subject but I would recommend one step at a time... If you need any advice let me know ( I am by means an expert, I just got some basic knowledge with SFPs).

Thanks @greg_f  I really appreciate the info and support.

The CA thread is a good resource, although probably more technical than I need.  My goal is to try a better SFP module to see if it will improve the fibre feed to my Lumin U2.  I'd read that Finisar modules were recommended by many on this site.

I'll reach out to Cisco to see if I can get the specs for my Catalyst 2960 switch, and see what modules might be compatible -- and which might offer a SQ improvement.

Many thanks,

JAMES.

@jimboman James, yes the Finisar modules seem to be one of the most popular. Get LC modules perhaps something like FTLF1318P3BTL or if you like to try AOC (Active Optical Cable) then the Cisco SFP-10G-AOC5M or similar, but please do check compatibility at both ends.

@jimboman

I have bought two of this cable ( LuminX1 and Lumin L2) with ´´ APC Optical Fiber edition ´´ Still waiting for the delivery

In replacement of ´´Melco C1-D20 SFP+ Direct Attach Cable ´´

https://www.adark.co/collections/project-constellation-fiber/products/copy-of-afterdark-project-clayx-constellation-sfp-module-for-audiophile?variant=39631937994870

Thanks @greg_f .  I am using the Finisar 1318 you suggested.

I tried bypassing my Cisco Catalyst 2960 with a cheap Mokertek FMC I had lying around, and the Finisar modules work (including one in the Lumin U2)!  This confirms that the compatibility issue was with the Cisco switch.

I find the sound quality to be just a touch more 'full', particularly in the low bass region, with the Finisar modules.  It's a subtle difference, but for the cost, worthwhile IMHO.

With that in mind, I'm wondering what people are recommending for FMCs with good SQ?  @ozzy @audphile1 @tksteingraber @maxwave  (and others) care to chime in?

Best, JAMES.

@jimboman Perhaps an Etherregen or an Sonore optical Module? How are you connected to the Cisco 2960? What is your network structure?

@jimboman Can’t help here. I use generic FMC/SFP’s with an LPS. I tried TP Link and couldn’t hear a difference and was happy with the sound improvement when I added the LPS so left it there and focused on filtering after the optical. I would also be interested if upgraded FMC/SFP’s impact SQ.

Thanks for the quick replies.  Much appreciated.

@greg_f  I'm on Bell Fibe 500Mbps, then using a cheap TP-Link router to split the ethernet signal - one trunk going into the SmoothLAN, then into the Cisco 2960, then out via fiber port to Lumin (effectively using the Cisco as a FMC) - and the other trunk feeds a newer Cisco switch that has all my 'dirty' computer network on it (wifi, LAN, etc).

Now that I might stick with a dedicated FMC instead of the Cisco 2960, I would probably use the 2960 to replace the cheap TP-Link switch.

I wondered about the Sonore FMC, although it's hard to tell exactly what separates it from a generic FMC.  Guess the usual audiophile caveat applies -- gotta try it to find out!

@tksteingraber Thanks for the perspective.  What LPS are you using?

The experiment continues!

Best, JAMES.

@jimboman I use a Topping LPS. Reasonable price, nice build quality with dual 5V plugs to supply both FMC’s.

https://apos.audio/products/topping-p50-linear-power-supply?srsltid=AfmBOooMMQutDzFtoM75ULbqbDbuUJwE3IsRAoHBheDqfsS3VfWO7yqh

I actually found that the iFi iPower Low Noise Power supply was better (sound quality wise) than the Linear power supply used in the AfterDark power supply.

ozzy

Swapped back the Smooth Lan after the EtherRegen and much better . Just as mentioned earlier the thread. I had it after when I first got it but only gave it a few hrs.in that position. Between the Puron and the Smooth Lan for under 500 bucks brought a nice little bump in refinement to my system. 

Since my apple TV is also connected to my Ether Regen, the SmoothLan has improved that picture quality too!

And...

I actually have it connected right before the Apple TV, and I have found that with this placement that the audio quality is also the best, Perhaps the Apple TV injects a lot of noise?

ozzy

Question:

Do any of you think the treble is diminished with the SmoothLan?

ozzy

@ozzy , not that I’ve noticed. 

@ozzy At first, I didn't think the SL affected the EQ, but after living with the device awhile, I'd say that it is possible that it does diminish the treble slightly.

I'll listen more with that in mind.

Best, JAMES.

Thanks guys.

As much as I liked what it did for the depth of the soundstage the treble does seem to be a little subdued.

ozzy

I have not noticed any treble softening.  In fact it sounds clearer to me.  Really made everything cleaner and clearer on my system. 

Hey @ozzy hey @tksteingraber 

Did a bit of quick testing, pulling the SL out of the chain...and I gotta say, while there was a tad more treble, I did miss what the SL brings to the soundstage, and the musicality of my system.  Just gives more weight to the music.  More engagement.  A little more outside the speakers.

That said, I have been experimenting with trying to find a Ethernet/Fibre convertor to replace my old Cisco 2960 switch, and tonight's testing reminded me that, like all things in audiophilia, component synergy plays a big part.  How does this relate to the SL/treble question?

While I was using a cheap FMC box (albeit with a good LPS), I did think the SL softened the treble a bit.  But when I replace that FMC with a different one, the presentation was a bit brighter again (perhaps taking a touch of slam with it...not sure).  But the exercise reminded me that it really is a matter of finding balance between all the links in the chain -- at least, a balance that sounds good to my ears.

With that in mind, I'm going to live with the new FMC awhile, and see if it stays in the system.  And, I'm going to live with it while I do more research into 'the best FMC', haha.  Of course, the obsession continues!

Best, JAMES.

What FMC are you now using?

ozzy

The Stack Smooth Lan and the EE1 are the same device no? 

@ozzy 

So, the 'cheap' one ($20 USD) I mentioned was a Mokertech box from Amazon.

The one I'm using now, that seems brighter, is a TrendNet 4port switch with an SFP port.  I chose it based on the recommendation of Small Green Computer's website, which recommended the TrendNet brand switches for their fast packet handling.  It's not expensive -- $60 USD.

The big question for me is, whether it's worth trying the Sonore Mini FMC ($110 USD) or to pony up for the $600 USD opticalModule Deluxe.

Have to do some research on FMCs to see what the consensus might be.  What's your take/experience?

Best, JAMES.

No, they do look similar though.

ozzy

jimboman,

I am using the EtherRegen. Perhaps I should try different FMC’s. The ones I bought a few years back were the Finisar, can’t remember the model number, but they were about $100 each.

ozzy

 Great source of information on SFP and FMC. Helped me some in my journey 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/62352-finisar-sfp-modules-for-audio-grade-network-switch-group-buy-for-audiophilestylecom/

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/61654-help-required-for-choice-of-fmc-to-match-opticalmodule-deluxe/

Thanks for that info.

Now that may open up a new can of worms. And perhaps deserves its own thread.

ozzy

@ozzy Have a look at the following two threads, the first one is massive and has been going on for years

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/24002-optical-network-configurations/page/143/#comments

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/69926-direct-attach-cable-thread/page/11/#comment-1286369