Soundstage and image height, does it exist?

It exists but recording as well as room and equipment dependent. My reason for saying this, I can hear it in my room at times. Certainly the depth, left, right and center aspects of sound stage are much more frequently present. When I say height its not that the wall of sound is high as well as wide it is I can hear specific sounds as coming from a tall specific spot within the sound stage.

There is no soundstage image height or image at all. It's just your brain trying to make sense of what it's perceiving its a trick an illusion. Just like when you watch all those non-moving fixed images on your TV your brain makes it seem like real motion is going on.

There is no soundstage image height or image at all. It's just your brain trying to make sense of what it's perceiving its a trick an illusion.

@johnk 

Then how do you explain Northwestern's LEDR recording, already mentioned several times on this thread?

The track in question, starts with a tone in the left speaker, which then moves straight UP to at least 8' or more feet up, moves across to directly over the top of the right speaker, then down to the speaker level. 

Yes, this track was created specifically to exaggerate this effect, but if speakers were incapable of producing height, please explain this track.

So far, this same phenomena occurs on every system I've played it on. Even speakers not known for their great imaging. 

Stereo is an illusion imaging is a trick it’s not there your brain just thinks it is. Just like your brain thinks a moving picture exists when it’s all just still images flashed at a high rate just like you perceive motion in an animated film. If you move off center the image vanishes because it’s not there. If I had only 1 ear would I hear this movement of sound? if you played only 1 speaker would it still be there? No, it wouldn’t because it was never there in the 1st place. During playback, the listener’s brain uses those subtle differences in timing and sound level to triangulate the positions of the recorded objects.

I have very much enjoyed this discussion, found after a google search on the subject. Now I have a bunch of resources to explore.

A couple of examples.

Highway 61 Revisited by Dave Alvin / From an Old Guitar.

Near the start of the song, as it starts to get loud, there is sound coming from high and to the left - way lefter than the left speaker, and as high as the ceiling in my room. My ceiling is 2.9 metres and my tweeters are about ear level.

The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea by Brendan Perry / Ark.

As this track evolves there is a constant tick tick tick of something I assume the drummer is doing, I am no expert in musical instruments. This ticking sound, to me, floats around the sound stage like a butterfly. Left to right, forward and back, up and down. It’s fun to track and follow it in the mind.

Bonus track - 

The Ballad of Bill Hubbard by Roger Waters / Amused to Death.

Must surely be a phase trick here. Turn it up loud and sit in the sweet spot, the (about 3) dogs will be barking behind you to the right, at a distance, perceived to be outside.

Other tricks too, the voice on the radio to the left - literally beside you to the left.

Two years ago I was using a pair of B&W CM9 speakers, a Musical Fidelity M6i amp and either a CD or a computer for source.

I had that for a decade and I thought it was good. Little did I know.

I cannot recall hearing height, or spacial effects such as those mentioned in this topic. I had stereo, that was about it.

In the last 2 years I have evolved my system through various hardware changes including B&W 702 S2 Signature speakers, Sonos Port, Bluesound Node, Auralic Aries and Sirius, Musical Fidelity M8xi amp, PrimaLuna EVO 100 DAC and EVO 400 preamp, Musical Fidelity M8-700M monoblocks, REL S/510 sub. And every piece of that hardware is now gone. I now have a full on end-game system, Tidal Contros (streamer/DAC/preamp), Tidal Ferios monoblocks, Tidal Contriva speakers and two REL No. 31 subs. A lot of money, probably out of the reach of many. My advice there is if you are at an age to do so, stick extra from your pay into your superannuation. When you can access it, you should have the funds to enjoy life, it worked for me.

That aside… Until I got the Tidal electronics to go with these speakers, I had no idea what was possible when it comes to soundstage quality and definition.

It’s early days but my experience so far has been beyond wildest expectations. Never heard anything even close to this level. It’s like I was fluffing around at the edges before compared to how good it is now. I did not know what to expect - I knew what I had was good so I was a bit concerned I wasn’t going to hear much difference. Damn, those fears are history.

Getting myself back on topic, and why I found this topic, I wanted to see if other people experience this height phenomenon. I don’t understand how it works, but whether it is a trick of the mind, imagination, room characteristics, or whether it is real, I am glad it exists. 
I have had friends come and listen, I have asked them to close their eyes, I play a track with this effect and ask them to point to the source. Their results prove it isn’t my imagination.

Now I’m off to explore the suggestions people have commented on here, so thanks for the suggestions.

It‘s not just the speakers.  Good isolation of the components and cabling, I found helps to sharpen and focus the images.  My current system, depending on the recording will paint a 3D soundstage that goes beyond the walls- if I close my eyes or turn out the lights.  It was fun af first.  I could close my eyes and hear the large sound stage and then open my eyes and see the walls cutting right through the band.  Now I can hear the full sound stage mostly with my eyes still open.  

Eric Clapton records are a good example.  On one he is standing.  His voice is about 6 feet high and his guitar is about 3-4 feet high.  On the Unplugged album, he is sitting and his voice is 4 feet high while his guitar is 3 feet high.  Several recordings do things like that.  Drums will be about 2-3 feet high and cymbals just a little higher up.  Other albums have everything at the same height- instruments and voices.  Some albums are a flat wall of sound while most have instruments and voices in various positions front to back as well as left to right.  Some Chorale pieces have voices from floor to ceiling- very dramatic.  Well recorded piano is interesting.  Sometimes the piano seems placed at a diagonal and sometimes it is at a right angle.  I can think of one recording where the piano is left to right on the stage.  Makes it feel like the piano is almost in my face.  Just depends on the recording.

I have used the Roger Waters track for a few years as one test for speaker placement.  My current speakers put the dogs at the extreme right far away and the talking man at my extreme left about 8 feet away.  I hear sounds behind me now and then.  Don‘t really care for that.

Vinyl used to be the best for a big open soundstage and images but my current digital side does the job just as well as vinyl now.   

Sounds stage beyond the speakers width is mostly room reflections. Try taking the speakers outside and see how they sound. I would bet they sound pretty different. 

Speakers outside would be similar to being in a hemianechoic chamber.  Good for testing but not much fun for listening.  The room has a lot to do with the imaging.

@richopp wrote:

… what I do know is that when Jim Winey decided to make Magnepan speakers 6' high, the listener was treated to a source that more closely mimicked the experience of being at a live concert.  The "sound stage" of a concert is the hall you listen to it in.  Most halls are designed to provide a quality listening experience that is as tall as the hall and as wide as the stage.

+1

The actual radiation field and its overall size and height is by far the most influential factor with regard to perceived realism and immersiveness of sound staging, as I see it. Again: with speakers there’s no escaping physics, inconvenient they may be to many. 

I certainly do get height from my system, but then my front wall is ~16 feet high and the back wall is ~7-1/2 feet high, so there could be some reflection adding to it.

If you want to hear height, the best thing I find is to listen to "sharp" percussion. Xylophone. marimba, glock, wood blocks, etc. always seem to come out higher.

A great example at 2:00:

https://youtu.be/6i24NjljMcM

Then of course there is the actual height of the speakers that can replicate the height of the actual instruments they are reproducing. For example, when I listen to the Big Red Supers, drum kits/solos come out very realistic as to their height. The aux woofer at the bottom of the cabinet reproduces the slam of the kick drum, whereas the 604’s horns are placed at the level of cymbols.

I consider soundstage and imaging an important part in  stereo's ability to pull me into the music. I started a thread on the ASR forum asking the experts if there were measurements for that and another thread inquiring about resolution. In my reality, what separates the $1000 pair from the $10,000 pair are 'stage, imaging and resolution and guess what? NOPE no such measurements, so these things don't exist Period. 

Until they get off that pulpit i'll remain skeptical. Any decent pair of speakers should 'stage and image. read up a bit and learn about placement and have fun with it.

There is no question that if you have the ability to try multiple pairs of speakers in your room, switching back and forth that you will hear differences in soundstage width, height, depth and envelopment.  And then the trick is, once you've settled on which speakers you prefer, to then optimize their presentation within the limits of your room and your budget.

You have not heard soundstage height, depth, expansiveness, envelopement, etc until you heard something like a 5.4.4 or higher 360 reality, atmos, etc rig, i.e., a minimum of 5 bed layer speakers,  4 height speakers and subs. There are specific directivity requirements for a height speaker and so on.

But, the seers with their 2 channels have everything figured out about height, depth, nuance,  positioning in space, etc, I bet...Ah... the never ending miracle of those 2 lousy channels...