I currently have a Rega Planar 3 (2016) with a Dynavector 10x5 that suits me and my record collection (mostly reggae, afrobeat, and jazz) but have been thinking about a turntable upgrade as my vinyl collection continues to expand.
Initially, I considered just a simple Groovetracer subplatter and upgraded counterweight, but am not sure if that is worthwhile. So now I've expanded the search to include a used SOTA Sapphire V or used VPI Prime/VPI Classic. I like the Rega's "PRAT" and no-nonsense design, but would be interested in getting more detail and cleaner, deeper bass out of my vinyl.
Any suggestions/advice/thoughts and alternatives welcome. THANKS! For reference, my system consists of a Hegel H-160, Vandersteen Treos (non CT), Rega Planar 3, LFD Phonostage LE, and Dynavector 10x5.
Congrats, @gritter2 ! One of the great things about your purchase is that it will be compatible with the upcoming Series VI that should be out sooner rather than later, according to Donna. She's playing her cards close to the vest, but you can hear the excitement in her voice :-) Cheers, Spencer
@sbank thanks for your feedback. In the end, I purchased a used SOTA Sapphire V. I am quite enjoying it, and feel that I made the right decision for my needs/tastes. It seems to pair very nicely with the Dynavector 20x2L I added into the system.
@gritter2 If you haven't decided yet, I have lot to say adding to the get a Sota over a VPI camp, but I won't post it if you are already set. Coming from a former top tier VPI owner. Cheers, Spencer
What I mean is that the type of PRAT that the Rega has is different than the type of PRAT from a VPI, IMO. I think of Rega’s sonic signature as being tied to a more traditional British sound, such as from LS5 speakers listening to the BBC all day long in the 50s or 60s.
For me, the Rega kind of PRAT may be more noticeable than the VPI b/c that is more related to Rega’s signature sound. More emphasis on PRAT, and long listening sessions without fatigue. VPI seems to have more emphasis on a fuller or more balanced sound from top to bottom than the VPI. So I think the VPI definitely has PRAT, but it is less conspicuous than the Rega.
Ive heard Rega’s of course, but I chose a SCOUTMASTER II, with a 10.5 arm and Ortofon Black MM. A local Rega dealer of 20 years referred to the VPI TTs as having a “soft” sound. I disagree, but I think that illustrates our preferences and differences. I like VPI PRAT, he likes Rega Prat. As such, one man’s PRAT is ... another man’s PRAT ...
So, finally got the SOTA professionally set up and playing records at home. While the Dynavector 20x2L probably needs some time to break-in, my initial thoughts are: - incredibly spacious sound. Infinitely more sound stage than the Rega. With great recordings, this new dimensionality of sound is pretty awesome, not gonna lie.
- bass is much much tighter. The SOTA’s low end might not be as punchy as the Rega, but it is much more accurate. This may also be helped along by the jump up in cartridge and the record clamp--two new variables.
- clarity of recordings is much more apparent. You can hear much more detail--great recordings/pressings sound even better, bad recording/pressings sound somewhat lacking. I think the Rega was more forgiving in this regard, but also was missing a great deal of detail/clarity. In this regard, the Rega may be considered more "fun" as everything sounded pretty much even.
- a distinctly vinyl sound, which I like, and is one of the main reasons why I collect vinyl. There is a warmth and immediacy to the music that makes listening both engaging and rewarding.
- lastly, the SOTA is beefy. It weighs a ton, and seems built to last. While I was not equipped to set it up by myself, I appreciate that it feels sturdy enough that a novice like me won’t inadvertently break something.
Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions and feedback on this forum. Was a very useful guide and resource!
More congratulations! You will be very pleased with the table and I'm very confident you will notice an immediate improvement. Do take your time setting up the arm and cartridge combo; the table will really reward extra attention there.
Also consider a SOTA Reflex clamp if you don't already have a good one. They're very well made, adjustable and easy to use. Pricey new, but keep your eyes peeled for second-hand ones at places like Audio Classics and Ebay.
Congrats!! That is a great table. The Regas look really nice too, but the SOTA is a more complete solution with built-in isolation and exchangeable arm boards. What wood finish did you get?
So, I took the plunge and purchased the SOTA Sapphire V w/ Origin Live Silver MK3a tonearm. Turntable should arrive in the next day or so, and excited to get it set up and playing records.
For the time being, I'll be running my Dynavector 10x5 on it, so will be fun to compare the sound. Thanks again to everyone on this forum for their feedback/suggestions.
I started out with an AR in the early 80’s than replaced it with a SOTA Star Saphire, a dealer’s démo then. I was so impressed that I traded it in for a Nova a few years later. Both were used with an SME V tonearm. I traded the Nova for a new Cosmos IV in 2008 which now sports a Graham Phatom II. I would never buy a TT without vacuum hold down and Sota does it right at an affordable price (so to speak). For the price they can’t be beat. Customer service is also top notch although I miss those animated conversations I have had with Kirk in years past. RIP my friend. This is a good US based TT company along with VPI.
@mulveling thanks for your in-depth response. It is very helpful and much appreciated. All that you mention about the SOTA is what I am looking for in a TT. I am not interested in analytical listening, and do not shy away from the warmth of vinyl as my SS amp is incredibly neutral and they seem to balance each other out nicely.
@viridian thanks for your feedback as well. I am interested, what about the SOTA Sapphire do you like, personally? I think it’s telling that you still own one.
@gritter2 It’s always very hard to separate a table’s sound from the arm, cartridge and phono stage combination. But I’ve used the SOTA over 10 years, with several various cartridges and stages. The FR64fx arm has been a constant, though. The Origin arm has rigid bearings too, which I feel is important.
With my Star/Nova deck, it’s never been hard to achieve a gorgeous analog sound that makes you feel like throwing away all your digital gear & music. If I had to assign a sonic influence to this deck, I’d say that it would be a little on the side of rich, voluptuous, romantic. You will get very robust bass and dynamics out of this. It will lean more towards "organic" and "PRaT" oriented, rather than techno-analytical. Yet it certainly doesn’t have a strong coloration, since I’ve had various Benzes, Koetsus, and Ortofons on this deck, each with their own distinct character shining through.
The only minor sonic issue I ever ran into was with an Ortofon Winfeld MC, that had a bit of searing treble - which was probably due to interaction with the heavy tonearm and my speakers at the time, more than anything else. The Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Kontrapunkt "c" and Koetsu stones have all sounded outright "magical" on this deck, with proper supporting gear. The various Benzes (Glider L2, Wood M2, Ref 3 Wood) have also sounded quite excellent.
I also love my ClearAudio Master Innovation (I previously also had the regular Innovation Wood), but you have to work so much harder to isolate those decks. And so much more $. Sonically, they’re also more on the technical side of analog reproduction. And it’s extremely impressive & enjoyable too, once you get it all right - but the SOTA has a more traditional analog sound.
@mulveling @ryskie I’m interested to hear your thoughts on the SOTA sound. I was about to pull the trigger on an RP8, but the SOTA Sapphire V (2016, non vacuum) seems like a great deal on a solid TT. Again, the arm pairing for now is Origin Live Silver MK3 (which SOTA offers in their recommended pairings).
Would be interested to hear what you think SOTA’s strong suits are? The suspension looks awesome as does the build quality. I’ve just not had the opportunity to hear how the SOTA sounds.
SOTA was purchased by employees several years ago, and is doing fine right now (Kirk passed, but Donna is still owner). They're even working on new product development, including a series increment to the current table lineup, and a high-end rack. Still USA-made. Far from "long gone".
They did a bang-up job on my Star/Nova rebuild this summer. Check out their Facebook page.
I know they still make VPI tables. SOTA is long gone Or a take over now The 3rd table from the UK they make better tables in the UK at same price point. So VPI wins + USA made. ONLY IMO
I'd say pursue the Rega RP-6, as it offers a better tonearm, and subclass. As far as altering its overall sonics by using an acrylic platter as opposed to the glass one it was voiced with, never really stuck me as the way to go......., I'd instead address the issue of tonearm wiring or isolation footers, as well as install either Verizon of the Autorium 23 LP mat before being sidetracked. I find Rega's from a particle standpoint to offer better value when replacing their motors units as well, look into pricing said items, and it becomes clear, while some tend to think that costlier units are the norm...., look at tables like the Nottingham's, where spinning the platter once or twice offers enough torgue for any sized record out there, be it 180 to 200 grams, mass isn't everything......., but it does count as far as ones amp or speaker stands go. To my way of thinking........, if so many American made wares are so great?, why then have imported wares been with us for what seems like forever?, it's because besides looks, so base their purchases upon the items abilities to play notes properly, no?.
Thank you all for the input/recommendations. I do enjoy my current Rega (2016 Planar 3) and wonder if the step up to RP8 + Dynavector 20x2 will be the sweet spot.
I had a chance to hear the VPI Prime, and did not like the sound compared to the Rega. There is a used Acoustic Signature WOW XL in the mix, but wont be able to audition it before purchasing, which concerns me.
If anyone has experience with the WOW XL would be interested to hear your thoughts! Thanks.
Not taking a side in this choice, but as someone who's been around a lot of Rega and VPI rigs, I'd say they sound far enough apart it's likely you will strongly prefer one to the other. And in my opinion, the only person who can determine which side you're on is to give a decent listen to each
I have a Sota Star Sapphire with an SME V arm. Love the whole thing. The vacuum hold is amazing and the speed is dead on accurate.
But the number one selling point for me is the suspension. I can literally hit the shelf it sits on with my fist and it will not affect playback at all. This was crucial as i had it on a credenza for years, which was on our wood floors. Kids running around would cause the needle to jump all over the place. Now I could bounce a basketball next to it with no effect.
Ok, so the Rega and SOTA seem to be off the table for the time being. Does anyone have experience with the Acoustic Signature WOW XL? This would be with a TA700 tonearm. Roughly same price point and is with someone locally.
I hopefully will have a chance to hear both the VPI Prime and Acoustic Signature head to head...
Not to make things more complicated, but there are a couple Rega RP8 and even an RP10 on the used market that are in my price range. Any thoughts on these versus the VPI Prime? Or is the Prime just in a whole other ballpark? Thanks!
Thank you all for the input. It is all super helpful.
Regarding VPI, why do some people dislike the unipivot? I don't have experience with anything other than the Rega RB330, so would be helpful to hear the positives and negatives of the unipivot design.
Also, with the VPI Prime, what interconnect do people recommend using? Is it important for this match well with the phono stage? Would be interested to hear thoughts/suggestions on this and what others are using. Thanks!!
I have one of the original SOTA Saphires, bought new in the 80's. It has always been a great machine and still is, IMO. Only problem or upgrade I've ever done was a new power supply and clamp.............No experience with other TT's, never felt the need. ACOS Lustre GST 801 and yes, it does have on the fly VTA, rare at that time I think.
I can't say how much better the new models are, but after 30 years +/- I'm sure they are................Easy to set up, easy to use, great suspension, easy to upgrade, I just never bothered..............Can't go wrong with SOTA, although there are certainly others out there as good or better, depending on your bank account.
OP, No experience with the Origin arm, but if SOTA's bundling it then I'd trust that they justifiably consider it a good match and value with their tables. I called up SOTA years ago asking about an armboard for a VPI 10.5 arm (dealer wanted trade me one), and they said in no uncertain terms "NOT recommended". I never liked the feel of wobbly VPI unipivots anyways. My vintage FR arm has been a brilliant match. I think you want rigid gimbal bearings on a suspended table, though the heavily damped and stabilized Graham Phantom unipivots should do well too.
I'm a "set-it and forget-it" guy when it comes to VTA. I find a setting that sounds best for most records, and leave it there. I even have a Graham Phantom Supreme on my ClearAudio deck, with easy on-the-fly VTA, and never touch it once it's been set for a cartridge.
I really like the ClearAudio decks too. They do get spendy. I bought my Innovation Master, used trade-in, on large discount from a dealer. The Marantz rebadged CA mentioned above is from their older line. I've seen some pretty mixed reviews on that one. Their current lineup is simply outstanding; I've played with many of them. I'd only advise you stay away from the fully magnetic bearing Clarify arm. It's a mess. Don't go fully magnetic on arm bearings. The hybrid rigid/magnetic Magnify arm is outstanding.
Spending more money on a Rega? Trying to turn the proverbial sow’s ear into a silk purse? Ain’t gonna happen. Throwing good money after bad. Rega performance is very limited compared to VPI tables or SOTA tables.
The "Delux Groovetracer", tone arm wire, acrylic platter, plus the heavyweight will take the Rega to another level that rivals the Sota, but that would also include a new motor for the Rega.
I owned the Marantz TT essentially made by Clearaudio with the Vituoso Wood cart. I never liked the magnetic tracking approach it had. Moved to a VPI Scout 1.1 with a Soundsmith Zephyr. I remember clearly first record I played - I was surprised at how quiet the background was and very little surface noise coming from an old well-played lp. The uni-pivot arm is great as it is unreal how it can track a warped record - with clamp on of course. I upgraded to a MIMC Star cart and was more impressed. If I upgrade it will be to another VPI table with on the fly VTA only, not even up for debate. You can’t go wrong with VPI for the money. I too am a music freak and not a tweaker. 48 years of collecting rock, jazz, blues, and the music that does not fit in categories!
Soundwatts is correct. Almost any VPI turntable is the best choice. The older tables are excellent as is the prime. Their product support is excellent and their are many options for small upgrades that improve performance. One of these is the dual pivot assembly which I would recommend you purchase for the arm.
If you have a good deal on the table for a VPI prime, I would go for it. You will not regret it . Great table and great company with a team behind it that has the best customer support I have ever experienced. They really stand behind their products
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