Well, In the beginning the sound was too dry with an unfocused sound, lacking space.
After some 175-200 hours the sound became far more smoother and openness came in. This process continued until around 425 hours on the clock. From this point on I am proportional happy with the sound, which is transparent, focused, very smooth, coherent and unforced with a solid low end.
Proportional, because I still use the stock powercord, which I intend to change shortly in one of the aftermarkets, Shunyata Anaconda CX, Furutech Powerflux, Nordost Valhalla or whatsoever came in in this quality region.
The only aftermarket pc I listen until now was a Belden, which was a great disappointment.
Good luck! |
Well, that's good news. I would recommend trying every power cord in your house whether it's a high-end replacement or not. The one that comes with the player is pretty bad. I got improved sound just by grabbing one out of a drawer that I had left over from a computer or guitar amp or something. I have a Zu Cable Bok which I intend to use eventually, but I have to make a slight modification (i.e. big hole) in the back of my equipment cab to accommodate the cable, since the 5400ES is so deep. |
One more thing, It could just be my imagination but the power cable upgrade seems to be accelerating the break in. I hear improvements every time I check in on it. |
I think people forget something - they have a given CD player and they optimize the system to get it to sound it's best. They select the right ICs and PCs, move the speakers around, etc. Then they substitute something new and little wonder it may not sound right. You might have to move the speakers a bit or purchase a different IC or whatever. |
I don't disagree Chayro, but in the beginning I like to keep the rest of the system as the constant in the equation. That way I feel I'm measuring the differences between the new player and the one it replaced. After I'm convinced it's staying, and I feel I've got a pretty good handle on how it differs from the old unit, I can make any necessary adjustments.
Since this Sony is replacing another Sony, I would think those adjustments will likely be minimal. Frankly, I was 99% happy with the sound of the XA7ES, I just wanted to replace it while it was still working and sounding good and I knew that newer players would offer some improvements. The 5400ES is sounding better and better, except for the aforementioned power cable I'll be surprised if I change anything else.
One more thing, this was way more than "may not sound right". The sound of this player during break-in with the stock power cord was dramatically inferior to the sound the player is capable of with simply a better generic cable. It was really that bad. Just read my "big mistake" post. I wasn't exaggerating. |
At just over 300 hours, I'm very pleased with what I'm hearing. If there's a better cd player out there, I'm certain I can't afford it. |
I agree with the power cord upgrade. I was using a Harmonic Tech Pro-AC11 PC which was better than the standard power cord but when I added an Elrod EPS-2 power cord holy cow the sounds were so much richer and fuller. I can't believe the change. I highly recommend the Elrod PC cords. This is my first but not my last. |
I just use a heavy duty generic power cord and it sounds very good.I tried some very expensive power cords and I personally could not hear any difference with my Bryston gear or this( not saying there isn't a difference but rather I simply am not able to hear it).I guess I am lucky as it saves me a whole lot of money. |
My main player is an EMM CDSD-SE/DCC2-SE. I got the 5400 for a 2nd system. All of my impressions are from mostly Redbook listening with Harbeth SHL5s and a variety of high-end modern headphones. (I find the Sony really benefits from good ICs: my Stealth Indras[RCA] were much better, especially in the bass quality and integration, than Cardas Golden Cross.) Yes, the EMM pair has wonderful control, palpability, and solid bass and sweet highs. But the Sony, which has a different presentation, gives it a run for the money. It has a delicacy that is stunning, and also preserves each musical element's character. Vocals are rounded and airy and do not shout. In fact there is no dreaded digital shout. Everything takes its place in an overall stable fabric that is non-fatiguing. There is nice combination of velvety smoothness along with just the right amount of texture and bite. The bass is not as well defined as the EMM, but it is a pleasant bass that is soothing and has good impact, but not an impact that sounds boom-boxy.
I would say the Sony walks the line to avoid offending but still hints strongly at reality. The EMM has a you-are-there feeling that the Sony does not. However, I can almost sense that the Sony was carefully tuned by ear by someone who knows what good old vinyl sounds like. Someone took a real Goldilocks approach to this player.
It is more open and well defined and less constricted and just plain better than (by memory) my old Accuphase DP75V. It's a keeper for me. |
"The EMM has a you-are-there feeling that the Sony does not."
Well, that's sort of what it's all about, isn't it? Once you've experienced that in your hifi, it's very hard to go back. Of course, if you've never experienced a player that brings the performance into your room (to the extent possible) you won't miss it. |
@Chayro, yes it is hard to go back. But I've never been a believer in the absolute sound concept. Different perspectives keep things interesting. That's why I have lots of headphones and love to listen to something first on one phone than others. The Sony is more gentle than real live music, but it is, well, gentle on my mind. It is NOT some mid-fi thing that makes me think I would be better off listening to talk radio with my time. The Sony has a golden-glow style, a coloration I guess, but with digital, there are far worse evils. Long ago I had a Sony SCD777ES that was just plain terrible to my ears (with vocals that sounded like a cheap radio) so I guess I am a little shocked at the how much better the 5400 is. FWIW, it sounds really nice through a pair of Grado PS1000 headphones. |
The last 3 posts are comparing apples and oranges. The EMM is a $10k set up, while the Sony is 1/10 that cost. Most of us in the real world can't spend the value of a used car on a CDP. |
Tgyeti - point of this thread is that the Sony is the best player under $10K. If that's true, the Sony should be as good as the EMM. The Sony is a nice machine that does a lot of things well, but it doesn't cost 10K or sound like it does. Or 8K or 6K. If you think it does, then it does. |
IF YOU WERE TO HAVE JENA-LABS OF OREGON MODIFY A STOCK $499.00 BASIC OPPO-83 LIKE I DID THEN YOU PROBABLY WOULD NOT EVEN BE INTERESTED IN THE SONY. JENNIFER CROCK ROCKS!
WHAT AN AMAZING VALUE.UNLIKE ALL OF THE OTHER OPPO MODDERS SHE IS A TRUE SONICS ENGINEER AND NOT JUST A HOBBYIST WHO SWAPS PARTS. |
Chayro - I don't believe the title of the thread, I know the Sony probably doesn't sound as good as a 10k player. That's not MY point. I just find your conversation silly.
My Rolls is better than your Kia! Well, no kidding ..lol.
*as an aside .... didn't a first generation Ipod beat a 10k - 20k CDP in a BLIND test before a large audience* |
Well, I don't know much about Ipods, but if you're saying that more expensive players sound better than cheaper players of the same generation, I agree with you. |
As far as quality the Sony 5400 has very good build quality just because the plant moved to Malaysia does not mean this quality went with it .While in Europe I seen a writeup that shows a state of the are Co. that are trained my Sonys best and have tight QUALITY CONTROL , very good internal components The dual R core transformers are make in Japan as well as the capacitors and the transport is only 2nd best behind Esoteric, the Burrbrown dacs and reciever chips are made in the U.S.A -aka Texas instruments.If this was still made in Japan where labor is 3x higher this unit would be over $4500 this is what Sonys
rep said which a is true of the labor costs ,also inside is very well layed out .This unit does take some 500 hours to fully runin myself and several others have logged hours at least 2 fell weeks 24-7 just for it to smooth out .
I will say one thing though I Heard the New Modwright Ultimate mod for the Sony 5400 while out west against a Esoteric 03-SE which is a very good unit the Sony was a much more musical unit ,you wil see I am sure some exceptinal reviews coming out on this .It was so good My unit is now at Modwrights getting transformed IMO one of the best deals in all of audio ! I will tell you exactly how it sounds once back in my system by mid July . |
Audioman58, good point in your post. I have never run my CDPs 24X7. My question is, will this not have adverse affect on the Laser - like shortening it's life unusually be the constant light/heat it emits? |
In response to the laser 3weeks is nothing myself and others have had even cheap cd players for years also please keep in mind the Sony 5400 cd-sacd player has 2 lasers for the sacd has it's own decoder and needs several hundred hours to run in , if you don;t have a sacd disc
then Buy one they sound great and you can run in a new unit with the sacd side first.
I have my first initial impressions available on my Modwright Ultimate mod for the Sony 5400 ,and even with only 75 hours on it , and 400 is needed for full breakin
it is very very natural sounding the music just flows out if the speakers ,sure it is somewhat closed in still and the fron to back layering is not quite there yet ,but the timber of a stringed instrument like a Cello or a drum head has great timber with outstanding seperation of instruments ,and being it is not even close to being runin that is saying a lot .I can say with conviction
any $10k unit will have a hard time following this player
just checkout how extensive this build is at Modwright , also the seperate Vacuum tube power supply probably weighs
10 lbs on it's own and the 6sn7 Vacuum tubes for the New analog section give it much more dimention and Make the stock unit sound broken.
Dan at Modwright hit this one out of the park ! |
Not sure if anyone is still following this thread but I'm looking to gather your opinions...After 3-4 months with my 5400ES, I can no longer tolerate,nor can I seem to do anything to eliminate the GLARE in the upper mids. The player scores PERFECTLY in virtually every other area but in my system (which I'll describe below) the upper mid glare on things like the upper range of piano is really irritating. Horns are more spit than bell, snares are more spring than skin, and stringed instruments are more bow than body. (and did I mention that David Russell now sounds like his fingernails need trimming?) I can minimize this artifact by swapping power cables but then I'm also altering other characteristics when I do. Interconnects, I've tried every pair in the house, same with speaker cables, and I've also tried two pairs of speakers.
The way I see it, my choices are: Spend a couple thousand dollars on various power cables and hope I get lucky (the unit responds to pc swaps pretty dramatically), have the unit modified (not something I would normally consider and I would prefer not to have any tubes added to my system), or replace the player. Since I am presently of "limited means" the most likely replacement would be an Arcam CD37 since I have a dealer friend who gives me great deals and because I've spent $300 on SACD's since I got the Sony.
Opinions?? (I know, I'm opening up Pandora's box here)
My system is Marsh Sound Design P2000/A200S, HT Truth Link and Pro-11 cables, and either one of two pairs of ProAc speakers, Response 2's or Tablette 50 Sigs ( I prefer to use the Tabs since the listening space is small and I realize that they are adding to the problem as they are a bit brighter than the R2's. I eventually plan on selling both pairs and grabbing the Response D1's)
Sidebar: The 5400ES replaced an XA7ES which never sounded harsh or offensive. I'm currently listening to an Arcam CD17 I borrowed from my friend which sounds nice and relaxed but lacks the detail retrieval and dynamic range of the Sony.Certainly no glare on the CD17 but the timbrel accuracy of the Sony isn't there either. Does anyone know of a mod which will just address the glare issue on the Sony without adding a pair of tubes sticking up through the top of the chassis?
Before you tube guys start railing on me, I've owned complete ARC and C-J tube systems in my life,and I'm an electric guitar player of 40+ years. "I got nuthin' against tubes!" Just want a SS stereo this time around. |
I would certainly consider the VSE mods to your 5400 with the Terra Firma Lite clock. I heard this in Allen Wright's system in Schaffhausen and he uses Acoustats so any glare in the delivery system would be exposed. You need precision in the treble region with the Tablettes. No valves in the VSE board.
Are those amps balanced or single-ended?
Regards, |
Presently, I'm running them single ended but balanced connections are available. As a former C-J user, all my best cables were single ended.
I'll check out Allen's mod. I had only seen the Modwright mod with those 6sn7's poking up through the top. Any idea how much the VSE mod costs? |
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That sounds enticing and I appreciate your thoughtful suggestion, however at this time, the only way I could raise that much money would be to SELL the 5400ES (as well as a few other things). I don't know if I possess the nerves it must take to spend that much on a mod. In better days perhaps, but I'm semi-retired now and cash flow isn't what it used to be. I may call Bill at Music Technology (where they install the VSE mods) and speak with him about it. He won't remember me by name, but we have a mutual friend, so maybe he'll spend a few minutes on the phone with me. If he can assure me that the mod will get me to where I want to go, then maybe I'll hang onto the Sony and figure out how to raise the money.
Meanwhile, the Arcam on loan (which is the lower priced unit, not the CD37 I would purchase) is beginning to sound pretty darn good. Being an audiophile in a small market is getting really frustrating because there just aren't any opportunities to audition much of anything! My friend is always happy to order things like the 5400 and the Arcam and he gives me a good enough price that I can listen for a few months and get out without losing my shirt if I don't like the equipment, but I'm limited to what he can get me.
If we had better public transportation I would just sell my car and get something REALLY nice. My car wouldn't get me a DCS rig but it could get me a Wadia. :-) |
I understand completely. I'm still working so there is still a little cash coming in.
Anyway, it can't hurt to talk to Bill. Best of luck to you.
Regards, |
Have you tried any resonance or vibration controls underneath CDP? I use Aurios MIB's under my transport and they do wonderful things. Just a thought well short of a mod.
I had this player for a few months and last thing I heard was glare; couldn't get any "life" out of it, but I know many love it.
Neal |
I have everything on tiptoes. I've also tried resonance control on the top and bottom of the player. I've tried four power cords, ferrite magnets, power conditioner IN and OUT of the system, four pairs of interconnects(though I still like to call them patch cables :-)), two pairs of speaker cables, single barrel bourbon, and turning my chair around so it faces away from the speakers. Each of these things made a difference obviously (except the bourbon) but the glare remains in varying degrees. The power cable swaps and the conditioner changes seem to have the most impact on the offending frequencies.
As for getting any "life" out of it, I'd have to say it has the best dynamic range of any player I've ever heard (yeah, really!) but the mids are a bit recessed and as a result it doesn't have quite the palpable "instruments in the room" effect that my old XA7ES had.
Sorry if my humor is out of line, I really appreciate you're weighing in. I was actually thinking this morning of taking the tiptoes OUT of the equation. It seems like every tweak that made my old player sound better makes this one sound worse. The rest of the system has been fed by numerous sources over the years so I'm pretty confident nothing is being caused by pre/power/speakers.
I'm surprised no one has offered any opinions of the Arcam CD37. I was hoping someone had made a comparison they could share. I will say that the borrowed CD17 is starting to sound pretty sweet and I will even go on record (in case anyone is doing a forum search) as saying that it sounds as good as my old XA7ES. It's a little tubby in the mid bass but that's easier to remedy.
What sort of equipment/cables were you using when you had the 5400? As I stated in an earlier post, I thought the included cable was a joke. |
Kudos to you Prsmccarty if you garner that much pleasure out of micromanaging your system the way you do. I know you're not alone here, but it strikes me as a bit obssesive compulsive, IMO
Perhaps the Clever Little Clock may help (Google it for a laugh) ... or that little jar of pebbles for $795 (again, a real product ....lol) |
LOL who said I was garnering PLEASURE?!?! It's more of a curse than a blessing. :-)
I had a revelation while I was doing some listening this evening and I'm going to try something else in the morning. It's late now and I'm just not up to it. It'll probably keep me awake and I'll be doing it at 4am.
Seriously though, all those tweaks make a difference and often tweaks are the difference between good and great results. I often reminisce about systems and equipment I've owned in the past and thought "if I only knew then what I know now". The devil is in the details, and details are what this hobby is about, right?I learned a long time ago (and learned the hard way) that you can't just buy a bunch of expensive components, hook them together, and expect them to sound magical.
As I was trying all the patch cables I have, I got to a very old pair of cables which I've had since the 80's. They immediately made my system sound two dimensional with no soundstage depth whatsoever. How many power amps do you think I sold back then because "they didn't have any soundstage depth"? It bothered me for days to think of the potentially great pieces of gear I'd sold off because I was using crappy cables.
I DO draw the line at pebbles, coins on my speakers, funky stick things that go on a stand in the middle of your room and various other bizarre tweaks. I will say however, that if you blindfolded me and set a book on top of my cd player I could not only tell that you did so, I could tell you which side you set it on. I've already proven that one out with a friend who thought I was crazy.
I'll keep you all posted on tomorrow's tweak. |
I bought Neal's XA5400ES and am very pleased with its portrayal of timbre, dynamic range, and soundstage. In my system the sound is detailed yet smooth. I use analog XLR interconnects to my preamp, and replaced the power cord with something that looks like a garden hose.
db
|
At this time it appears as though I have traced the issue to another part of the system (after I so boldly proclaimed it wasn't) and the Sony was not the culprit. I'll need another day or so to be sure, but for now things sound pretty awesome. Glare is gone and nothing touches the 5400ES when it comes to detail, dynamics and soundstage as you have stated.
If my preliminary observations are correct, I'll post a more detailed report. Special thanks to my friend who loaned me the Arcam. If I had not had such a different sounding player to swap into the system I never would have traced the problem.
Also, special thanks to Audiogon for allowing me to have this forum as a vehicle to show the rest of the audiophile community just what a flaky basket case I can be! I promise you guys, I'm not this screwed up when it comes to the REST of my life. :-) |
we are cool this is just a hobby where you are suppose to have fun. |
Yeah, maybe I was too hard on Tgyeti, I really DO love tweaking this stuff. I think I'm going to try and DIY that pebbles tweak he was talking about :-) |
I used to own one and even had it upgraded. It sounds pretty good, but in my view the 10K+ giant killer claim is pure hype. I now own the Marantz ud9004 universal player, which sounds better analog out. The marantz as digital transport into my PS audio perfectwave DAC is better still. |
I think it all depends on the rest of the system. The only thing I know for sure is at a mrsp of $1500 the Sony is truly amazing in my system and I have no plans to change it anytime soon.It replaced an Esoteric X-03 se . |
I got one of these a few days ago, replacing a Rotel Rcc 1055.
The one word that best describes the sound is WOW. Very smooth, easy on the ears, highly detailed are also traits I notice. I am now playing music I thought I knew only to discover what I have been missing. There are sonds that I am understanding lyrics that I had not understood before. This is strange but, very nice. The ear fatigue is gone.
It is making me think about selling my analogue front end
and replacing the vinyl with cds. Radical heresy I understand but it would result in me listening more due to the ease of use factor.
I will see what 500 hours of burn in can do plus I have new speaker cables coming this week so that will take some time to settle in also.
I am very hapyy with this Sony...no baloney. |
I believe the sound steadily improved with my unit for the first 200-300 hours but who knows, perhaps it is all in my head.I just know I like it even better now than initially. |
How does it compare with Perfectwave Transport? (which plays redbook only) |
It can't be compared to the Perfectwave Transport. How do you compare an integrated CD/SACD player to something that is a transport only? |
Everest Audio, your point taken.
Let me rephrase it. May I ask how does it compare with PWT+PWD (or Wyred DAC2)? Thank you. |
I have a 9100ES SACD / DVD Modwright Platinum mod. I'm quite happy with it, but am thinking about Blu-Ray, and thus Oppo 83SE (perhaps with Dan's tube mod). Any thoughts regarding the tubed ModWright Oppo vs. tubed ModWright 5400ES? If I had a fat bankroll, I would simply buy one of each of these machines and sell the 9100ES here on AudiogoN. Recommendations? |
ask dan.
though FWIW when i spoke to him, he said for absolute performance the sony is superior. for all in one convenience while yielding little, get the oppo. |
Thanks Rhyno,
Dan was a bit vague when I asked him about the comparisons between the two tube-modded players, although in fairness that was a few months back--probably before he was able to make definite conclusions. I'll stick with my original plan and keep the 9100 AND get the tubed Oppo (when a few more funds arrive). That way I have Blu-Ray, DVD-Audio, etc., and still have "near $10,000 sound" with my Platinum 9100ES (which is probably on a par with the tubed Oppo and a notch below the 5400 on CD and SACD, from what everyone is saying). Mystery solved! Thanks again. |
Thanks Rhyno,
Dan was a bit vague when I asked him about the comparisons between the two tube-modded players, although in fairness that was a few months back--probably before he was able to make definite conclusions. I'll stick with my original plan and keep the 9100 AND get the tubed Oppo (when a few more funds arrive). That way I have Blu-Ray, DVD-Audio, etc., and still have "near $10,000 sound" with my Platinum 9100ES (which is probably on a par with the tubed Oppo and a notch below the 5400 on CD and SACD, from what everyone is saying). Mystery solved! Thanks again. |
I contacted Modwright about a week ago and was told that Dan prefers the modded 5400 to the modded Oppo. However, the person I spoke to prefers the Oppo for its' warmth. I'm trying to find out whether these units actually compare
with 10K or more units. Has anyone actually compared them to Emm, ARC, Playback, Cary, Ayon, etc.? I just find it hard to believe that the Oppo, in particular, can be in this elite status. |
This Is from Japs Stereo Sound Magazine:
The Best CD/SACD Players for 2009:
1. Denon DSD-SX
2. Pioneer PD-D9 Mk2
3. Marantz SA-13S2
4. Sony SCD-XA5400es
5. Esoteric SA-10
6. Esoteric SA-50
7. Link Majik CD
8. Accuphase DP-700
9. Metronome CD1 Signature
10. Playback MPS-5 |
There's a ModWright 5400 up for sale now. Perhaps the seller can shed some light on the sonics? |
Need know anyone has comapred this to Jolida 100 .. tried searching the forum, but was unable to get Jolida and 5400 on the same thread.
I have Joilda 100 (modified) for last 5-6 years, happy with the Jolida sound but have few SACDs as well and looking for player with SACD/CD capability trying to figure out is it worth getting Sony XA 5400 ES, will it be improvement over Joilda 100 for playing CDs. other components are
Odyssey - tempest, Stratos, and Usher CP 6381 speakers.
Thanks, |
This Is from Japs Stereo Sound Magazine:
The Best CD/SACD Players for 2009:
1. Denon DSD-SX
2. Pioneer PD-D9 Mk2
3. Marantz SA-13S2
4. Sony SCD-XA5400es
5. Esoteric SA-10
6. Esoteric SA-50
7. Link Majik CD
8. Accuphase DP-700
9. Metronome CD1 Signature
10. Playback MPS-5
Is that a joke - the Playback behind all those other machines? Or is the list not ordered? |
missing from the conversation is the implicit connotation that what is "best" is not absolute and hence dependes upon on'es criteria.
it has often been said that there is no best, so while it is entertaining to discusss the merits of the sony player, it is a philosophical and/or rhetorical question--it has no definitive answer.
there is no best anything in life, period. |
