I’m learning not to engage(waste keystrokes on) those that have something to prove, outside of those that trust their ears and wish to prove, for themselves, whether some things, not easily explained, can result in better sound(my only agenda).
Something For The Fuse Guys ...
There are fuses, and then, there are fuses.
I'm evaluating some prototype fuses that I received in the mail three days ago.
Over the past few years, I've used fuses from five different manufacturers. The last three were the Red, Black and Blue fuses from Synergistic Research. Each one incrementally improved the sound of my system. My favorite so far was the SR Blue.
The prototype fuses being evaluated presently raises the SQ beyond all of the others mentioned above. The major improvement to my ears is better tonal accuracy. Instruments and voices are more life-like. The noise is reduced allowing for a more solid 3-D presentation with the musicians more solidly presented on the sound stage. Overall, more information is fleshed out of CDs and LPs.
The manufacturer, the price and the name of the prototype fuses will come later. I don't have the information thus far. My understanding is, if all works out, the release date is to be mid-October.
Stay tuned ...
Frank
I'm evaluating some prototype fuses that I received in the mail three days ago.
Over the past few years, I've used fuses from five different manufacturers. The last three were the Red, Black and Blue fuses from Synergistic Research. Each one incrementally improved the sound of my system. My favorite so far was the SR Blue.
The prototype fuses being evaluated presently raises the SQ beyond all of the others mentioned above. The major improvement to my ears is better tonal accuracy. Instruments and voices are more life-like. The noise is reduced allowing for a more solid 3-D presentation with the musicians more solidly presented on the sound stage. Overall, more information is fleshed out of CDs and LPs.
The manufacturer, the price and the name of the prototype fuses will come later. I don't have the information thus far. My understanding is, if all works out, the release date is to be mid-October.
Stay tuned ...
Frank
666 responses Add your response
roberttcan43 posts10-21-2019 5:58pm75% of the world believes in a deity, pick any of those people and between 50% and 99% of that 75% thinks their deity is a delusion. 100% of those 75% have absolutely no verifiable proof that a deity exists." People are free to observe, practice, and follow they're religion without being subject to your threats, insults, and attacks and none of us have to prove anything to you so you're attacks on faith and religion have no place here. |
roberttcan"As does the number of people following religion, mainly due to high birth rates in highly religious societies (outside the US)." People are free to observe, practice, and follow they're religion without being subject to your threats, insults, and attacks. " As does the amount spent on Homepathic remedies. As does the amount spent on penis pills." I do not know what you mean by "penis pills" you seem to be suffering from some cognitive problem. |
roberttcan"If anyone, I mean anyone actually did a controlled listening test, not even measurements, but an actual controlled listening test (which is double blind by the way), then may, just maybe there would be no ridicule when one claims enormous improvements" Users are free to post hear free of you're personal attacks, ridicule, and threats there is no need to conduct scientific tests even though many of us have done just that. |
Steps in the Scientific Process:
If anyone, I mean anyone actually did a controlled listening test, not even measurements, but an actual controlled listening test (which is double blind by the way), then may, just maybe there would be no ridicule when one claims enormous improvements .... just like the other enormous improvements all the other tweaks did. I hate to think that the system started out like ... rodman999994,102 posts10-21-2019 9:49pmSteps in the Scientific Process:
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I’ve been eating a lot of fish!You stink Step 7: Get SR themselves to start posting to refute any claims about their fuses no these pages and the danger that the "non technical" are putting themselves into playing around inside their equipment. Step 8: They won’t, as the moment they do they become liable if any of the "non technical" get injured or hurt with electrocution, swapping in and out AC mains fuses with their knowledge, they leave it up to their shills and maybe Agon to take the blame. |
Steps in the Scientific Process:
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paullk So just hypotheticaly wouldn't say swaping the fuses with solid copper bypasses net you the best sound? Assuming there is a large gain here, you could then swap different fuses in and out to see which ones affect the sound the least. YOU Can't Handle the Truth! ...okay, you probably can, but let's start with background. Most audiophile equipment uses linear power supplies. Not all, but most. Let's stick to power amps though ... and most use linear supplies. In a linear power supply, there is only conduction between the AC line and the storage capacitors of the supply for a relatively small portion of the AC waveform. In North America, at 120 times/second, the AC line is contributing power to the capacitors for somewhere between say 0 - 2.5msecs out of 16.6msecs. 0 when the volume is low, 2.5 when it is high. The 2.5 is variable based around static load of the amplifier, post regulation, amplifier feedback to reject power supply noise, etc. It could be more, but in high quality amps with enormous capacitor banks, it is often quite small. So now let's throw in the concept of power supply rejection ratio. This is how much of the ripple on the AC power supply ends up in audio output going to the speakers. It varies a lot from amp to amp, but in general, it is highest at low frequencies and lowest at high frequencies. What that means is the amplifier is usually pretty tolerant to "noise/ripple" in the power supply at base frequencies, but sensitive at high frequencies. So, 1 or 2 volts or ripple at 120Hz on the power supply caps may be totally inaudible, but if you had 1-2 volts at 2KHz, their would be an audible buzz. The power supply for the high power rails is often quite simple ... a fuse, some EMI caps/inductors, and a big transformer followed by diodes and those caps. Those diodes turn on/off really quick, and that causes high frequency noise. The noise a factor of current and how fast the current transitions from on to off, which is a factor of how fast the voltage transitions across that diode, which is a factor of the bandwidth of the circuit comprising those capacitors, transformer, EMI components, and fuse. What reduces bandwidth? ... Resistance. Resistance can reduce the noise of the diode transitions which reduces the high frequency noise where the audio circuit is most susceptible. Nothing is ever this simple, but the simple answer is no, a wire is not always better and in many cases may be worse, especially in lower power equipment. That resistance not only reduces noise in the component, but also reduces noise from the component getting out onto the AC line. |
Debunk would imply that they have ever (and I do mean EVER) been proven to have any positive impact. Like I said, YOU will not be able to show even one documented, controlled listening test that indicates any positive benefit of a high priced fuse in an AC line. Why? ..... because they don't exist. People regularly offer the sellers of these fuses bets, significant money .... if they can show they make an improvement (heck even a change). If they are so dramatic, it should be easy peasy. So why don't they exist? 10-21-2019 7:22pmPseudo skeptics have been using religion, placebo effect, UFOs, alternative medicine, Wine tasting, pharma double-blind testing and other ridiculous examples to try to debunk audiophile devices like fuses, wire directionality and many other controversial things for years. You can’t debunk something that’s not bunk. |
Pseudo skeptics have been using religion, expectation bias, placebo effect, holistic or alternative medicine, mass hallucination, subliminal messages, UFOs, alternative medicine, Wine tasting, pharma double-blind testing and other ridiculous examples to try to debunk audiophile devices like fuses, wire directionality, and many other controversial things for years. You can’t debunk something that’s not bunk. Are you an escapee from Randi’s Education Foundation? |
As does the number of people following religion, mainly due to high birth rates in highly religious societies (outside the US). As does the amount spent on Homepathic remedies. As does the amount spent on penis pills. I would not be proud of this fact. geoffkait At least my estimated number of fancy fuses sold continues to go up. 🤡 |
Nope Geoffy boy, they are perfect examples. You were using a bandwagon fallacy. 100,000 people have jumped on the fuse bandwagon, therefore it is a great idea. You are also using a blind loyalty argument and a confirmation bias with a bit of circular reasoning thrown in for good measure. My examples address all those items. $400+ million / year spent on Homeopathic and many, just like fuses, claim it works wonders. Oh, my VW Rabbit is fantastically reliable, I mean just look how many are on the road. The Homeopathy argument, like fuses, breaks down as soon as it is exposed to controlled testing. With 100,000 fuses sold, surely you can point to 3, 4, 10 controlled listening tests ... you know multiple subjects, double blind, AB or better ABX controlled? ... No? .... but you probably have a 100,000 excuses why not. Am I right? How are those penis pills working out? :-) 10-21-2019 6:06pmYour examples make no sense in the context of audio. No offense intended. In fact your examples are excellent examples of logical fallacies. |
75% of the world believes in a deity, pick any of those people and between 50% and 99% of that 75% thinks their deity is a delusion. 100% of those 75% have absolutely no verifiable proof that a deity exists. Somewhere around 50-100 million American's believe the Earth is 10,000 years old or less, though there is 0 proof that is true. Homeopathic medicine is a $400+ million/year business in America alone, even though not once has it shown to have any positive benefit. 2% of Americans, or 7,000,000 people are convinced the Earth is flat. Millions bought V.W. Golfs/Rabbits in the 80's/90's under the impression they were reliable cars. There was never any objective evidence this was true. They were even less reliable than North American cars. They were just popular. But perhaps most apt is the size of the Penis size pill enhancer market is estimated at $50-100/million per year ... and guess what, they don't do anything. You are trying to plead to authority, use "mass" rules, and any number of logical fallacies all at once. |
Because no company that vends in snake oil is big enough or has deep enough pockets do even begin to warrant the time and effort of a law firm working on contingency fees to even consider touching this. The larger the company you will note the more careful they are in their claim. Now if someone was injured or suffered severe property damage from a product that has not undergone adequate safety testing ... that would be a different ball game. clearthink903 posts10-21-2019 2:28pmwolf_garcia"All nonsense with expectation bias driving new users to the fraudulently misrepresented Magic Fuses," Fraud! Fraud! Fraud! Once again we see charges of illegal activity that would delight anyone dedicated, sincere, or intelligent enough to pursue a typical American "Class Action Suit" against those perpetrating this vile, predatory, unspeakable deception on the gullible, uneducated, and naive why is it though that no one ever pursues such a claim through proper established, legal, regulatory channels perhaps it is because they themselves represent the fraud? I am just asking not making accusation! |
" Wow!!! just looked at your history, out of 8 pages of post, possibly 6 pages of which are on the Synergistic Research fuses, others are on other voodoo SR gadgets.His post got removed anyone remember what he called himself? BTW oregonpapa, wolf_garcia can see the forest for the trees, it's you fusers that can't. It's all shilling with voodoo/snake oil statements to you guys, nothing that actually contributes to the Audiogon society. |
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"Again, fuses won’t and simply don’t make any tonal differences appear from their otherwise simple place in the component, and that fact never changes." A, "fact" has to be based on something and proven. The above statement is based on nothing. That makes it an opinion. The typical naysayer, pontificating from ’The Throne of Abject Ignorance’. |
wolf_garcia"All nonsense with expectation bias driving new users to the fraudulently misrepresented Magic Fuses," Fraud! Fraud! Fraud! Once again we see charges of illegal activity that would delight anyone dedicated, sincere, or intelligent enough to pursue a typical American "Class Action Suit" against those perpetrating this vile, predatory, unspeakable deception on the gullible, uneducated, and naive why is it though that no one ever pursues such a claim through proper established, legal, regulatory channels perhaps it is because they themselves represent the fraud? I am just asking not making accusation! |
Oregonpapa is right...he's also a shill for Perfect Path as well as SR. And by "shill" I point to endless hyperbole regarding these products, with far less of that shameless support aimed at Herbie's and ARC. Not even close...posting paragraph after paragraph claiming astonishing benefits from SR's "fuse of the week" that will, if you believe this hype, utterly transform your system...with the possible caveat that you're either too insensitive to notice these astonishing benefits, or the resolution of your sadly poor little system is lacking somehow. All nonsense with expectation bias driving new users to the fraudulently misrepresented Magic Fuses, and allowing old users to come in and claim to be on board with any new fuse simply because they're part of the club. Again, fuses won't and simply don't make any tonal differences appear from their otherwise simple place in the component, and that fact never changes. |
I had some Odyssey Kismet monoblocks at one time that Klaus built for me and I asked him about aftermarket fuses and he said some make a positive sound difference and some don’t. I told him I was interested in trying some SR and AM fuses and he said to go for it and see if I like it so at least he had an open mind about it. I replaced all the fuses on the board as well as at the iec with SR Black and it indeed made a positive difference. |
^^^ Georgie-Porgie has one major flaw ... its called "lack of credibility." He constantly accuses me, and others, of being a "shill" for SR, and as of this date, he has not responded, nor even acknowledged the post I made earlier in this thread: georgehifi ... If you were to become a more astute observer, and stow your animosity for a time, you would know that I have started threads on a multitude of products. Did you read my threads on Audio Research products? How about Herbie’s products, or Perfect Path Technologies products? Have you taken advantage of any of the multitude of music recommendations I’ve offered on this site over the years, George? Why the silence, George? Why are you continuing to spew negativity all over the path you walk? Turn the telescope around, George. Try to be a more positive individual, George. (Sheesh!) Cheers .... Frank |
btw, Georgie- Anyone that looks at my post history, will find the vast majority are an effort to encourage others to experiment for themselves. Well; that and they’ll realize, how full of ..it, you are. ie: "Wow!!! just looked at your history, out of 8 pages of post, possibly 6 pages of which are on the Synergistic Research fuses, others are on other voodoo SR gadgets." ?? You’re a real case(SEEK HELP)!!! |
News flash! 💥 Exhibitors at audio shows do not (rpt not) employ tweaks. They eschew them. Maybe a few that I’m aware of use tweaks to any extent, but most prefer to exhibit brand new components. Are they still living in the 80s? The only ones who went out of their way to tweak their systems were John Curl/Bob Crump, Mapleshade and Golden Sound. If there is one manufacturer who uses aftermarket fuses, it is not a trend, it’s an outlier. One well-known German audio company (starts with a B) told the intrepid roving tweakmeister, Clark Johnsen, who was trying to get them to try out some new fangled CD treatment (was it Optrix?) - “Vee don’t believe in tweaks.” One well-known audio salon in Northern Virginia once opined, “We want our customers to experience the pure sound of our components, so we don’t use tweaks.” We’ll, that’s just super! 🙄 |
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Short memory, too:
georgehifi5,996 posts10-20-2019 7:11pm Had a pair of Odyssey amps, in house, for audition. Opened one up(with permission), to look at and test a couple things. Found Hi-Fi Are you trying to say Odyssey come new with Gold tuning fuses? If you look at all the Odyssey amps (Google images of internal shots) and there quite a few. You will see they all from what I saw, just have 20c normal 3ag or 2ag rail fuses in them, on the board right next to the speaker RF filter coil Wait a minute! maybe all the owners of those amps, threw out the "Gold Tuning Fuses" and put in the 20c ones instead because they were better!🤔 |
Can’t say if he sells his amps, with them installed.Just Google Odyssey images, and like I said they ( 4x) are next to the red coils on the pcb’s, and they are just Plain Jane 2ag and or 3ag for other models, here’s a pic they are circled in red all 20c glass fuses.. https://ibb.co/vjLRc6j https://ibb.co/1qnyQzS https://ibb.co/9cFqc2K |
".....read the post carefully, and you’ll understand the point being made."("Cheers", indeed) Excellent advice! Someone seems to have some some serious problems with comprehension. Not only about whether I said the amps come with the fancy fuses installed, but- where I said I opened one up("innards were exposed"). To recap: "Had a pair of Odyssey amps, IN HOUSE, FOR AUDITION. Opened one up(with permission), to look at and test a couple things. Found Hi-Fi Tuning Gold fuses(it’s been a while) in the rails. Never looked at the AC main fuse. HE’D JUST USED the amps for demos, AT A TRADE SHOW. Can’t say if he sells his amps, with them installed." (Emphasis added, for the comprehensively challenged) Just another one of those special moments, on this tragicomical AudiogoN site. Now: back to your regular programming. |
To all those thinking about blowing $150 on what seems to be a 20c fuse with exterior colorful "glitzing" The only way a fuse can give an improvement is if the old one has seen "too many turn on cycles" which are the highest stresses a fuse will see. And when they become too old and crusty, they end up looking like this. Just replace them only if your technically able, with the same new 20c fuse, and you’ll be back in business, forget blowing the $150 for a voodoo boutique fuse, which BTW will age just as fast as the 20c one. A slow-blo fuse "ageing" right to left https://ibb.co/m4XWgYS A fast-blo fuse "ageing" left to right https://ibb.co/5R57d8M Cheers George |
Why wouldn't an exhibitor at a trade show trick out the system a little bit? This is nothing new. The rooms are hard enough to get sounding right, so every little bit helps. I remember the first time I heard the ARC REF-75 with the KT150s installed. It was at an audio show. I already owned a REF-75 with the stock KT120s. The dealer at the show had replaced the stock tubes with th KT-150s, which I picked up on immediately upon entering the room. I asked the dealer what he did, and he pointed out the new tubes. No big deal. When I got home I called Upscale Audio and ordered four KT-150s for myself. Nice improvement to be had there. How can I get more of that stuff called ... "voodoo snake oil? Frank |
George. Please try copying and pasting ALL of Rodmans Statement instead of trying to be clever and failing miserably. Opened one up(with permission), to look at and test a couple things. Found Hi-Fi Tuning Gold fuses(it’s been a while) in the rails. Never looked at the AC main fuse. He’d just used the amps for demos, at a trade show. Can’t say if he sells his amps, with them installedCheers mate! |
Had a pair of Odyssey amps, in house, for audition. Opened one up(with permission), to look at and test a couple things. Found Hi-Fi Are you trying to say Odyssey come new with Gold tuning fuses? If you look at all the Odyssey amps (Google images of internal shots) and there quite a few. You will see they all from what I saw, just have 20c normal 3ag or 2ag rail fuses in them, on the board right next to the speaker RF filter coil Wait a minute! maybe all the owners of those amps, threw out the "Gold Tuning Fuses" and put in the 20c ones instead because they were better!🤔 Cheers George |