So where should the tubes be?

like so many things in life, more is not always better, in fact it is usually not

the right amount is the right amount

making who has the most tubes in their system, as if it were some kind of competition for the best system, is utterly ignorant and foolish

My use is at the pre amp. Can’t say if this is right wrong of best just what I am doing. I did read a few articles that stated they felt this was the best place to start. Also said with tubes in pre and ss at amps their is less chance for down time. If a tube goes out on your amp you are dead in the water. If a tube goes out in my pre amp I can by-pass tube stage and still keep rocking. Can’t say I will remain where I am for ever but happy with my sound for now. Enjoy the music any way you can get it.

The only tubes are in my tube phono stage. It just made sense to me to go analogue into tubes the sound is incredible. 

I agree tubes everywhere. But if your starting and want to wet your feet before you commit, phono pre, dac, preamp first, amp last. IMO 

making who has the most tubes in their system, as if it were some kind of competition for the best system, is utterly ignorant and foolish

I'm one of the guilty ones. We are just having some fun and enjoying all the tubes. No one is intending any oneupmanship. We are past all that.

Listening to The Tubes - White Punks on Dope ( tubes ), counting my tubes… Just kidding. I do lust after the Brinkmann RonT tube power supply for my Bardo direct drive turntable…..

For grins have a look at the Audio Research 750 power amp, a tube salesman wet dream… but i have heard it and wouldn’t trade it fir my hybrid tube / SS amplifiers….

fun…

No one is intending any oneupmanship. We are past all that.

You are being sarcastic right? No way in hades are all of us past oneupmanship. We have egos and exaggerated self worths on this forum that can be seen from space … and space like the space around Pluto.

I don’t think one can really experience what is special about tubes if the amp is not a tube amp.  But, it is critical to audition the candidates and to choose the right amp for the particular speaker, room conditions, volume requirement, etc.  It is far easier to end up with the wrong tube amp than a wrong line stage or source component.

This is an easy question to answer:  in the preamp.  Then the amp, but first the preamp.  I think a tube preamp with a SS preamp is wonderful, but since I have both a Don Sachs' tube preamp and tube amp, during the hot summers in the Central Valley of CA I give Don's amp a rest so using my SS amps this time of year soften my cooling bills.  Once the weather moderates, the tube amp is back in the rack.    

there is the rare exception to that…. but it takes a slew of innovation to achieve it from a die hard tube zealot Richard Vandersteen; M7 high pass amplifier: Built in hanging truss HRS isolation, tube front end with liquid cooling into radiators with analog controlled pump No digital chip in the amp , analog controls for DC, low voltage, temp, pump speed, etc, single ended output, balanced input, no emitter resistors , 11 separate power supplies, cyclotron like output stages, 128 v DBS for both speaker wire and IC, the list goes on….

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/3803#&gid=1&pid=5

IF in Seattle, stop by for a listen….

My system is all tube. The Musical Paradise DAC has a chip of course, but the output goes directly to a tube output stage, then my preamp and my kt88 amp, both tube of course because that is what I build. I certainly have no desire to listen to anything else. The key is to pick a tube friendly speaker. I have a pair of Cornwall IV, which I rebuilt the crossovers on with better parts, and also Clayton Shaw’s Spatial X5. Both are wonderful speakers and very tube friendly.

If you pick speakers that require high power SS amps... then that is what you are stuck with.  Just my 2 cents

Partly due to my age, I design and build almost exclusively with tubes (some hybrids with SS in a supporting role), and in my view they are by far the easiest way to get ready good sound. But in the end it’s all in the implementation.

I just don’t have the necessary knowledge and skills to get get top notch sound out of pure SS. But there are are many very good designers out there who really have a handle on the subtleties of SOT SS design…

I have 37 tubes in my system (including 8 in the electronic crossover).  The only place where solid state amplification  is more apprpriate than tube amplification is in the plate amps of the subwoofers

@tomic601 I’m a huge Tubes fan as well and saw Fee Waybill perform years back.  His persona on stage was quite the jerk but in person after the show proved to be a lovely, warm person.  
I haven’t found tube sources I like (although I’ve  heard about a tube based strain gauge phono stage) but I have a full tube pre (Atma-sphere) which I only use the line section of, and tube input section of my amps (BHK300’s).

It doesn’t sound at all Tubey or euphonic, but with the right recording sounds very lifelike.  My reference is live music, not other Hifi systems.  

@emailists ya man a steady diet of live music is the reference..

best to you

I hadn’t really thought about the number of tubes in my equipment. The number is 34. They add up. Phono stage 8, preamp 8, DAC 6, amp 12. Also, the more tubes the better it has sounded. 

@emailists and @tomic601 

I know EXACTLY where The Tubes should be......

Oct 28 - Ludlow Garage - Cincinnati, OH

Oct 30 - The Tangier Cabaret - Akron, OH

They are on tour, several shows in CA, NY, MA and other garden spots.....

"White Punks on Dope" Indeed...

Tom - that is outstanding. As you know, Ludlow is on my bucket list…

When i am next in Ohio, we shall coordinate… Walleye fishing and tunes :-)

best

Jim

@tomic601 

Works for me.....

Not in any sound system that I own.  Completely unnecessary and undesirable for good clean sound.

Way off topic but I have a promo LP pressing of the Tubes What Do you Want From Live that sounds fantastic. - I think its a white label radio station copy. When I moved to NYC’s East Village in the late 80’s everyone was dumping their vinyl for CD, and obviously a lot of people in the music business lived in the ’hood. Many of the LP’s I bought at the time were promo copies and some included white label radio pressings, which are often the best sounding pressing of a title I have. I was an early CD adopter and when I got my first high end rig after college, I found my $100 technics table (with an AT12SA Shibata cart) trounced CD and modest DACs of the era, and bought about 2500 lps when people were selling them by the milk crate for a buck or slightly more. A friend in that neighborhood recently told me in that era he left 2000 lps on a street corner one day for people to just take.

@tomic601  - You may be disappointed in the new Ludlow Garage. It is now in the basement of the building that previously housed the Ludlow Garage. It's not the same room where The Allman Bros. recorded "Live at Ludlow Garage". But hey, it's still the same building in Clifton, so I guess that counts for something.

They're trying. They do have a lot of shows for acts that play smallish room. I've seen a few good ones there, including a real cracker of a show by The Alarm. Currently holding tickets for Son Volt and Shovels and Rope. Will probably go to The Tubes show. I've seen them a few times over the years and always enjoyed it. But don't know how a 70 year old Fee Waybill is going to pull off "White Punks on Dope".

@emailists  - I also have "What do You Want From Live", but not a promo. It is a fantastic sounding record! Love it! I saw them around the time that was recorded. Perfectly captured a band at the top of their game.....

oh man Discogs..here i come….

"But don't know how a 70 year old Fee Waybill is going to pull off "White Punks on Dope".

Maybe an update is in order? - Angry seniors on Medicare!