Simplest Linear PSU?

@OP

Being smaller, generally, SMD components are actually more "discreet":))

Both SMD and through hole devices can be "discrete".

Another Teddy Pardo. Made a noticeable difference over the stock SMPS.

Regulation done right typically reduces noise. Done wrong or badly or with defective parts, I suppose it could add noise. Even for a home built LPS, there are excellent prefabricated regulators available as add on devices. Most important is to plan ahead for voltage and current needs and to account in advance for the headroom that any regulator needs.

In my understanding, source components for obvious reasons require the most silent power supplies.

Absolutely. I go nuts getting really quiet power for moving coil RIAA phono stages. Think about the impact of even a small amount of noise on something that may be amplified 20,000X by the time it reaches the speaker. How do i get that number? In farmer’s math, my MC stage has a gain of 66dB, 2000X, my power amp about 20X, preamp about 3X, but of course the volume is mostly turned down significantly, lowering the effective gain. BTW when i say "my" they are both what i use but also designed by me - so i know them well. My daily drivers are all prototypes of some form, some from long ago.

Given the above 1/10,000th of a volt of input noise becomes two volts of output noise. Which is normal listening level! It would be all noise! A signal-to-noise ration of....... 1. :-) Puts things in perspective eh?

DACs are actually much more forgiving, since the voltage levels on a DAC are nominally much higher.  But still you are right - whatever goes into the beginning of the signal chain gets amplified.

Wow, such a great discourse here regarding Power supply. The distinction I haven't seen mentioned, but implicitly described is the amperage and voltage requirement of the component. In my understanding, source components for obvious reasons require the most silent power supplies. It is the source after all that gets amplified, so any aberration, distortion, etc. in the source, again gets amplified. My sources include PS audio Perfect Wave DAC which has SMD. Downstream, I can comment about the benefits of through hole. My PS Audio 6.2 preamp had some low hanging fruit with burson and the best modern caps in the direct wire signal path. The pre is  direct wired to my Hafler 9500 (funny how people pay $$ for connectors) which has been thoroughly reworked with all of the best modern components. The output stage all Mundorf with CRC and bypass near the fets with .01 and 100uf Mundorf. But back to the point, that amp, I believe came on to its own with a Sparkos Labs dead silent AFE power supply feeding those toshiba jfets with 24v of sweet  sweet sweet straight line dc ( > 100db of ripple rejection) .  Thats right. A discrete regulated PS for the input stage, which was imagined by Jim Strickland, but reimagined with the best modern components. Yes, Sparkos uses SMD components in their PS regulators. It has taken me some time as a builder to come to terms with SMD, but like it or not it is the modern reality. And it really works. Sparkos! I think my next move is to power the 6.2 with a Sparkos. Maybe my point is SMD in small steps. PS regulators are a big deal when you pay attention to PS noise. Sparkos has is it figured out. Peace

@clustrocasual

So many things to unpack.

Look i dont really care what you believe, but i want you to understand, and every reply proves more and more that you are not following my points.

1. I don’t like the sound of SMD components, so seek to reduce as many as possible.

No really valid. there are garbage SMDs and great ones. What you are not getting is that as a design engineer i KNOW that many are identical, and some better.

2. Therefore, SMPS are definitely out. Hence the title - LPS desired.

SMPS and SMDF have nothing, repeat nothing to do with each other. I also dont like SMPS. See my comments above, apparently missed. Easy in this mess of a thread.

3. Many LPS still have extra circuitry and pack in a ton of SMD components. If they were at least through-hole, I could upgrade to audio grade (Audionote, discreet regulators, etc).

Whatever. Confused. (me)

4. KISS concept is the goal, and I intentionally left more details about my application out to research recommendations from people. Thanks for all the recommendations.

I agree with KISS. I also agree with Albert Einstein, who wryly said "everything ought to be made as simple as possible, and no simpler"

Please, please please uncouple SMD from SMPS. I have a SMPS attached to a commercial DAC down in my LR. Actually disconnected since i replace d it. There is not one SMD component in it.

I contract design for some of the high end houses.

If i may add - most SMD components are as cheap and crappy as possible. But one can get transistors, resistors and capacitors that are either identical or better than THT. They cost more. A ***lot*** more. They are hard to get at mega Chinese fab houses. But you can, and i do. And in the end lot more for SMD is much cheaper than THT after assembly, error rates, etc.

SMD provide much better QC and better assembly quality. They are cheaper, allowing me to spend money where it actually matters, rather than where amateurs have heard it matters. Sorry, tough but true.

Lighten up and get a good power supply. That, i agree, is a brilliant idea.

I had this argument with an old engineering prof of mine, oddly. Old (very!), cranky, but still sometimes brilliant. He finally did his home work and came around.

Back to our friends and the party, and some outstanding wine and music.

@itsjustme "This means he wants his transistors to have three long legs rather than three short tabs. Period. End"

That’s quite some black and white thinking.

What I said implies a lot of things so let me clarify :

1. I don’t like the sound of SMD components, so seek to reduce as many as possible.

2. Therefore, SMPS are definitely out. Hence the title - LPS desired.

3. Many LPS still have extra circuitry and pack in a ton of SMD components. If they were at least through-hole, I could upgrade to audio grade (Audionote, discreet regulators, etc).

4. KISS concept is the goal, and I intentionally left more details about my application out to research recommendations from people. Thanks for all the recommendations.

@lewm 

Regulation, if perfect brings noise to zero.  Nothing in this world is perfect.  Most regulators generate high frequency noise which can have nasty audible effects (likely beats, but it really doesn't matter - they do). I agree that overall they are the place to start, and are essential for many dynamic loads. But filtering can help.

Since i have way too many 100s of hours into research and trial/error/success i wont go into detail, but its worth looking at.

Everyone needs to keep in mind that psycho acoustically the signature of noise/distortion is often more important than its magnitude. We LIKE large amounts of consonant distortion in some tube amps.  But we HATE tiny amounts of dissonant distortion. This is music theory 101

Hmm, no love here for SBooster?

s boosters are excellent, cost effective, very very well built and terrific performers

Regulation done right reduces noise on the supply, rather than adding noise.

I should add that the link above describes what appear to be very well thought out supplies, at a not-insane price considering what's inside them.  I pay little attention to the stand alone LPS market since i design LPSes for use within products. And when i need my own personal outboard LPS i just build it ( i have genero PCBs that i fab and can adapt to most uses).

I am a fan of small chokes to eliminate the HF noise generated by most series regulators. 

@itsjustme +1 I use Uptone JS2, choke based lps on some of most important digital components. This will explain issues with T,BR&F  and advantages of choke based,https://audiobacon.net/2021/08/06/the-worlds-best-audiophile-linear-power-supplies/3/

Transformer, Bridge Rectifier and filter caps.....

yes, that's the simplest but likely not the best.  For constant current draw stuff, multiple filter stages can be very very good, and sound remarkably right. but for anything requiring specific DC levels (like any ICs) or current surges, it has major issues and regulation is required. regulation brings its own issues and noise sources.

This is why i somewhat push back on the most  basic tenets espoused in this thread.

Building a good LPS is or can be a little more complex than implied. It helps to have an oscilloscope to analyze the performance, too. Learn about pi filters, etc.Also, you may want to regulate the V output in which case you design for a higher V output than needed to allow headroom for the regulator to operate. 

Paul Hynes

Consider doing your own.... simplest? Transformer, Bridge Rectifier and filter caps..... You’ll need to do some homework.... What component are you going to use it for? How much current will the transformer need to handle. You can choose by votage and wattage rattings and get fairly close, I would choose around 4 times or higher wattage rating to make sure that you cover for 2 channels and peak current. If you are making a pure class A component, you will need much higher.  You will need to know what dc voltage that you need. Choose a transformer that is approximately 20% lower than the DC that you’ll need. So if you needed 30v, you may choose a 24v transformer. When you add the Bridge to convert AC to DC you will get the voltage boost, next choose capacitors for each channel. I’m a firm believer that the more the merrier, others don’t always agree, quoting in rush current. i have yet to have a problem here. Do some homework, if you can mod one, you can build one.

Guys - the amazing level of confusion continues, post after post.

The OP asked about power supplies that were made with SMDs. Maybe he mistyped, maybe he has no idea what he’s typing, but he did. SMDs are surface mount devices. Note this means the same old components in a different package, - no through holes. His question was for LPSs with

"the least amount of miniaturized SMD and semiconductor nonsense?"

This means he wants his transistors to have three long legs rather than three short tabs. Period. End. Nothing more to see here, move along. The dies are the SAME, except that sometimes you can buy better transistors int he modern parts and th eolder ones have been discontinued. e.g.: 2SC389, J201.

Somehow people moved on to Switched Mode Power Supplies and then combined the two. I mean, really? Does anyone have any clue what they are typing about?

Quick answer: not apparent.

The problem is that there can be issues with both. But they need careful clarification. I took the OP at his word (letters?) and discussed that the linear power supplies he desired could be made, maybe should be, with at least some surface mount devices for cost, size and the ability to robotically assemble (meanings cost and quality). Other parts (pas transistors) likely are better off THT for heat dissipation and current capability.

If someone wants real data from someone who designs, professionally, with all this stuff I’ll jump back in but at the moment its just too painful.

We also seem to have moved to R2R DACs! The connection, except that i used them as an example of why tiny, cheap surface mount technology is essential to audiophile grade modules, is pretty tenuous.

Hmm, no love here for SBooster?

@jerryg123 , sh-t Jerry. The last thing you want to do is agree with me. That is the kiss of death.

LHY

LessLoss R2R DAC with 2 onboard FireWire 640X. 
 

Wonderful and I agree with @mijostyn why by gear you need to upgrade power supply. 
 

When researching  streamers I found Antipodes philosophy in regard to mixing smps and lps singularly interesting, came close to pulling trigger on K50. In the end went with custom build with LPS, choice was not about aversion  to their proprietary use of smps. But other than Antipodes I'm not convinced of any smps being the equal or preferable to lps. I use lps on every single component in my streaming setup, including modem and router, better than any smps I've used.

New generation switched mode power supplies are much better now, but personally I still prefer a linear power supply - ease of repair and if properly designed more headroom.

I suspect that is the general consensus here.

Charles

@itsjustme 

On the topic of SMPS (switched mode power supplies) the problem is noise.  Noise CAN be controlled, but it is difficult. 

Thank you - the first intelligent post on this thread.

That is the issue - linear power supplies vs switched mode power supplies.

The early switched mode power supplies were awful, spewing out rf and noise both into the circuitry and back into the mains. New generation switched mode power supplies are much better now, but personally I still prefer a linear power supply - ease of repair and if properly designed more headroom.

there are no serious audio-grade SMD components,

Hilarious  

"audiophile" with size, shape, lovely colour, gold plated leads, pc triple c copper leads, aged, brewed - I have a bunch of audiophile components in the spares bin that were easily outperformed by "non audiophile" components.

SMD can offer huge advantages in short signal paths, more controlled rf floating around, less leakage, more accurate solder joints ( by the way solder joints - no 2 are the same, even the shape of the solder joint can induce distortion )

But @lewm is correct here - most audiophiles have no idea and make assessments based on labels on components and audiophile jewellery. A bit of machined aluminium inside the case sends most audiophiles into raptures - completely unaware of the dodgy solder joints. 

I recall asking my tech about a stereophile class phono stage all the rage - he said "the case looks nice, but I lost count of the dodgy solder joints".

smd vs smps -- 🤣

that is hifi nerd-dom conflation at it’s nadir!

what the heck are we talking about here????? 🤔

on a slightly more serious note, i think one needs to bear in mind that some judicious component designers may choose smps for their compactness and economy, and could well build in power feed filtering within the main body of the component... doesn't solve the problem of the cheapo smps dirtying the shared ac power line other gear takes from, but the particular unit in question could well run beautifully with the smps delivering the dc at its input

Although I definitely do not agree that SMD are categorically to be avoided at all costs, nevertheless it occurred to me that for those obsessed with avoiding SMDs, I would go along with a recommendation I think made by someone else to look on Ebay for laboratory grade DC power supplies. Those made by lambda or by Pharmacia, for two examples, are of very high quality well regulated and permit adjustment of voltage and current. However they are also relatively large in size, and some have fans for cooling that will make a tiny bit of noise in your listening room. They are meant for laboratory use, for real. And most likely anything you can find these days will contain semi conductors. Heaven for bid!

Yes, and there are no serious audio-grade SMD components, so as people miniaturize or design complex circuits, audio quality will suffer with these and there is no way out. Thats my only point I was making.

SMD, not SMP = Surface Mount Devices

THT means through-hole devices

often the same devices, different leads. Which is why the criticism is misplaced, IMO. There are bad components of all types. And also good ones.

On the topic of SMPS (switched mode power supplies) the problem is noise.  Noise CAN be controlled, but it is difficult. That said notice some of the finest test gear now uses SMPSs.  I however, do not. And the ones we can afford are just nasty.

@charles1dad Eventually as a consumer it becomes subjective, like shopping for tubes or negative feedback. Many LPS that are designed for audio by well meaning people still use filtration or regulation, and to some, that can feel like the life gets kinda sucked out of their music. Ive used some popular ones talked about here and IMO they use pretty bad components (wiring, recepticals, fuses etc which can always be upgraded) that are really "thin" or "edgy" and sound unnatural to me, but some people think they are dynamic and full of bass. Etc.

Thats why for me, I want to start with a really super basic LPS and build it around my favorite sounding components. Or I guess I should build one totally from scratch but I'm not super knowledgable about transformers to my satisfaction yet.

@lewm 

Gotcha!👍

Charles

Charles, like Mijo, I’ve never had occasion to shop outboard power supplies of any type.

@clustrocasual

I appreciate your comments posted here. My Pro-Ject RS2T Box CD transport comes with a wall wart SMPS. To be candid, it sounds terrific and bettered my long term P.S. Audio PWT (On board LPS) which is very good sounding. So, Pro-Ject does achieve excellent sound quality with their standard SMPS wall wart. They do offer an upgrade LPS.

I chose a Fidelizer Nickola II Signature LPS and it did take what is very good, even further upward. So I’m convinced excellent sound is possible with either type of power supply. Design, part quality and execution the determining factors affecting final sonic results. All of my other audio components came with on board LPS.

Charles

@charles1dad The best thing you can do is upgrade as many components as you can on your SMPS to audio-grade, and you will be blown away with the results of even just a few. Which really means, how bad they are to begin with.

@mijostyn Its for a recording studio not audiophile den, so its unavoidable with certain creative tools. 

@itsjustme That is right - complex things like R2R require SMD and because of that, they can sound pretty bad even if they improve some aspects things. I compared the Mola Mola Tambaqui ($13k) over a $2k AKM-based DAC I modded with as many high end discreet components and the Mola Mola objectively couldn't portray most instruments fully - a ton of information was simply missing, and exhibited the typical SMD "sound" to me which is a false sense of bass on every sound and brittle highs that appear as dynamics but are missing the musical information. The components eat away at transparency, period. They are simply not designed for audio - they are designed to be mass produced cheaply and fulfill non-audio engineer criteria. Nothing like that belongs in audio gear, IMO. Not even a chassis.

Anyway, yes it all depends on what discreet components you choose, only a couple people are manufacturing top end ones. On the other hand, sometimes its unavoidable like you said. I love Weiss op-amps, they do have SMD but they are the best sounding option that I know of when op-amps are needed.

I'm very open minded with audio, thats how I spent years modding and arriving at this conclusion. But I will try anything once.

@jjss49 

Thank you for the additional input.

Charles

Why would anybody but a piece of equipment with a substandard power supply? Instead of pissing money away on outboard power supplies try buying equipment with decent power supplies to begin with.

@charles1dad @lewm

smps have two problems as i understand it

1) they can produce an output that has nasty digital switching noise, if the output is poorly or is not at all filtered to deliver a pure dc output

2) smps are also notorious for putting noise back into the ac line, which in turn can affect other components on the house circuit

there are industrial and medical grade smps units that address both these issues as they are engineered and built with this in mind - smps units for portable medical and lab/scientific instruments

for hifi, my understanding that ifi of the uk makes several relatively inexpensive upgrade power supplies that are still of the smps variety (not classic transformer driven linear ps’s) but with onboard filtration/noise management

i power 2 with active noise cancellation

i power x (higher version)

there is also this very pricey one which according to its marketing script has both ps technologies on board...

@lewm I think the reason many people report audible benefits from LPSs vs SMPSs is that they have upgraded from a wall wart quality (i.e., low quality) SMPS to a high quality LPS designed for audio

Yes, exactly my point and personal experience. I don’t question the existence of high quality and good sounding SMPS. It is however most listener’s experience has been with the wall wart SMPS variety. People have naturally discovered they can do much better. Lewm, I’ll ask you the same question. What are the commercially available SMPS one could purchase?

Charles

I think the reason many people report audible benefits from LPSs vs SMPSs is that they have upgraded from a wall wart quality (i.e., low quality) SMPS to a high quality LPS designed for audio. David Berning has been implementing SMPS power supplies in his state of the art amplifiers and preamplifiers for years, if not decades, and no one seems to notice. If it’s done well and well built, an SMPS can certainly hang with an LPS. And the benefit is you won’t get a hernia from lifting an SMPS-powered piece of gear.

@itsjustme

You make some insightful points regarding SMPS capability. Antipodes latest flagship music server is the Olandra and they decided on SMPS rather than LPS. They intend to compete with Taiko Extreme and Pink Faun which both have LPS developed to the nth degree.

So it appears that high quality well implemented SMPS are very viable choices. Most people switching from stock SMP with their components to LPS do legitimately experience an upgrade in performance. Listeners teport what they hear with direct comparisons. For my CD transport, I replaced the standard SMPS (Actually pretty good) with a LPS and there was a noticeable improvement in sound quality.

Those SMPS do not represent the best efforts and generally are provided due to cost consideration. Are there any SMPS upgrade options that can be purchased as alternatives that compete with good quality aftermarket LPS choices?

Charles

If I wanted simple I wouldn't have researched and picked out my Audio Research SP8 ver5 preamp with it's multiple regulated power supplys. Talk about complex, but it all part of what makes that preamp so good.

Want a great power supply on the cheap? Ebay is full of high quality used laboratory power supply's such as Power Designs, Lamda, etc. Fully adjustable, and some have voltage stability down into the microvolt range.

BillWojo

Where are your data that show “most audiophiles prefer simple circuits”? Most have no clue regarding circuit design. In certain applications, SMD have some advantages, such as reducing stray inductance and capacitance that can arise because of longer lead length and layout of through hole parts. Also, are you looking for tube rectified PSs? Because SS rectifiers can be construed to be semiconductors. Finally most commercially available LPSs are going to use semiconductors for regulating the V output, unless you want unregulated.

@clustrocasual

Obviously buy what you like, and what makes you comfortable.  But the purpose of these sites is to share info, and I'm trying to counter what i see as knee-jerk reactions to modern technology.  Some SMD IS bad.  But some can be very good. I want as many as i can impact ot understand that.

I found your reply hard to follow -- full of vague analogies (some off base) and such. I design with both and have listened extensively and find pretty much the opposite. The short, tidy connections i can achieve with SMD, combined with more up to date components, are (and its a tiny difference) superior. Some packages demand THT - for size, weight or simply historical reasons. So my boards are most often actually hybrid.

In an LPS, in particular, some components simply require size and mass (thermal mostly). But i doubt any serious design tries to use SMD for high power levels. So i’m not sure if you have some deep secret knowledge, or are just defending your position... if its the former please share, if its the latter, you might benefit from being mroe open minded and looking into the details of each design and what is appropriate. I had reservations (in some instances still do) but have worked through to find what better (most) and what’s not (long random list). discrete R2R dacs for example would be impractical on many counts without SMD. resistor tolerances, size, complexity of assembly, bad noise immunity (exposed surface area/difficulty in shielding) to name 4.

-G

@pwayland  yeah, I'm checking out Andy's PSU kit!

@itsjustme Well to be clear - simple is not always better no, but SMD packages and their industrial solder joints wreck havoc on audio information. (As well as their non-audio grade THT versions). And not amplitude measurements, but sonic information. So while you can solve some problems with more complex circuits, you have to be mindful of the materials being used.

My theory of why most audiophiles prefer simple circuits, whether they know it or not, actually comes down to the physical quality of the components available in discreet, THT layouts, especially when you are shopping ones designed for audio. In short, a circuit is like the schematic for a deep space telescope - the angles of the mirrors, magnifications, and other math has to be right to transport the light from one end to the other and be mechanically stable, but the real quality of the information retrieved will be determined by the physical materials of the mirrors and glass. Just ask Leica. Once I understood that sound and light work the same way, in this regard, it totally opened my mind to building better audio systems. Just my experience!