SimAudio Moon North Collection

I'm certainly interested in the new moon north series. Jay at Jay audio lab seemed to love them at munich. Has anybody heard them yet. I would be looking at the 70 p series 

I thought they have not been released yet. The LA dealer that I bought some speakers from will call my in Oct when they come into the shop.

There will be a few older models in the used market soon.

I have an 860A V2....I've been very happy.  The North Collection will hopefullly resulted in some hitting the market for me to grab it and run them in mono mode!

Mono by Simaudio is making some very nice kit. 

@overthemoon  Shelleys in Woodland Hills CA, my local dealer is trying to sell their demo 860A V2. They have a 861 coming in.

http://www.shelleysstereo.com/

As good as the 860 a v2 is the North collection is way better, with the new MDCA circuitry It's a whole new ball game on a whole different level, I'm going to be upgrading my w-8 to the 861 I'm sure I'll be shocked at how much better it will be.

@magnuman I just listened to the 791 in my house versus my 390...it was a significant change and I'm going to get the 791.

And given the sound I won't be looking to move the 860A v2 to monoblocks.  The sound stage, depth, texture and dynamics were a significantly upgraded with the upgrade of the source.

I heard moon north 791/761 combo in two different occasions, once at the Toronto audio show last Oct and recently at a local shop. At the show, the moon set was paired with B&W 802 and Joseph Audio perspective2s at the shop. I found them very appealing visually. Real highend look, but soundwise, one could do better with that much of money, imo

What did you find lacking and relative to what gear (to provide some context).

In the show setting, I am familiar with sound of B&W. I think they sound best with Classe electronics. There’s more fleshed out mids with aliveness. With the moon combo, they sounded more flat and less vivid. I got a similar experience when listening to perspectives with the moon setup. I listened to Perspective2s with full McIntosh tubes electronics and EAR V12/Chord Dave in different settings at the same store. I liked V12/Dave the most then followed by McIntosh then Moon. The reason for this is that, again the Moon setup took away these magical tones n timber that I normally hear from Perspective2s. The store owner loved sound of new Moon with the perspectives. When he was saying all the good things about them, I was thinking well with that money I would buy something else. I just read a professional review on this moon combo and too me, the review sounded like defecto high praises for expensive new hifi products and then off they go to the next reviewers. This is just me, but I think Moon has pretty noticeable house sound that if you happen to like it then you’d love these new offerings from Simaudio. I don’t so maybe that’s why.

Thanks. I was surprised to see B&W and Moon paired together. Paradigm Persona and Moon is another combination that may not work the best for me.

I am going to compare a CODA SYSTEM 150 with the Moon 761 or 861 to see what matches best with my Yamaha NS5000.

I own the older 760A Amp and recently reviewed the newer 761 amp from the North Collection for about a month. The 761 is authoritative - everything sounds more precise, attack is amazingly quick, everything starts and stops on time without sloppiness. But, I can say the same thing about the older 760A or many other well built solid-state class ab amplifiers though. Throughout the year, I switch between the 760A and an Octave RE320 w/SSB.  There's nothing in the newer 761 that I don't get from the older 760A. The 761 won't deliver that smooth tube purity.

So aside from the increase in price, I'm not sure why Moon designed an amp that has no special attributes over predecessors.  Purely a financial decision I assume.

Looking at their product manual and web content, I'm not sure their engineering heart was in this North Collection. The launch of HiFi Rose makes the tiny mobile screen on their Preamps look ridiculous. 

I think the company may be on the edge of bankruptcy or a serious leadership crisis. Just my 2 cents.

yyzsantabarbara Did you get a chance to compare CODA to the new Moon North?

@audphile1 Four weeks ago I drive from LAX airport to a HiFi store that had my speakers and the Moon North. Unfortunately, that arduous drive was not successful because the dealer closed early for some unstated reason.

This Thursday I make the reverse commute to LAX. I am trying to figure out how I can leave early to hit the store. The timing may not work out.

BTW - my early issues with my Livingroom system which uses the CODA have been resolved exactly as I wanted after I switched the Schitt Yggi+ LIM DAC for the Yggi+ OG DAC. I really have no issues with both my systems today. My desire to go and listen to the Moon is just for curiosity. I bought some speakers from this dealer so I do not think they would mind.

Cool. Good to hear you found synergy. Good schiit. 
Hope to hear your thoughts on Moon North!

What a timely thread! I’ve been a fan of the Simaudio Moon amps for a while traversing from the 330a, 760a, and 860a-v2; I’ve been demoing at home the 641 and 681 components and have been extremely pleased with the design direction they have taken, and results achieved, with the new North series. The 641 stereo integrated amplifier is a marvelous amp. I can’t praise it enough. I have had a coda csib, which is another stellar overachiever. IMHO, I believe the 641 is next level, pretty much across the board. The 641 has an uncanny ability to generate a “detached from electronics” kind of tone; music springs forth in a buoyant and round manner, full of color and vitality. I honestly don’t know how they engineered such an organic and beautiful rendering of sound, as I’m hearing with this amp. The top end is truly exquisite at this price point and from my experience as good as any amp I’ve ever heard in my home systems. I can’t say the same thing about the 860av2, however, as I felt that amp was too stark, too hard-edged, too cool. There was something about it I was not able to get to sound right to me, despite cable swaps, source swaps etc. The new north amp signature is different, it definitely possesses the core signature of the later generation of moon amps- lucidity, clarity, focus, accuracy, speed, low noise, etc but it does so in a more engaging manner and fluidity-ness.
I strongly encourage listening to the 641 or 761 when you can.

I just heard the 761 amp with the 700 series streaming DAC preamp. It was playing on the Parasound Persona 9H. When I had previously heard the 860 v1 it was on the Parasound Persona 5F.

I spent over an hour listening to various tracks and I came away thinking that it was smoother and more detailed than the 860A v1. The Persona’s still had a bit of an edge to it, but it was much less with the 761. The BE drivers on the Persona have a bit of edge to them compared to my NS5000.

There was great detail without much irritation. The sound was projected out more than with other systems I have heard. I am not sure if that is because of the Persona or the amp. The slight irritation I got was from the Persona or the smallish room.

I use a CODA #16 with my Yamaha NS5000 speakers. The NS5000 has some 6th degree of separation lineage with the Persona lineup. I think the NS5000 have better drivers than the Persona. I think the 761 (or 861) would great on the NS5000 and I will likely replace my Sanders Magtech with one of the North Collection amps.

I can rotate the CODA #16 and the Sim amps around with the Magnepan LRS+ and the Yamaha NS5000 speakers. The Sanders is not great with the NS5000. I will keep the CODA #16 which is great with both speakers and slightly different sounding from the Sim. Compared to the #16 the 761 sounded a little cleaner on top and maybe more detailed. Ernie Isley’s guitar solo on Summer Breeze sounded better on the 761, more details which made it sound like I was there. The slight Class A warmth of the #16 is something that I also love. The Sim does not have much of that.

My only uncertainty was whether the 761 could drive the bass of the NS5000 as well as the CODA. The 9H has powered subs so I was not really taxing the 761 during the listen.

I went and heard the Luxman 10x amp for a short period at a dealer today. It was an improvement on the Luxman m900u for my ears. I liked the 900 a lot but thought it was too warm. The 10x is not as warm and a touch warmer than the SimAudio 761 that I heard last week. I loved both amps. Now I have a dilemma. 

I also heard a $100k CH amp that sounded really good. I was thinking this amp was the winner until I heard the price. I am not one to normally go for the most expensive gear, but this CH amp sounded great.

@yyzsantabarbara I’m amazed you’re able to hear the differences you describe between all these amplifiers when evaluating them at different times and in a context of different systems. 

The systems are different, but the sonic signature of an amp is rather easy to hear in a good system.

Are you talking about the Luxman m900u and the 10x? That was rather easy to hear with respect of the warmth of the amps. The speakers were Harbeth and Monitor Audio. Both were on the slightly warm side and not my preferred choices, but I adjusted to that. I am also going on memory of the m900u which I heard a few years ago with Harbeth. I almost bought the m900u. I did not because I did not think I could live with such as warm amp long-term.

If you are talking about the SimAudio 761 and the Luxman 10x that is a harder call since the Sim was playing on the brighter Paradigm Persona 9H which has powered bass drivers and really incredible DSP tuned base. I found the Luxman 10x warmer of the 2 and maybe a touch less detailed. However, the Persona is a detail monster and a bit bright; the Monitor Audio seemed a bit less detailed and warmer.

Given these system variables I am evaluating the Luxman and the Sim. My goal is to get a forever amp for my 2 systems. I already have the CODA #16 and evaluating other amps that are as good but sonically different. The Sim 761 is rather different from the #16. The Luxman is 10x not that much different.

I posted some more details on the Clarisys speakers that I heard at the shop that had the CH amp and the Luxman 10x. The Clarisys is a ribbon-based speaker that has some sonic resemblance to the RAAL 1995 Immanis headphone. I know the RAAL sound extremely well. So, the Clarisys demo gave me a good basis to compare with my #16 with the CH. I also own Magnepan LRS+ which the Clarisys also have some similarity too.

I have setup the RAAL headphones with my CODA #16 amp but that is not really relevant. The fact that they sounded sonically similar (maybe because of being ribbons) was the baseline. Not talking soundstage or imaging here.

I also get fatigued easy, which I found useful in evaluating gear. Funny thing is the worst demo (and most fatiguing) was with the Yamaha NS5000, the speaker I ended up buying and loving (I bought from another dealer).

On a side note, I am visiting my parents in Whitby, ON, Canada. There are 2 amazing hi-end stores cycling distance (10 min) on either side of town. I was able to sneak some audio listening sessions while visiting. I will be buying an amp from one of these Canadians if I get the Sim or Lux (almost certainly will).

I own Yamaha NS5000s and drive them with the Bel Canto Black EX.   Great combo. 

@yyzsantabarbara got it.

I’m evaluating two amps in my system and changing power cords on the amp changes the sonic signature, then changing a USB cable feeding the DAC  changes how the system sounds once again. I can only accurately assess the difference between the two amps if all other variables are unchanged.  

Amplifiers have nearly as much impact on the sound of your system as changing speakers. It’s impossible to form any sort of reliable opinion based on all the countless variables in different systems at different times. I’m not even introducing personal preferences to the equation. If you can bring your amp over to the dealer for the comparison it would be a better approach before you drop the dough on the new amp. Just a thought. 

@audphile1 Nice, what USB's have you been using??

@tkrtrb125 stock Aurender, AudioQuest Diamond, Audience StudioOne. 

@audphile1 

I live in California and the dealer is in Canada. I cannot bring anything to the shop in Canada and when I go home there is zero chance of doing any demos. I live in Los Angeles area, with great audio shops but I will be too busy with 2 full-time jobs and my kid.

I have done comparisons at home in the past 5 years with more than 10 amps. I bought these units and sold them after not making the grade. The only one to stay is the CODA #16 (and most costly).

My amp comparisons today are with the CODA #16 as the baseline amp and the Yamaha NS5000 as the baseline speaker. I heard better amps during my recent demos in Canada but not a better speaker. I also have the RAAL 1995 Immanis headphone as another uber baseline comparison. Most speakers do not sound as good as that phone.

I have Coda CSiB and it’s a killer integrated. I’ll bet your Coda 16 is super competitive. It’ll take a lot to beat it. 

Luxman and Moon both make excellent gear. In my listening I perceived the Luxman a bit warmer when listening through Wilson Yvette’s. 
 

Enjoy our journey. 

@yyzsantabarbara did you end up with Moon?

I have/love a humble 240i integrated and drool over their separates. I have my own choices for DAC, streamer, and phono stage though, so I don't see the new North 791/891 as a great value if I'm just going to bypass everything but the preamp.

@hoodust I heard the 761 | 791 | Paradigm Persona 9H. It was very good, especially in the bottom end where the 761 was not really involved in. I had some issues with the top end (a bit of fatigue), and I also thought the 791 may not be as good as the Yggi+ OG DAC that I own, and think is incredible (at any price).

The 761 maybe the reason that the details I was hearing was amongst the best I ever heard. Like a Benchmark AHB2 but with a much calmer tone.

I have a fiber optic streamer | Yggi+ OG DAC | Holo Serene preamp. I think the combination of these 3 are better than the 791 that I heard. I would really need to do a lot more listening side-by-side, but from what I heard and my knowledge of the best way to stream, I take my setup over the 761,

However, the ease of use of a sometimes-complicated feature (streaming) is great with the single unit 791. I would recommend the 791 over my setup for ease of use. With further listening tests I bet could confidently say my stack sounds better (and is cheaper).

I am hoping to get a job next week. My reward for doing this extra job will be to buy either the Luxman M10x amp or the SimAudio 761 amp in Aug 2025.

I was so impressed with the 641/681 demo that I ordered the 791/761. I’ve had a few moon amps before, the 860av2, 760a, 330a. Loving the north combo. They really nailed this recipe! I’ll share some more thoughts as the gear develops more. 

I own the Moon North 861 and 891 combination, and I am amazed at the sound, which is very three dimensional, high resolution, dynamic, fluid, airy high end without being etched or analytical, and with amazing bass.  This is relative to my previous Moon 700iV2 and 780dV2, both of which I liked very much.  I am using the same Moon 810LP phono pre-amp, GoldenEar Triton Reference speakers, AudioQuest Thunderbird speaker cables and interconnects, AudioQuest Hurricane power cables and Niagara 5000, and Rega Planar 10 (Apheta 3 cartridge).  I cannot imagine a better sound, even though there is more break-in to go on the North and the 810LP.  The 891 also has an excellent user interface and remote and works perfectly with Roon, and the 861 links easily through Moon Link with the 891.  Highly recommended and can listen fatigue free for hours on end.  The only limitation with this system is the recording itself.  This is a new technology from Moon and what they have done is a success.

ackerdo,

I don't know what you been listening to but the 761 is far superior to the 760A, I just upgraded to the 861 from my SIM audio w8, the 861 is so far better it's not even funny, this is on a whole different level now, I have no doubt that this amplifier at $22,000 will beat amplifiers in the 40 to $60,000 range from other companies, that MDCA circuitry is a game changer.

Simaudio Moon 891 Streaming Preamplifier (soundstageultra.com)

I am not sure what that review is telling me. It is very detailed and makes the premium 8 Series Moon North product sound like a value proposition relative to the older more expensive T&A comparison gear and roughly a draw on sound quality. I don’t think that is the intended positioning of this Moon product which is supposed to be at the leading edge and probably sounds best with its partner Moon 861 amp. 

The T+A top end line and the North Collection do not sound similar at all. At the opposite ends of the sonic spectrum for me. I prefer the North Collection over the T+A.

That is interesting. I have not heard the T + A but my Moon North 891/861 combination sounds utterly amazing. I cannot imagine a better sound. It even makes lesser quality recordings sound extremely engaging.  It allows the subtle vibrations of sound to be easily heard which makes the music lifelike, along with transparency and excellent dynamics aided by a dead quiet background.

More completely, the reviewer’s reference system included Classe Audio Delta Monoblocs, Audio Research Reference 6SE, and a T + A MP 3100 HP DAC, and only reviewed the Moon North 891. A lot of good details on the comparison but wish the review included the 861. My dealer says the synergy of the North 891/861 combination produces an amazing result. My experience would agree with that.