The Treasures are still stunning. My fellow audiophile friend was over Monday for a four-hour listening session and was blown away. He thought that the soundstage and musicality was like never before, ranking the sound among the best he had ever heard (we go to many audiophile demonstrations and shows here in SoCal). Of course it is not just the tubes, but they made a substantial positive difference. I couldn't be more proud and pleased. |
How would Treasures KT88 compare to Black Plated Tung Sols 6550?
THX |
Just recieved two pairs of CV181-Z 'A' Tubes from Grant Fidelity. They came in nice boxes, way over packed, and quick. I then tested them on my own Amplitrex 1000 tube tester, and, folks, these are the most closely matched tubes I have ever bought. My listening room is in the process of being completed, so I have no listening results for you, but I am excited. When completed, I will listen to my TS Round Plate 6SN7's first, then install the treasures. Hope to get back to you within a month. Cousin Billy. |
Cousin,
Please do keep us posted, very interested in these babies. I love the KT-88's!! |
i bought a quad of kt88 from singapore for the price of USD216 from a season tube dealer which supplies a number of hifi stores in Singapore. I bought a quad of 6ca7 too for USD195.
they sound good. I have an amplitrex at1000 tester which i tested each of tubes. For the price their matching seems to be okay. they gm seems to be around
14ma/V with each to be within 0.357% of the mean average
For power tubes they easily pass microphonics and tested on the tester with headphone output. Gas test seem fine
For current they are about 0.5% of the mean average too. They are around 140ma on our tester
Strangely the KT88 seem to test very much better on matching than the 6ca7.
Well for the price if you would like better matching as advertise by some sellers you can get almost 2-3 quads for the price they are selling and match them from there. As the quads are rather okay in matching getting 3 quads should get you 0.1% easily for both gm and current for a quad
FOr the price these are great tubes. I got them from Ahfartaudio he regularly posts ads on echoloft. |
I just got a pair of Treasure 2A3's that I put in over the weekend. They may not have broken in yet but I find them a little more aggressive than the NOS RCA's I have been using. Better extention on the top and bottom and more of a forward presentation. Good complement to the more laid back RCA's. |
I finally had a good month in my work and made enough extra income to finally buy a matched quad of the Shuguang KT88-Z Treasure Series. Only two hours in my VAC amps so I will jump back onto this thread after sufficient break-in and/or if I experience an epiphany. So far, I can hear some potential but similar break-in to previous Shuguang Kt88-98 and KT88SC models. Stay tuned... |
You guys need to update us on the tubes you are burning in.
Is the CV181Z as good as the TS RP?????? |
OK, I've been meaning to get to this, thnaks for the prod. NOTICE: I used the old blue glass tubes, without the black coating inside. These were early production / prototypes, which are no longer available, but are supposed ot be very similar to the final (presumably better) black coated treasures. Using these in a pair of AtmaSphere MA1s, I found the Treasure CV181Zs to be on par with any of the old tubes I have used. I would not say better or worse, and I ended up using a combination of tubes to get the best sound. The Treasures have a nice even response, a lot of resolution, and an airiness. When I loaded up my MA1s w/ 4pair of theTreasures, though, it was too bright. It did take a while for me to figure it out, but adding in some Sylvnia WGT and RCA smoked glass resulted in a nicer sound.
The other thing that might surprise you about these tubes is their size. They use the same size bottle usually found on KT88s, and are quite impressive looking when you pull them out of the box. Make sure they will fit before you buy them. I stocked up on the blue glass ones, because I think beeing able to see the anode plates and the filament glow is an important part of owning tube gear, and I like the look of the blue glass. The opaque black tubes look cool in their own way, but I like to see inside. |
Honest,
Thanks for your feedback. The TS RP to me is the best 6sn7. Have you done an A/B with them and the Treasure? |
No, I have not tried any TS RPs. I've been intimidated by the cost, and the uncertainty of whether you're getting a real NOS tube or an almost dead old tube. There are certainly reputable sellers with good test equipment, but I have never gotten up the nerve to spend that much on tubes. I remember seeing some going for a lot less than the $300+, but I think they were used. |
The Shuguang Treasure CV181Z is relatively new on the market and while the literature and reports say the quality is there, they are rather pricey. Newer Russian and Chinese 6SN7s can have a shorter lifespan than tubes from the 50's and 60's. Does anyone have information on real or projected lifespan for the ST CV181Z? TIA |
The Treasure tubes lifespan:
- large power tubes - 3,000-5,000 hours under normal use
- preamp tubes - 5,000-8,000 hours under normal use
If the tubes were tested properly when sold, a good quality pair should last to its full lifespan.
Grant Fidelity is the first international distributor selling Shuguang Treasure tubes since Jan 2009. Out of the hundreds we have sold, the good quality ones (A grade) never have any one fail to now except occasional shipping related damage, which is replaced right away. No A grade tube fail yet during consumer's use. We have only sold B grade for 6 months - hard to tell how long B grade is going to last but price is largely discounted for anticipated shorter life due to inferior test results.
Sample tube test results are available at dedicated Treasure tube website: www.shuguangtreasure.com. |
Thank you for the follow-up! |
Bought the CV181Z A brand and one tube was making a wind storm in my speaker. Vey disaponting to say the least. Shipping them back @ my cost to Canada was a PITA. To much $$$ to ship back out of my pocket because someone could not test/hear the wind storm before shipping.
So here I am waiting to hear from GF to see if they got the tubes back 7days+ or lost in shipping. I guess I will Email them......... |
I purchased 8 KT88's and 4 CV181Z's, all Shuguang Black Treasure grade A tubes, from Grant Fidelity about two weeks ago for my Cary 120S amp. The CV181Z's replaced the EH 6SN7 driver and input tubes. The KT88's replaced EH output tubes. I drive the 120S with a Cary SLP 03 with stock EH tubes (am awaiting TJ Full Music 12AU7's to replace the EH stock tubes). The speakers are Harbeth Compact 7 ES3's. The sound from the stock EH tubes was very nice, no complaints but as one who is always looking for a little more, I ran across a few reviews of the Treasure series tubes and decided to give them a try. I contacted Rachel at Grant Fidelity (wonderfull people to deal with) and had the above mentioned tubes about a week later. My initial impressions were "Wow, they sound pretty darn good right out of the box". They have about 95 hours on them now and continue to improve. I am at a loss for words trying to explain how much of an improvement they have made. The little Cary sounds like one of there SET amps but with a very powerfull bottom end. The music seems to flow out of a solid black background with a naturalness that has to be heard to be believed. I am learning to live wih goose-bumps all over again. I am usually a fairly skeptical person but I believe I have stumbled upon something very special. If anything changes (good or bad) I will post further thoughts. Dave |
The CV181-Z is not disappointing me in the least now that it they are fully broken in. The have replaced my TS RB 6sN7 as my new reference tube.
I need a quad for future use they are that good. |
I have had the kt88s in my ayon spirit for a couple of months now. I aggree with Dave from Thehub. Outstanding tubes. And that is coming from Genelex Gold Lions, another excellent tube. I also have a quad of the new Genelex Gold Lion 12AU7s. They were great right ot of the box, but a little hot on top. After a few hundred hours I just couldn't be happier with the sound I am getting from this combination. Very enjoyable. |
I'm listening to a matched quad of Shuguang Treasure KT66 in Quad II Jubilee monoblocks. Right out of the box they are bold, beautiful, dimensioned, toneful and quiet. The improvement ramp on burn-in is quite steep: they were a little creamy for the first 40 minutes but by the end of the second hour they asserted their jump factor in high-definition transients. The Jubilee amps have only sounded this good with NOS Genelex KT66 in the past. Recommended.
Phil |
I'm using a Grant Fidelity 3400 300B integrated with Shuguang Black Treasure 300B's in a secondary system driving a pair of Cain & Cain Abby's. Why is this not my primary system? Well, I'd need more gusto to drive CLS iiz's, but make no mistake if you're driving speakers that are 96dB effecient that combo would serve a normal person extremely well. GREAT TUBES those black magic Shuguangs are! |
Will the cv181zs fit in an Atma-sphere MP3 preamp with the cover on? Anyone try? |
I am reclining in my listening room thoroughly enjoying The Rite of Spring due in no small measure to the Psvane 12AU7 Reference Vacuum tubes. I just recently purchased these new production tubes manufactured under tight tolerances in the Shuguang tube facility in China. The Psvanes replaced gold pin EH 12AU7s. The EHs were good sounding tubes in my heavily modified cj tube line stage. The Psvane's bring a whole new "sophistication" to all aspects of sound. Most notable is a complete lack of "glassiness" in the upper midrange and treble, a smoothness to the musical texture without any loss in detail. The soundstage is open and natural. Bass is powerful and tight. These tubes are very quiet, a characteristic missing in my trials with NOS Mullards. Yes, they were warm and "musical" but the several pairs I used were always noisy...losing their vacuum? |
OK _ What the heck is a PSVane and wheere do we get them? All of us tube addicts are now on high alert there's anwe high-end tube out there we haven't tried. |
Has anyone tried the Ming Da onion-shaped 6sn7? I've not seen much information about them, but they are supposed to use materials normally used in 300B tubes, and look really cool. But they are a bit pricey, I think they are $80 each, I think they are made in the Shuguang factory. |
What the heck is a PSVane and wheere do we get them?
Shuguangs's reference line of small signal tubes. Grant Fidelity carries them too. |
The height of my CV181 is 3.70" from the deck of my MA1 to the top of the bottle. The tube socket is sunk flush with the deck. I do have the original blue glass style, not the production black-coated clear, but I don' t know if the glass is any differetn size. It looks like a KT88 bottle. |
Thank you, I:, getting the ruler.... |
OK, I guess I'm a tube addict. I bought a pair of the Ming Da 6SN7 onion-shaped tubes. I have been using them in my AtmaSphere MA1s for a couple weeks now, and I think they may be outstanding. They replaced a pair of blue glass (early prototypes before the final black glass version) Treasure tubes. They are used in a mix of Sylvania/Phillips WGTAs, RCA black glass, and TungSol 50's era tubes. I want to revisit plugging in some of the other types, but I am getting the most natural detailed yet non-aggressive sound I've ever gotten. |
Second the comments about GrantFidelity folks (especially Rachel) being great people to work with. I received first class treatment. |
Hi
I've been looking for someone who trid both the Old (NOS)Mullard ECC32(CV181) to the new CV181-Z. Couldn't find anyone. So I'm going to do it myself. I have some NOS ECC32 in a Cary SLI-80. I just got some Shuguang CV181-Z's grade A there best, in the mail today. I have them playing right now. I'm going to give them about ten hours before I listen. That the hard part. If anyone interested I can update with my opinion. |
Bigredplane, from my experience and many others, BT CV181-Z takes ~300 hours to break in. Patience will be rewarded :-) |
If I get a pair of CV181-Z, while breaking them in on my preamp, do I have to: 1) be playing music into the pre?; 2) have my amps powered on? Would hate to use up tubes in my amp just to break in these on my pre if not necessary. |
If runs in class A, you just need to power on and don't need to play a signal through it. On my MW Transporter, I use a cheapo rectifier tube and just leave it on. |
I have the same question regarding the BT KT-88's... I have an Ayon Triton II(with shuguang BT's) arriving in a couple weeks and am curious if these will take the standard 300 hour break in as well. I'm asumming they would have the same basic metals and components and will take the same as the CV181's to settle in...but getting confirmation would help my break in plans. |
Jriggy, I have the Ayon Spirit 2 and yesterday received the BT KT88s, put them in and immediately noticed more detail, resolution and authority than what was present with the Gold Lion Reissues which I enjoyed. From my vantage point after you go through the brief amp break-in that you won't have to wait 300 hours to enjoy the music. |
Well it's been 24hrs on my Shuguang CV181-Z's grade A's I'm comparing them to my NOS Mullard ECC32 CV181. My frist thoughts are the Shuguang CV181-Z's have a wider soundstage by about 2 feet. I'm not noticing any deeper soundstage yet. This my be because they are better matched. Nobody has 1000's of the Mullard ECC32 to pick from. They are a littler clearer sounding but could sand to open up yet, but it's early only 24hrs in the books. The bass my be a little tighter on the Shuguang CV181-Z's. The top end on the CV181-Z is a little edgey or bright. Cymbals don't sound brassy yet like they do on the Mullards they sound tinny. I hope this goes away with time. The hole tube top to bottom just sounds tight. They are showing good potential, but the Mullards are the better sounding tube at this piont. But it my take up to 300hrs to get the Shuguang CV181-Z's broken-in. My Mullards have about 150hrs on them. My test amp is a Cary SLI-80 Here something else I noticed the power supply on the amp is running cooler with the Shuguang even though the C181-Z are rated to draw only 50ma less then the Mullards just something think about.
Scott |
What is BT? Is it a new variant of hte Treasure, or the same black glass treasure as usual? |
Well after 100 plus hours on the New CV181-z. I think they went to soft for me. They sound a little dark to my ears compared NOS Mullards ECC32 The new CV181-Z are good but to me not as good as the NOS Mullards but this is just in my system. It needed a little brighting up. In a set-up that doesn't need that the new Shuguang Treasure CV181Z my be the better tube. The soundstage turned out to the same, side to side and front to back. Both big compared to any other 6SN7 I've tried. |
I have read that those tubes need 300+ hours to break-in, I'd give them more time and see where they stand against the Mullards. |
I agree with Wig, this tube will get better with further breakin hours, be patient. |
Honest 1 - BT was my abbreviation for the black treasure tubes
as you described |
I just retubed my Stingray II with eight Psvane EL84s. I like them. Initially, they glared a bit; then they were a tad thick in the lows. But now, after around 60-80 hours, they've become nicely balanced and open with a warm, full midrange. While I expect them to improve further, they're notably better already than the stock Russian tubes, which were not bad themselves. |
Well I can keep them running but I have my doubts. I have been using tube amps for going onto 25 years now. I have never seen a new tube change much at all after 125 hours. But we will see what happens.
Scott |
"Well after 100 plus hours on the New CV181-z. I think they went to soft for me.
With respect and admiration for all those suggesting patience, the tube will not double back after it softens from break-in. |
Well after 100 plus hours on the New CV181-z. I think they went to soft for me. They sound a little dark to my ears compared NOS Mullards ECC32 The new CV181-Z are good but to me not as good as the NOS Mullards but this is just in my system. My experience too ... yes they are good tubes, I'd put them sonically on par with a Sylvania GTB, which, at their retail or discounted eBay price, stretches the value equation. I really was hoping for a modern 6SN7 compatible tube that could give me what I hear from a late-fourties early-fifties era Ken-Rad, Sylvania, RCA, or Raytheon VT-231 or GT. Those have magic, the Shuguang CV181-Z not so much. Still I'm glad to see a tube manufacturer pay attention to sonics and I hope Shuguang or New Sensor or someone else redoubles effort for the 6SN7 grail. |
I've heard a few people mention that the BT CV181's swing wildly in character somewhere around 100 or so through 200 or 250 hours... Can't remember the exact spance of hours but definitely dips in character for a while. |
Well I be gone for the weekend. So I won't report again untill Monday or Tuesday. The one thing I don't like is the oversize pins. Way to hard to get it in and out. I don't think it's necessary. Feels like I'm close to breaking something getting them out. My sockets are tight in my Cary Audio SLI-80 |
>>01-23-11: Pubul57
What the heck is a PSVane and where do we get them?
Shuguangs's reference line of small signal tubes. Grant Fidelity carries them too<<
I just picked up a pair of 12AX7 from an alternate supplier; will fire them up next week and give a listen. |
Look forward to hearing you thoughts on them. Still using the old Ei which are suppose to be pretty good, would be nice to try something new. |
I tried the 12ax7 in my Mac C2300 when I had it. I thought the tube sounded very good. I actually liked it more than Tele ribbed and '50s RCA long blackplates (my favorite there). |
