Tom,
I agree.
Otherwise LOL 😂😂😂
I agree.
Otherwise LOL 😂😂😂
Shahinian Obelisk vs VandersteenTreo
HI fellow ’goners.
I own the Shahinians, thinking of upgrading to the Treos. The Obelisks sound a little smallish for the room... And the room is not square, it's a big living area of a house, with access to the second floor's roof.
Will this be an upgrade or just a sideward move?
Room approx 60m2, driven by Musical Fidelity A5.5, 250wpc at 8Ohm (thinking of replacing this one too).
Mostly jazz and acoustic music, less frequently - classical and pop.
Thanks!
I own the Shahinians, thinking of upgrading to the Treos. The Obelisks sound a little smallish for the room... And the room is not square, it's a big living area of a house, with access to the second floor's roof.
Will this be an upgrade or just a sideward move?
Room approx 60m2, driven by Musical Fidelity A5.5, 250wpc at 8Ohm (thinking of replacing this one too).
Mostly jazz and acoustic music, less frequently - classical and pop.
Thanks!
189 responses Add your response
dark they aint.... etched super hifi pained in an hour no...... as for records it might be that tracking the countless hundreds of improvements and storing all that including drivers matched to within .1 db would kill the frugal dutchman and I suspect require a Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse... remember he sold a quarter million model 2.... also and i suspect some of his matching techniques require nulling drivers which IF ya think about it goes far beyond recording a few values.... i need to chat w him tommorow anyway as the amps are in breakin...wait till i tell him he can eliminate the midrange....wish me luck |
Hmm, I supposed it depends upon what you were listening to beforehand. Vandie's aren't bright (as in, lots of treble or beaming uppers). Also being phase and time aligned, they give a more natural (in my opinion) sound. The closest I can find to them are planars and electrostatic speakers. Again, to my ears. Bob |
Bob, It was generous, yes, but... overall not a pleasant type to deal with, the seller that is. I am as "paranoid" as you are, believe me :-) They actually don't have a database even of years of manufacture. I told Richard the serial number, he couldn't tell me year of manufacture... On the sidenote, strangely enough, the speakers are playing quite nicely with this midrange missing. Go figure. A sideways question to you Vandy owners: how would you describe the sound of Vandies? "Dark" is what comes to my mind... |
@ja_zz I don't know what 'off center' means, in this case, but Do you think it was damaged in the shipping? It was generous for the seller to accept the speakers back. He sounds like a 'Stand Up' guy. For me, I would send it to Mr. V. as his drivers are made to his specifications and I would doubt anyone else knows what he knows. (I also wonder if he needs the driver from the other speaker in order to get them balanced)?-Ask Johnny. A second reason to send it back to California is that Vandersteen constantly upgrades their speakers and I am sure they would need to see your driver in its' pristine state in order to affect the proper repair. If you have it repaired locally, it may get altered so that should you still need to send it back, they might have a problem putting it back to original spec. as they don't keep records of their upgrades.(Though I wonder why they don't). Of course, I am being a bit paranoid, but I want to save you from anymore trouble. A third reason is that should you want to sell them, you would have all the documentation showing they were put back to original by the manufacturer. Lastly: When In Doubt, Contact Johnny R! Bob |
Well, it's the driver. Took it out completely, checked it, it's off center. The seller suggested to take the speakers back, contemplated his offer, decided I want to keep them. So next week the driver is going to California. CJ pre is burning in with a new Tesla tube. Will probably look for a Golden Lion Genalex, as they suggested on a CJ owners forum. The Vandies have a somewhat dark sound in my setup Ann's room, so the Golden Lion will probably make it brighter, closer to neutral. |
Bob, Like I said I will follow Stingreen's advice and carefully inspect everything. I have no intention of sending the driver overseas and learning that it is in perfect working condition :-) JohnnyR suggested a very simple, but very effective way of checking driver's performance: taking it out and connecting it directly to speaker cable at very very low volume so as not to damage it. This method will demonstrate the defect (IF it is defective) instantly. All effective things are oh so simple :-) And kudos to JohnnyR for taking his time to help. It was a pleasure. |
@ja_zz I haven’t listened to any open baffle speakers, yet. Seems like they should be on my ’to do’ list, along with MBL. I am currently into non-crossover designs, namely Zu. They are quite impressive for the money. Not up to Vandersteen, but pretty close. Also, Stringreen’s comment is a good one. Maybe when you get to sending out the driver, see if there is anything amiss in the wiring. Perhaps something got bumped out of place when they were shipped. @tomic601 , and Nycjlee, I have great expectations for the Ayre( and the McCormack). I will post when I get things up and running. The Sound Anchor stands arrived and I have to undo some old shelving, patch and repaint the areas before I set them up, so it will be a little while... It’s never easy, is it? Bob |
Tom, They also sound incredibly natural. But. The room thing is really essential. I do have two extra amps (a Stingray II (a keeper) and an ARC CA50 and 3 extra pairs of speakers (all on sale). So I guess you can say I do have a spare system. For now ;-) But in my second location - I have to confess - I am using a single Bluetooth speaker (a Marshall Woburn, replica of Marshall guitar amps). No hifi, but easy to use and good for easy listening and movies. And HUGE ported bass :-) Stingreen, Thanks. Will keep your advice in mind. |
I had a similar trouble with my 5A Vandersteens. I sent the driver to Vandersteen who said they were fine (not what you want to hear). After pulling the tweeter, et al, I sent back the crossover and amp. It seems that in pulling the crossover, I accidentally bent a wire that was touching something else.(very hard to slide that sucker out) It was bent back into place.....the speaker sounds great now. (don’t know if that’s your problem, but just telling you of mine) Make sure when you replace everything, it goes back into the proper enclosure. |
http://roshiend.ru/audiotech-page/noize-fabrik-scutum-3-0/ Here’s a link to one of my speakers. They are extraordinary, BUT they need the right room to play well. In my room they don’t work, unfortunately. No bass. |
Re amps: Atma-Sphere MA-1's with MP-3- Total knock out of the park I will be setting up my Ayre MXR (non Twenties) and a recently upgraded pair of McCormack DNA-1's that Steve was challenged to give the Atma's a run for the money. Sound Anchors just delivered my amp stands, so once things are put together it is off to the races.... @ja_zz When you get your Quatro's repaired, I think you might be considering other speakers for back up. Bob |
i ran my 5a with Mac 202, then Ayre VX-R, then got 7, then upgraded to VX-R Twenty, traded that in on Vandersteen Monoblocks. i will say that i have heard Quattro really sing on Ayre, Quicksilver, VTL, Aesthetix, ARC and Atmosphere amps... with the powered bass you have such an unfair advantage in amplifier choice...vs full range amps that can drive a spike to center of the earth type bass... i have been helping brother in law dial in his model 2 C signature and he is using a Odyssey amp from Klaus which punches way way above class, especially for a SS amp |
bummer on the wait good that RV can rebuild.... i forgot to ask him about this yesterday... silver lining - me personally i would take this , golden opportunity to get that second set of nice backup speakers.. my list in descending order: 7 mk2 Apogee Stage Klipsch Cornwall Bryston MiniA ADS L-730 Dynaco A-25 my plan is get rid of the junkpile except the A-25 for garage and get a pair of Treo CT |
Gentlemen, They were hand-delivered to me by the seller's nephew in his Land Rover (he was going somewhere further). Although they wrapped them up well in bubbly cellophane (whatever the name of this material is), I guess it took some damage. Or maybe it was defective upon dispatch, I don't know. I got in touch with RV, he is willing to rebuild the driver, since he has none of them left in stock. A very helpful gentleman indeed. But this requires taking it out and sending it in, which takes a lot of time, especially around Christmas. |
Vandersteen ships their speakers standing upright in the box secured to a pallet. The problem is, when a speaker is shipped this way and I suspect most speaker companies ship this way, it will put a driver in the speaker at risk of having its voice coil damaged when speaker is bounced or impacted. When I transport speakers in their box, I lay speakers on their backs so the voice coil will react more naturally to a bounce or impact meaning the cone will move up and down more naturally in the magnetic gap. This isn't perfect, but it does help in transit. I had to replace a cone midrange driver that was damaged this way. I did it myself, but I don't think the speaker manufacturer was as fussy about matching the drivers to the crossover as Vandersteen is. If Vandersteen could send you a properly matched driver, you could easily make the repair yourself. |
I "believe" I read in one of Richard's "Ask Richard" Q&A postings that he talked about how carefully the drivers in a pair of speakers are matched and then during testing the crossovers are adjusted as needed to meet a tight tolerance of response. Here's the "believe" part. I believe Richard may keep on record data about the response characteristics of drivers in a pair of his upper tier speakers of which I would consider the Quatro to be one. It might be worth a call to RV in Hanford to see if I'm on point or not. I truly empathize with your plight. I can't remember hearing of new Vandys not working right from the get go except in the case of transit abuse. Years ago I sent my model 3s to be upgraded and a "challenged" fork lift operator decided to drive the tongs of the lift through the speaker box. Good news. Vandersteen notified me right away, dealt with the shipper directly, fixed the damage, sent me back a fully intact pair of speakers including a copy of the receipt for the damage done by the shipper for my records. |
IF they are same spikes as 5a they are very nice and IMO very reasonably priced for audio jewelry- i bought 6 when i made maple amp stands for my Vintage Mac gear to bi-amp my Apogee Stages.. you can bet that was a very interesting conversation with Richard also IF you want most of the benefit of the spike but do not want to marr floors, they also have a machined aluminum cup with felt. i have tgese on my 7 makes tweaking placement easy ,,,, good luck on the driver - hope you can do it locally |
Your speakers should have come with spikes. You can probably make your own. Copied from the Vandy 2ce manual: If you set the speakers on a wood floor, place a coin under each stand spike or use 3/8-16 thread carriage bolts in place of the spikes to prevent damage to the floor. Carriage bolts have rounded heads that will not put holes in the floor.I believe all Vandies use the same thread size, but I might be wrong. In any case, try one and gently start threading. If it isn’t the correct size, it won’t thread easily. I would suggest something in the 2-2.5 inch length. Also, get some nuts so you can lock them in place. Are there Vandy dealers in Russia/Europe? It might make the process less difficult. A dealer might be able to make repairs locally and save you the hassle. B |
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Will call JohnnyR, thanks. Wrote to RV, he thinks this might be the speaker itself. Willing to rebuild it, but oh what a hassle to send it in from Russia and to get it back. At least 2mo of speakers not working... Yes, it is tightly screwed. A big Q for you Quatro owners: when your power amp is off, but the Q is still powered on, can you hear some slight hum coming out of your midbass speakers? Only audible when you have your ear next to them. Q#2: did your speakers come originally with some sort of spikes? If you can, please attach pics. Mine don't have them, don't know what to look for... Thanks! |
Nuts! Sorry to hear about your troubles. How were they shipped? In their boxes? I would call either Johnny R(or PM him), or Mr. V.- he calls back the next day. I believe the Quatro is designed so that you can remove and replace the affected driver with not too much problem- should it come to that. Bob |
Well, after a while I finally decided to go for those Quatros and did so. Got them a week ago and only now got home to update the battery and tune the HP filters and get a dedicated listen. Unfortunately I discovered that midwoofer on one of the speakers produces distorted sound (especially audible on piano). I did all the fiddling with changing the wires, amps, sources, powering the speaker off, etc, but the middle speaker (right below the tweeter) sounds distorted no matter what I do. The other speaker sounds better. The seller tells me that all was good with the speakers when he was listening to them last. Also, a week passed since I received them... So. Has anyone had experience of this sort? What can be wrong with them? |
Jazz Please make sure if you switch amps in the system that you use Vandertones and nail the X 5s hi pass set up proper dip switches to confirmed its exact input impedance with a voltmeter as instructed in the Vandy owners manual. It is essential to not just take for granted the amps input impedance spec as it's a good place to start most likely off and it could push the x over to 80 Hz which doesn't allow the Lightning fast Quatro driver to be at its best. Best JohnnyR |
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Da your password is secure !!! hope you have a fantastic vacation here i did a bit of an AM email exchange with RV the measured response was a room floor bounce / wall coupling issue that JA did measure but that you do not see in the anechoic chamber plots, completely fixining it for real rooms = box like sound that Vandersteen not known for. the Quattro is designed for closer placement to back wall for ( my words) WAF you might chat with RV about changes thru the production run prior to the CT i did not ask about that i am a fan with 7 MK2 in my home and his amps on the way so I am bissed 2nd home will get Quattro CT some day |