The crimes of September 11th were not brought about by jealousy, but hatred.
The resentment is born from the United States' support of Israel and its military presence in Saudi Arabia. Our freedom for all people, regardless of race, creed, sex, or thought only reinforces the hate.
Many people try to position themselves in a way that will benefit them out of the horror that took place. We, as free thinking people and Americans have the responsibility to try to analyze the events of that tragic day, and to determine a course of action to ensure that it is never repeated.
There is no room for false posturing or bravado, bullying, or wrongdoing in the name of right.
This year, on September 11th, I was overcome with emotion. For the first time in my life, I tasted a sense of what those that came before me feel every year on Pearl Harbor Day. A link between them and me was forged, as I got to walk a few feet in their shoes. My respect for them deepened.
We will never forget...
And, GOD BLESS AMERICA and all people everywhere |
Writing from New York, I am very confused about the actual causes and the best solutions for the future.
At the risk of being flamed however, and with sadness and compassion for the families of the victims -- something doesn't sit quite right with me regarding a lot of the political pomp and ceremony which has followed the murdurous act of flying two planes into skyscrapers.
In my small, uneducated opinion, I don't think it was about middle eastern "jealousy" of the American lifestyle.
I would like to report, however, that it was very moving to stand on Park Avenue and 57th Street and watch this normally frantic, aggressive city pause for a moment of silence at 8:46.
About 40 construction workers of diverse backgrounds, gathered in grassy median to bow their heads, many wearing American flags as bandanas - a gentle gesture from the guys that build the tall buildings, standing strong and proud to consider themselves New Yorkers.
Good luck to all of you and your friends and families. |
For the sake of courtesy, and the good of the site, I am going to let that subject lay, Pablo. |
Twl, how do you not make enemies when you call patriotic American citizens "enemies" for using an innocent word in the title of a song that other people misuse for their own perverted reasons?
Now that I'm (maybe temporarily) over my depression re 9-11-01 and able to reason a little more, I agree with everything Sek said above. But for those inclined to pray, do pray for our children who might be sent to war.
Paul, aka Pablo |
...yeah, i know... tomorrow will be 9/13,14,15,16,17.....
--buldings will be broght back to life maybe in another shape and i'm sure that they will attract more tourists while they're being built rather than after they're finished. ground zero is now a place of public attraction! there will be just a blink of an eye as we'll see wtc rise again...
--electronic data 100% recovered and in action to support Wall Street and other financial institutions economy rhythm stays unchanged.
--huge amount of funds raised from selling the books, documentary movies, posters, journals arround the world that might cover a vast part of wtc rebirth but at the same time gave more to the federal government than you can ever see in your dreams.
--and finally, life goes on! |
Twl man! You ruin the fun. :-)
PS. I got you. :-))... Been reading everyone post, you know. Let's move on. |
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Hey 6chac, we all love each other on this site, whether some have some disagreements or not. That is what I really like about it here. I can stick my foot in my mouth, and still not make any enemies, even if I can count on getting put in my place! :^) |
Hey, today is 9/12/02 the 9/11 is passed. Who ever picked on me yesterday, show your face ! :-) |
Fair enough Angela. Please accept my appology.
Damon |
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I am disappointed in how the members choose to derail the intent of this thread. It's all rememberance. Go start another thread if you want to complain, criticize, posture your beliefs, etc.
I took my team to lunch today and told them that if anyone asked how I choose to spend my time in rememberence today, it was that I spent some time with people that really mean something to me and that I love very much - which is all true - we have been together for years and are more like a family that coworkers.
I think that is a big part of the lesson - to not take life, loved ones for granted and to appreciate every moment.
Peace,
Angela |
Twl,
I am a letter carrier as stated before. After seing what goes on behind closed doors within the USPS I wouldn't doubt you for a second. Except, in our buisness these sorry ba$tards call it protecting the sanctity of the mail. |
Without trying to get into a big political mess over this, there is a boatload of evidence that the Federal gov't had mucho prior knowledge that this event was going to take place, and did nothing to stop it. Why that may be is up for discussion, but there are even lawsuits filed by FBI agents who tried to warn the Justice Dept. and were ignored. The lawyer representing them, is the same guy who prosecuted Clinton in the House impeachment proceedings. I can't remember his name. He even went to Ashcrofts office to warn him, and they said that they wouldn't see him. These 3 FBI agents are now filing suit for ignoring them and failing to protect the American people. These same FBI agents were told that if they said anything about being ignored they would be arrested under national security violations. Now tell me that something isn't terribly wrong. |
Bowbow,
I believe you misinterpreted my intentions. The point I was trying to make was very similar to that of Markanetz.
Comparing the fate of the Jews or an individual who is violated is essentialy comparing apples and squash. We aren't speaking of individuals but of a government body in which had failed not in one instance but several. Thus, allowing to events of 9-11 to occur. I am not suggesting that it was known exactly what would happen but I am suggesting that it was a result of callous disregard. Too frequently our law makers simply create "make happy" laws as opposed to addressing real issues. We can spend all days analyzing the symptoms of problems but, until we address the problem itself it never ceases or improves for that matter.
In Texas recently a law was passed lowering the blood alchohol level in which one is considered intoxicated as an attempt to deter fatal accidents caused by drunk drivers. Granted this would be a great idea if the responsible adult who goes out to dinner with his or her family and has a single glass of wine was the culprit which is all the alchohol consumption in which is required to get a DWI. The events of Sept. 11 are similar in nature we have known for years what terrorists groups posed a threat as well as the fact that several of thier members were in our country. What did our government do about it? Nothing.
Damon |
It's hard to argue with the statement that as a nation we delude ourselves into thinking we are both strong and safe. Poland allowed herself to be caught unaware. Everyone knew what was happening in Germany, Hitler made no pretense about rearming. He claimed to be "catching up" but we saw the result of that. I'm almost afraid to say this for being accused of antisemitism; which I deny, but the Jews have been persecuted so many times in their history they assumed this was just another burden to bear. They ignored Hitlers obvious and stated intentions to their own detriment. The point of all this is to say: we as a nation have done the same things with enemies internal and external.
I hope and pray that those who died last year did not die in vain. We need to wake up! |
Damon,
if there were no masks and theatrical plays inside the political structures of our country, the government would AT LEAST publicly ask us civilians for forgiveness rather than showing off how patriotic and strong we are.
DID IT EVER HAPPENED??? DID ANYONE FROM THERE EVER ASKED THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES FOR FORGIVENESS??? DID THE NEW YORK CITY ASKED THE FAMILIES OF THE KILLED FIREFIGHTERS AND POLICEMAN FOR FORGIVENESS???
seing is believing and i can state that we're not as strong as it seems since we prefere being in the mask rather than uncover sincerely and honest.
in the mask we could state that we're angels and anything happened isn't our fault at all.
as i stated before just wake up and learn to reveal a tru sight of what's going on arround you... |
EEK.....Do I understand you guys correctly?? Was it Poland's fault for not protecting its citzens from the Nazi's? Do the 6 million Jews who died at the hands of the Nazi's only have themselves to blame?? It it only a women's fault for not protecting herself better when she is mugged or worse? I agree I wish our government was more pro-active in these things, but to be blamed for the barbaric acts of others is too much?? |
Marakanetz,
I wondered if the point in which you made would be touched upon. With respect sir I salute you.
However, I ask you this if it souldn't have happened why did it? I ask for your thoughts as to what can be done to avoid future events. You see essentially what you stated has been true for years. Take desert storm for example, our reaction to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was much too sudden for us not to have been informed before hand. But instead of exploiting this information to potential allies and preventing it and/or obtaining the respect of other nations, which in tern, would have allowed us the opportunity to eliminate terrorist groups prior to becoming a problem. Instead we elect to sit on our thumbs and react to events rather to prevent them.
Damon |
Charles, as a born and raised New Yorker I know that ALL of the victims and their families have the sympathy of New York. I think the sheer numbers involved and the fact that they were civilians in New York and not goverment employees underlines the concept of terrorism and how it makes all of humanity vulnerable. New Yorkers have had particular praise for the brave individuals who sacrafised their lives in Pennsylvania.
As an opponent of organized religon I hope that this forum doesn't become a vehicle for religous perspective. At the risk of appearing hypocritical I believe that a private perspective of spirtuality might save us from these terrible offenses. Please, let us not sever our common interests in this debate.
I moved to a small town in New Jersey 5 months before this tragedy. My new town has offered 4 white paper bags containing 4 white candles to all of it's inhabitants. Each of these candles is to be lit and put into it's own bag and placed on our front door step to comemomerate each airplanes passengers, that had fallen victim to this tragedy. A public gathering, as well as special srvices and requiems at most of the houses of worship are also planned. My friend John Sbarbaro was lost in the World Trade Center. His loving significant other Judy is planning a golf outing in early October to celebrate the joys of his life, friends and golf. I don't play but I hope to attend. |
believe it or not but i believe that 9/11 is a result of failure of our country to protect us civilians from such tragic event.
will these attacs against iraq or afgan save us from future attacs like that; or we should feel like a chicken eating bull$hit, giving some eggs and than later-on getting our throats cut for someone else's dinner??
the government actions in reaction to this event seemed to be more theatrical than political playing-off some kind-of drama to call to unite and stand; and i dare to say that for this particular drama there is an author for damn sure!
in reality for example, there is no need to send 200 firemen to die in order to demonstrate a patriotizm...
take a moment of silence to the innocent american and international civilians resided and burnt under the flames of wtc, firemen and policeman of nyc but please, open your eyes! wake up!
this should've never happened! |
Being an aetheist/humanist I cannot pray. However I use my reflections of the tragic loss to try to constantly remind myself to be grateful for what I have and to strive to do whatever I can in life to make this world a better place for others. I forget who it was modified Jesus' original quote, but it is the quote by which I would like to try to live:
"Treat thy neighbor as you would have him treat you, and remember all living creatures are your neighbors". |
God bless you, Nrchy. God bless everyone, God bless America. |
Today will be a day of quiet remembrance, reflection, and discussion with friends, away from the hype, spin, and agendas on the tv.
What I'll be remembering about September 11 are the heroic, mostly public, workers, most prominently firefighters but also *many* others, who are usually taken for granted or devalued in many ways, but who, on September 11, were providing the kinds of essential services, big and small, that they are ready to provide every day. On that day, they had to begin to deal with the attack on and murder of thousands of innocent people in the World Trade Center. The Pentagon, an important command and control center, might have been considered to be a more legitimate military target in a different context, if the attackers were part of a military force, but the terrorists were members of a covert multi-national criminal gang that is still bent on destroying its targets without much regard for the guilt, innocence, religion, or national origin of their victims...
I'll also remember the passengers on that flight that crashed that day in Pennsylvania, who heroicly did their best, as soon as they heard about the planes crashing into the World Trade Center.
I'll also recall that while most national politicians, including Mr. Bush, were flailing about for the correct posture, soundbite, and setting for a week or three, Mayor Giuliani stepped up boldly, wisely, and compassionately and was a major spokesman for his city and the nation for a few crucial weeks. He was one of the few politicians truly ennobled by the attack and the sacrifices of his troops.
I'll also reflect on what has been done and what has not been done since then. I'll think about how little has been done to address the chronic intelligence problems that were and still are a prime source of our vulnerability, while so many of our traditional freedoms and legal protections were so hastily imperiled or trashed (and I'm not referring to inconvenieces at airports and the like). I'll think about all the political and corporate agendas that have been pushed forward, while Americans have been preoccupied by a putative war on terror. I'll think about the instability and trauma that is growing in Afghanistan, the probable war with Iraq, and the various far-reaching ramifications of both. And there is so much more...
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Obviously, moderating this thread is having no effect. To Audiogon, please just let people say what they want to say. To everyone else, please refrain from finding fault with each other and arguing.
Of course, Nrchy, pray if you will for those who lost loved ones. I didnt mention them because everyone else does. I do pray for Divine guidance to somehow ameliorate the base instincts of the people currently in positions of power in this nation. But God help me, I am thankful I am not in a position to make decisions about what to do as a nation, and I am reluctant to criticize those who are, no matter how illegitmate their route to power. And no matter what I think of them, and no matter what they decide, I will support them.
I will support them because my country was attacked and they are in charge of responding. You say God is not a prostitute. I agree. God does not need public displays of obeisance. He certainly doesnt need for any nation or people or individual to use His name for their own selfish purposes. But I will tell you this, and the leader of my faith said it several years ago, the documents that underly our nation's system of government, the Declaration and the Constitution, have an aspect of providence to them. That is, even though some of the drafters were deists or atheists, God had a hand in the founding of this nation, the United States of America, a beacon of light and hope to the human race. Our leaders make mistakes abroad, do a lot of stupid things. But an attack on this nation, on its own soil, is simply evil. |
6chac, God is not male or female, and there can only be one God. Since His own word uses masculine pronouns I feel no need to bend to the whims of political corectness. I'm not sure I understand your question because you obviously mistyped it. |
I choose to remember how everyone came together (and continues to come together) to do the right thing.....
...some incredible things....... |
9/11 was something that we should never, ever have to tolerate. This one hit home, and hit hard. Not only have innocent lives been lost, but we now find the freedom we took for granted compromised. A first foreign hit on American soil, yet so much has gone on around us that we all took as "part of the evening news". Innocent people have been slaughtered all over the world; Africa, the Middle East to name a few. Let's not internalize this too much, let's put this in perspective and consider the many wrongs going on in the world. The bigger question is, what will we all do to make planet Earth a better and more humane place to live? Peace, Jeff |
Hello Nrchy, which God are you referring to ? Catholic God, Christian God ? or Muslin God ? Etc... I know which God ask for blessing, do you ? And he/she is not a prostitute ! So please don't label him/her. Thanks. |
No letter carriers at the Church St Station were lost in the incident.Most of them were setting up the routes for the days delivery.Mahattan has an 8am starting time so most were inside racking the mail.As far as I know no postal personnel were lost on that day,but all the letter carriers there were affected as most of the folks working in the towers were like family to them.Youre correct management are a bunch of idiots and they got a 4% raise for being dumb as the hardest working people the letter carriers got 1.8 % which is crumbs to me,but lets thanks the creator that all of us are continued to be blessed to have another dya of life. |
Well, I was in charge of getting a list of volunteers for the 9/11 ceremony after work, had 4 names. Guess where I'll be? Tom G |
Vayasteve,
What do you mean management was so confused? I thought they stayed that way.
All B.S. aside. I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your friend. Do you know how many carriers we lost? I realize it isn't really an appropiate question. I have tried to get a strait answer from my supervisors but, you know how difficult that is.
Damon |
I'd add to paulwp's list, pray for the fatherless children who were left that way because their parents were murdered last year on 9/11. Tom couldn't be more right about his advice, but how can a nation who has chased God out of the public arena now ask Him for blessing. My wife has sex with me because we have a relationship outside of the bedroom too. God is not a prostitute! |
Well, for me, it looks like it's going to be business as usual. It would've been nice to have a day off to remember and reflect upon the thousands of lives that we have lost on that dreadful day.
Of course, most of what will be going on tomorrow will be taking place in New York. But something will be going on down here in Washington, D. C. too.
But now, what I want to know is why does New York gets so much more press coverage and sympathy sent their way than does Washington, D. C.??? After all, I know they blew up the Trade Center up there in New York City. But they did blew up the Pentegon also. But the Washington, D. C. area does not get as much press coverage as does New York City. And the lives that we have lost down here cannot be any less important than the ones that was lost up there in New York. As a Washingtonian, I am offended that we feel slighted by all of this, not to mention feeling slightly irked by all of this. It feels like as if in this whole ordeal, that Washington, D. C. feels like a stepchild compared to New York City. That's my observation.
Comments Anyone?????
--Charles-- |
For whom shall we pray? If you are so inclined, let me offer a suggestion or two. Pray for those who lost their lives in the attacks and for those who gave their lives trying to save others. Pray for those who willingly enter harm's way to protect and serve us every day.
Pray for those who we have charged with making decisions for our nation about how we should respond to the attacks and protect ourselves from further harm, and for those who must carry out those decisions.
Pray for our children who may in the near future be required to enter combat on their country's behalf. |
I,m a letter carrier and on that fateful day everybody stopped working and went upstairs to see the TV set in the swing room.No work was done until 11:00 am.Management was so confused,but I suggested that the most important thing to do at that moment was to deliver the mail and to let folks know that we as Americans was not going to let those bums scare us from doing our daily routines.Tomorrow at the MAIN Post office at MAIn St. Flushing at exactly 8:46 am we will be having a candlelight vigil in front of the P.O...unfortunatly Postal management will ot let us do this on their time but it will only be for 10 minutes on our break time.But no matter what we cannot forget,i lost a good buddy,PAUL ZOIS he was on the 96th floor on that day and his spirit always remains with my brother an myself.My brother is a letter carrier in Boca Raton Fla. and I'm ouite sure he will refelct and remember on that moment too.I will be delivering the mail on Sept 11th.... |
I'll never forget, but this would be always my regular day. If it falls to the weekend, There will certainly be no party...
I'm not a born american, but I know that it should've never happened.
And finally do we realy know who attacked America that day?? |
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God has something to say about this. "Seek My face, Humble yourselves in prayer, Turn from your wicked ways, And I will heal your land." These are His simple conditions in the Bible, for the Blessing we all seek. Can we comply? If we truly seek His Blessing, then we should all try our best to meet His conditions for it. It would surely go better for us if we all did. His Divine protection is what we need at this dangerous time in history. The way is simple and defined, if we would only follow it. Many would say that it is impossible, but sincere efforts will not go unnoticed. It is a 2-way street. If we want the Blessing, we must follow His instructions. God Bless America! |
My parents asked if my girlfriend and I wanted to go to a gathering of sorts with people we dont know.. sort of a public vigil... I didnt feel that that was the way I wanted to pay my respects and remember the tragedy.. I would like to sit at home with candle light and listen to some slow music with my loved ones... I feel that remembering the events of the day , where I was, who I was with.. and appreciating the fact that my friends and family are still in my life is the right thing to do for me. I really dont care to see the terrible pictures of the planes hitting the towers and all the commotion. That has been played out. I prefer to look back on the last year and see how far we have come as a society. Look at personal goals set and met, look at relationships that grew stronger over the year. Try to be better person... and think of the families that have been destroyed as a result of losing a loved on in the attacks. Be thankful for the little things.. We all have to grieve in our own way... there is no right or wrong. |
On that fateful day we were one people, no borders.....yes, God bless America,,,,bless us all and the families of all who lost loved ones on 09/11. It will be a quiet, reflective day here in Nova Scotia....everyone I have talked to is thinking of it..... |
I was on top of the WTC in August 2001 and vowed to come back to this unique place....
I still cannot come to terms with what happend.
On 9/11 I will play Johannes Brahms "A German Requiem" and will think of all who died and suffered so much.
Love from Germany. |
I'll attend a special service at my church Wed. evening.
Ironically, the morning of 9/11, we were getting ready for a funeral for our good friend's father. At the gravesite service I just kept thinking how many times this scenario would be repeating itself. It was and still is hard to imagine all the people who died that day.
I didn't know any of them but they have become a part of all of us, I think it's safe to say. |
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I will be performing in a program and concert at Goucher College in Towson, Maryland. It will be broadcast live on WYPR 88.1 FM starting at 7:30pm. It is free and open to the public as well (Kraushaar Auditorium). No tickets needed. |
Wmcmanus- Wow, I don't think you can say how important things are until its to late any better then you just did- I am glad we can see the errors of our past and let those who are still here know what they mean to us, there is never a better time then the present to let everyone how special they are to you. My aunt worked in building II as well and that was a very scary day- the only reason she made it was shear coincidence, decided to have breakfast that mourning and go in a little later- she was in the lobby when the plane hit, but in the chaos was lost for more then a day and we just didn't know what happened. You have my condolences on your loss- a life can never be replaced, though justice can be served. God bless America |
If I was at liberty to I would spend the day with my family. However, I as a letter carier feel it would be in poor taste not to show up to work on that day. It may seem silly to a lot of you but, many of my customers took the liberty of expressing thier conscerns for my saftey when we had the anthrax scare. Thus, it is my way of saying GOD BLESS AMERICA and F%!K YOU!! Osama. |
Its hard to believe that its almost been a year since the worst tragedy in the history of the United States on our home soil. Every day Im thankful for all my family and the ability to live in this glorious country. Personally, Ill be making time all day to speak to my high school social studies students about the impact and changes in our lives that 9/11/01 have made, besides following the current events that are continuing to take us closer to further showdowns.
God bless America, home of the free and the brave. |
I'm taking the day off to spend with my wife. It's almost
apple season here in southern Wisconsin, so we're taking a
drive and spending the day together. I just don't feel
like working, since it's not really a "normal" day. |
