Schiit Freya plus. Is this an upgrade?

I was just informed by Grover of Schiit Audio that Schiit has moved to using 7-10 thicker circuit boards "on some of their newer products." What this could mean for the Freya+ is less flex during tube rolling or changing..
    

I used headphone amps as preamps for a while. They can sound good, but a dedicated pre can be better optimized for that application because it never needs to drive loads below 10,000 ohms, which has implications for the choice of parts and design of the output stage. E.g. for many tube preamps that means the ability to use much higher quality, lower capacitance film caps (for output coupling) within budget.

If you don't need the remote their headphone amps (solid state and tube) can be used as preamps. 

@mulveling, lol

Yeah - lots of empty space indeed! Those pics alone could score Freya+ the thunderdome victory - you know how superficial we audiophiles can be. 

They finally have pics of the internals on the schiit.com website. Lots of empty space in the Freya S compared to the +

Freya+ looks amazing...

@mrdon- great choice!

mrdon- Lucky you.

An update on Freya models. I went on Schiit's website on 5/25 and purchased the Freya. Next thing i know its 5/29 and i see the above thread about a Freya upgrade. I went on the website and lo and behold, the Freya S-solid state & Freya + are listed. I was dumbfounded (not too difficult of a task) & needles to say i was upset because i thought i should have been contacted. A few emails later and i realized i had been contacted via email only it was an old email i rarely use but, it was the one on record.

Schiit Audio May 28, 2019, 10:37 AM

(2 days ago) to me 
Good Morning, We are sorry for the delay in shipping. The Freya now comes in two versions . The Freya S,Passive or Active Solid State Remote Balanced Preamp for $599.00 and the Freya Plus Passive or Active Solid State or Tube Remote Balanced Preamp which is $899.00. Please let us know which version you would like and we will charge you accordingly.
Thank You Schiit Audio
So, NO MORE FREYA as we knew it..
I opted for the upgrade so i am waiting with anticipation... 

@axameman- excellent link, thank you.
@lobinero - I'm using a Vincent SP-331 stereo amp. I prefer the Freya in tube mode. My front end is an Oppo 103 as a transport and a Schiit Modi Multi for the DAC. I have run a dedicated AC line to a dedicated room with acoustic treatment on all four walls and the ceiling. I am very happy with the sound quality. YMMV.

Tom

Tomcarr

i also have Vang’s 2cig. What amplification are you using your with the Frey’s to drive your Vandys. Can you give your opinion on sound quality. Can you compare to other set ups with the Vandys?  I drive mine with a Rogue Chronus Mag., but I’m very interested what a Freya/ Vidar combo can do.

tomcarr here is the link for that DIY
Ground Loop Hum Eliminator     posted by  SeDeuced


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuvDMjxhE68&list=PL6l4LFCWKu3nRwK94OFjbmA3ATSgMpSMq&index=24&t=0s

tomcarr I basically built an Ebtech Hum Eliminator outlet box off of a Video from youtube,It was kickin my tail and I was very frustrated. I had read that other folks may have experienced the same thing.I researched and stumbled accross the youtube video.It worked like a champ!

The Freya+ is a Thunderdome category product. It will only be produced as long as strong consumer demand exists for it.

@axememan- You mentioned a hum issue "at first". What, if anything, did you do to rectify that issue?

I did have to battle a Hum Issue with my Freya at first.Tube shutoff would be a big plus as well.I usually leave My Freya on from Friday Night thru Sunday Evening and make sure I am going thru the Passive or Jfet section.I'm not sure how much faster I will burn thru Tubes but,I am willing to roll the dice to keep the engine warmed up and ready to go to 11 at a moments notice.

Aside from the usage of circlotron which caught my attention( maybe Ralph can chime in), I am also a little confused about no 2 of Ghasley's FAQ cut and paste:
Were there incompatability issues of single ended sources with balanced outputs or vice versa?

If so, I wasn’t aware of it on this forum

Outstanding customer support. Nice to hear good news from time to time.

Not on point but relevant to Schiit. I have the original Freya with upgraded tubes. I’m very pleased with the performance.   I had a small cosmetic issue with the unit. I received two replacement parts and the tool necessary within five days. Says something about their customer support. 

PS
@ghasley - I applaud your common-sense statement: " in a normal home with normal ambient noise, the Schiit preamps may be all the typical audiophile ever needs". Well said.
We are quite the neurotic group, audiophiles, always chasing the unknown, always concerned something's not right, forever searching...

Tom

I ordered a Freya on 3.30.2019 and received it about a month later because they were backordered. Went with the upgrade tubes which brought the price to just under $800.00. Now the price is significantly lower for that same unit. It would've been nice to know that they had an upgraded version coming in just a few weeks. No real complaints with the unit but having the ability to shut down the tubes without pulling them out  when using the jfet and passive mode would make things easier. I would've waited for the newer model had I known. Maybe they'll offer an upgrade sometime soon. 

@tomcarr



No worries at all! I’m far from being a knowledge base for Schiit gear, just a casual observer. They make amazing gear that most everyone can afford and enjoy. Frankly, I wish they had come along before I went down the rabbit hole chasing sound in ever more expensive ways. All the best and enjoy your Freya, it is a truly fine piece of gear and when you factor in the price to value ratio, there may not be a better proposition anywhere.

@ghasley - wow, that is substantial. Thank you very much for taking the time to provide that information. I'm more than a little embarrassed that I obviously didn't do enough research of my own. I'm perfectly happy with my Freya, but I can see the draw of the Freya+ to those on the fence considering a purchase. Happy (quiet) listening :).

Tom

This is what I've been waiting for, I bought the Saga instead of the original Freya just on the hopes that they would do this!!! Tube shut down is AWESOME.

I had a Freya and returned it during the trial period.
The noise heard when using the remote was too
annoying. 

I’ve got an original Freya with NOS tubes (CBS Hytron and GE) feeding a pair of PS Audio M700 monoblocks and have used that with both Zu Omens and Klipsch Heresy III’s and there was Zero noise audible with my ear right up at the speaker.  The only complaint I had about the original is you can’t tell where the volume is set once you use the remote, and they seemed to have fixed that now, but that’s not enough to make me want to buy another one.  I’m more than satisfied with the one I’ve got.

@tomcarr

From the FAQ section of the Freya + on Schiit's website:

"So what’s the difference between Freya+ and the original Freya?
Actually, quite a bit. Here’s the breakdown:

1. Freya+ has a completely new tube stage, with DC heaters and a noise-cancelling semi-circlotron output buffer, which reduces noise by more than 20dB when compared to the original Freya—a significant improvement!
2. Freya+ has a completely new differential JFET buffer stage, which converts single-ended signals to balanced, which allows you to use more sources with mono Vidars or Aegirs.
3. Freya+ has a tube shutdown mode—tubes are completely off unless Freya is in tube output mode (no B+, no heaters, off means off), so you can extend life of costly tubes.
4. Freya+ has a motorized pot that tracks the remote control volume, which provides a continuous physical reference for the volume level.
5. Freya+ uses our new “fastenerless” chassis for a sleeker overall look.
6. Freya+ is sold only with new production Tung-Sol tubes, which we have found to be superior to affordable NOS tubes."

I've had a Freya and a couple of Sagas, amazing preamps for the money and its important to note that I also had an Audio Research Ref 5se at the same time. Make no mistake, the Freya/Saga did not play in the same league as the Ref 5se but you are talking orders of magnitude here. The Freya to me was noisier than the Saga but, (a) I only used the Freya single ended and (b) it was not noisy enough to cause me any issues and (c) I was using the Freya/Saga with non Schiit amps. The 5se is dead quiet and 3 dimensional in a way that defies reason, its that good BUT...and this is a big but, in a normal home with normal ambient noise, the Schiit preamps may be all the typical audiophile ever needs.

Any way you slice it, if this outperforms the original Freya, then it is a stone cold bargain. 

I also have been shocked and rendered defensive by those with noisy Freyas, although those mostly seemed from tubes. Maybe I can stop being such a "Schitt Defender." My speakers are 99db efficient and I’d know it if a pesky hum showed up...does the new Freya seem to have returned to the 12 db or so jump in tube mode? I’m used to that in mine, although it seemed later versions had lessoned that somehow...and the "tube shut-off" feature doesn’t matter to me since I only use the non tube modes to check on my tubes, and I turn everything off when I’m not around. So now I’m back to simply being a "me" defender.

Interesting, and I'd buy one if my "original version" seemed noisy or lacking in some way

If you have a look, there's 4 new preamps in the Freya/Saga range.

And by saying the old was/could be noisy, it could have been only with measurements you could see this, not by ear, but this is enough to put the fear of god into some users to upgrade to the newer ones! Great Schiit marketing!!!!

Should be some great used buying of older models coming up soon.

Cheers George  

@mulveling - that makes sense, thanks for the clarification. My Vandy 2Cs sensitivity is on the low side, about 86 dB if memory serves me correctly.

Tom

A preamp that seems whisper quiet in a typical system can suddenly have very noticeable noise (from seating position) when placed in a system with high-sensitivity speakers & amps. If your speakers are below 90 dB, your system probably won’t be a stress test for preamps, and you’ll be wondering about others’ complaints of noise. My speakers are 96 dB / Watt, 8 ohm, and amps output almost 300 Watts at 1V input. It is definitely a stress test for preamps. Impressively, the ARC REF 6 is whisper quiet here.

The Freya +’s noise spec of -115dB, if legit, is superb. Stereophile measured the REF 6 at -100dB, A-weighted.

@ghasley - 20 dB reduction is very surprising. I haven't been able to find that information.  Like @wolf_garcia , mine is very quiet. With the gear at idle, I measure 37dB room noise from my listening seat 11 feet away. Noisy is not an adjective I would use to describe my Freya. Curious that others have found it noisy.

Tom

This should be a considerable upgrade. Maybe transformational for Schiit. Any time you lower the noise floor in any product by 20db over the outgoing model, that's significant. The ability to shut down the tubes when not in use is a big deal to many and the stepped volume knob I guess is nice. With the ability to cycle the tubes on/off, one can leave the preamp on all the time, sort of like a stand by status, and then turn on as necessary. The Freya S (without the tube stage) provides a pretty nice balanced remote controlled linestage for less than $600 and is likely all the non tube camp should need without spending alot more money.

Whether the Schiit sound (or lack thereof) floats your boat or not, what they are doing to make high quality audio gear affordable is refreshing.

Interesting, and I'd buy one if my "original version" seemed noisy or lacking in some way, but it's interesting that Schiit seems to be listening to their critics. Another note, I've found the Tung Sols to be consistent but somewhat duller sounding than the NOS RCAs and Sylvanias that I prefer to use in mine. Neither of these tubes are particularly expensive and actually can cost about the same as the new Tung Sols.