Schiit Freya plus. Is this an upgrade?

I use Balanced with my Bryston 4B3 with zero problems. Not sure where this is coming from. Running the Freya Plus for 1.5 Years

I think they say this because you HAVE to have mono blocks in order to use balanced with THEIR amps. Vidar and Aiger only have one XLR input.

I'm considering the Freya+ to replace my Onkyo P-3000R preamp. The main reason is the Onkyo doesn't have balanced outputs. ATC that makes my amplifier highly recommends using balanced whenever possible. I emailed Schiit and they responded quickly saying the balanced should only be used for monoblocks and that I should use single ended. I'm sure they know what they are talking about but I'm just wondering if any of you can explain why this would be. In other words why I shouldn't use the balanced outputs of the Freya+ into my amp. Just trying to educate myself on preamp/amp compatibility regardless of which brand I use

The Schiit Audio site still has them in stock, apparently, while the Freya+ is listed as in backorder status.  

Things I like about the Freya+ is the jaw dropping audio quality.

True balanced design for my Gungnir

The volume knob tracking with the remote 

The 3 modes of operation is a stroke of genius

The looks are really something, no screws on the top plate.

I just ordered this week a freya S from amazon  . they ship direct from schitt . they said 5 left after I ordered.  now there are none. 

mine is on its way. hope its what I needed cause I was going to order in a month or so until I read they freya S was not going to be made any more after stock was sold. 

If I could change one thing, I would want the lights to be cyan instead of white to match the rest of my system and to keep the glare down in the evening. I only use the remote to shift out of tube mode, otherwise it stays on 24.7  
Things I do like:
Low Noise Floor. Its quiet. I don't hear any white noise.
Shift from Tube mode cuts tubes offline.
Balanced Inputs.
Auto Delay on the Tubes, I'm impatient sometimes and would jump the gun.
Not having to open the box and pull the unit out to roll tubes.
Cost IMHO is below what you get.
Lastly, it makes me enjoy my music more. I spend more time listening.

The Freya+ is a great sounding preamp; perhaps that's the bottom line, But it is built to a price. I like mine, but here's what I dislike about it:
-Factory change to JJ tubes is cost saving measure compared to original Tung Sols. The TSs were given great credit in reviews for the excellent Freya+ SQ out of the box. I tried but no longer use the JJs in the tube gain positions.
-Poor user interface. Change from the direct remote control of attenuator to a motorized volume control together with same cheap membrane remote provides less control. There is a lag and it's too easy to over- and under-shoot desired volume. Sometimes a real PITA. Sometimes a slight stutter in sound while adjusting. Slightly better results with a learning remote.
-Very poor (virtually no) visual indication of the 128 steps of volume level. It needs an led indication. 
-No balance control.
-No tape out.
-Gets very hot when in use with tubes. The heat is not from the tubes, which are external. Raises issues of capacitor life.
-Case cannot be opened, not even to change a fuse.

is the Freya+ a better unit than this lite audio ls60?

http://www.china-hifi-audios.com/en/preamplifier-c-34/lite-ls60-tube-preamp-full-balanced-xlr-preamp...

melm,

    You are correct, The unit arrived with a set of JJ tubes but I already had a set of quad Tung Sols before I purchased the unit as I had decided on finding a tube pre-amp.  Perhaps this weekend I will have time to compare.  

On the Freya volume, there is a small explanation on the webpage about the relay switched stepped attenuator volume control.  128 steps, but I’m not sure how many dB per step.

 It sounds like much the same design as what’d in your dac, except with resistors.  It probably won’t make a difference which volume you employ.

@phcollie,

I thought all new Freya+ units were being delivered with JJ tubes.  Have they gone back to Tung Sol, or did you just buy a quad?  If you did, did you compare and can you describe the difference between the two brands?  Thanks.

213Runnin,
    Good point. I only use one source, my Dac. It has 99 step .5db linear volume control with only one resistor in the signal path at any setting. (NuPrime Dac10)
  I don't know how the Freya+ Volume control is designed.  Didn't see any detail on the website or in the manual...maybe someone else knows?

Yeah, the Freya+ is for real, nice to hear impressions from another new owner.  Nice system btw, Maggies and the Oddyssey amp.  With the Freya's state of the art volume control, it might be worth it to try running the DAC at full volume and use the Freya's.

I think word is getting out, the Freya is sold out and on back order.

My Freya + arrived and man am I impressed. Quad Matched Tung Sols. Running Fully Loaded Odyssey amp to a set of Maggie 1.7 After 5 hours I don’t want to cut it off. Thankful for an empty house. I have read many posts claiming excellent synergy with a tube preamp, a/b amp and maggies. The difference is night and day with the Schiit in the line. Mind Blown. They did not lie. I use my DAC attenuation and leave the Freya+ open.

@mach1acoustics,

I've had my Freya S for three days now. I am enjoying it. I look forward to your comparison to the Spectral.

Cheers,

Scott

Have had a Freya S in my system for about 5 days nowIt took a while to break in  I needed to limit the output of my DAC to 2v single endedNeeded to use shorting caps on all unused inputs to prevent irritating rf Superb for $700 will compare it to Spectrals 30SV next week

Rrebello, are you sure it's better than the Cj 3se? I own one and now you got me thinking of trying that piece of schit!😊

I wish people wd stop slating JJ tubes based on forum stuff from 10 yrs ago. I use JJ KT88 in a SET and 5751 in a pre w no problems.
The SET has been totally abused by the wife, switching off then on, unplugging stuff causing terrible noises etc. Tubes still work fine

Well, everyone has a budget, and has decisions to make.  That's why I'm so enthusiastic about Schiit, the sound is pretty much amazing for what you pay.  I'd suggest if the Freya+ is too steep for you, look at the Freya S.  It has the same impressive specs, but no tube stage. 

@213runnin 
thanks for those performance specs. i am looking hard at this Freya+ although a ChiFi model is alot easier on my finances right now...   

The Vidar, also from Schiit.  It too was an audibly improved model over my mid fi stuff, though not as dramatic.  With amps, I think it’s easier to design a decent sounding performer.

I’m glad you’re enjoying your Freya +, 213running. My Freya S is scheduled for Friday delivery. 
What amp are you running with the Freya +?
Cheers,

Scott

Sorry samac, I can’t offer any Freya S impressions, but I’ve been trying to find the specs of the old Freya and compare them with the Freya +. I found them, and a few specs stood out for me, while others were pretty much the same.

With jfet buffer stage:

OG Freya vs +: SNR 110db A weighted vs 120db A weighted


With tube stage:

OG vs +: SNR 100db A weighted vs 115 A weighted


Also, the crosstalk spec is really notable:

OG vs +: >75db vs 85 db, both from 20 - 20kHz

IMHO, 10 to 15db differences are going to be REALLY detectable by ear. The crosstalk numbers are more of an indication of better isolation from channel to channel, perhaps an indication that the Freya + is built to a higher standard or spec than the OG. Which would kind of make sense since it’s $200 more, or around a 28% price increase.

I never had the OG Freya, but the old Saga as mentioned above. The Freya+ has been a revelation. It’s so far above my old mid fi gear(Nad C375BEE, Parasound P5 and Adcom 555SE), and substantially cheaper!  They have probably really shaken up the industry.

Placed an order for a Freya S a couple of days ago and looking forward to receiving it

The amp in our main system died and I will be using my trusty old NAD 320BEE with the Freya S. I can’t wait to try the volume control; From the pics out there it looks sweet.

I would appreciate any more listening impressions/observations from Freya S owners. TIA

Cheers,

Scott

IMHO, if you’re going to warn people away from a specific brand tube based on your experience, 4+ years ago is not recent enough to go on.

Current info shows JJ (Jan Jorgo) as being made in Slovakia purportedly with previously owned Tesla equipment.
Tungsol made be New Sensor (Mike Matthews) owned by an American and produced in Saratov, Russia. Sovtek made there as well. Not up to researching more at the moment but there are possibly other smaller companies that are making tubes. TJ  Full Music  If info currently applies has their own factory which is  a separate entity from the big players in China.

from what I have read, all the new production tubes come from just two locations - one in China and one in Russia. Only the brand name changes....

I posted this elsewhere  and repeating myself   FWIW -- I stay away from JJ tubes based on my experience with them and there are many links online about the quality of this brand.   In all fairness considering there are those here using them  with no issues its entirely possible that quality control has improved over the last few years or so and maybe more digging would confirm that. 

  I bought a quad of JJ power tubes more than  a few years back and was having noise issues in the vintage Sherwood integrated I had and sent the amp to a tech I have used over the last 10 yrs or so.   He said the only problem with the amp was the tubes.   the new JJ's.    During this period there seemed to be more than  an usual amount of complaining about JJ tubes. 

Im still on the fence on going for the plus.    If there was just a tape monitor on there that would be a game changer possibly.    In the meantime its beneficial to hear what others are experiencing with the  Plus.    

Well the Freya+ is certainly an upgrade over the OG Saga, no doubt about that!  I've only had it a couple of days, but even out of the box it's more dynamic with a bigger soundstage and seemingly better detail.  

This is my first go at a tube based pre, the Saga had one tube as a buffer only.  When I first got it the jfet buffer mode was a little quieter than the volume pot only mode.  But on day two the db difference between the two disappeared, and I suspect as it burns in things will improve further.

The tubes were also making some slight noise with no music playing occasionally.  I powered down and removed them, and found I hadn't inserted them fully.  I also used some deoxit on the pins just in case.  Upon full insert they've been dead silent since.  And what a jaw dropping SQ.  It's a new level of "in the room live performance" for me.  

I can see why they keep selling out on the Schiit page.

Tung Sol
GTB
brown base

Did your Freya + come with JJ 6SN7s? My curiosity about those tubes has driven me to order a couple of 'em as I can also use them in my single ended power amp...my tube pile keeps increasing and I like it!

Still very happy with unit. No problems whatsoever.

Liked the SQ from tube mode the most with my F5(DIY) and oppo205. Just to add, the speakers are tekton DI's which are driven very well, particularly on the low end, by the F5.

The JFET came in handy during the record breaking summer heat, also streaming from bluesound node.

Have not had the urge to tube roll. In fact may be done with searching for the ultimate SQ. Although am planning on dabbling with an Aleph J in the near future;-)

The new Tung Sols are Russian from New Sensor.

i believe the Tung Sol is a reissued tube from Chinese origin... not that this makes it a bad tube, but not an original 6SN7 which is a beautiful thing ion the right circuit. I hope the current 6SN7 that Schitt sources is great as I will probably go the same route with the Freya +... by the way, I used some Tung Sol brown base EL34 tubes before and they are the stuff... mostly as they offer up a stout sound and last a long time...

I'm thinking about getting the Freya+ and diving into the world of tube pre-amplification. It's been interesting following all the tube and tube rolling threads. Have many of you tested the Freya+? I contacted Schiit, and they noted that they swapped out the tubes for the Freya+ now for JJ 6sn7. Schiit directly notes that "found these to be better performing than the Tung Sol or Sylvania tubes we were using before in every way." After reading all the tube rolling around Tung Sols, I'm curious if you guys have tested this, and agree that the JJ are just better than the Tung Sols, and other available options? No need to upgrade now over the stock JJ 6sn7? thanks!

I ended up with a Freya S which replaced my Adcom GFP-750.  I will post my comments here that I have posted in another forum:

Received my Freya S yesterday and hooked it up and let it run overnight so it would be nice and warmed up to compare this morning. For reference my system is as follows:

Jriver Id (Intel Nuc) Music Server
(Now using Roon to a SOTM 200)
Schiit Gungir Multibit with Gen 5 USB
Preamp- Was an Adcom GFP-750
NHT X1 Active Crossover
Sunfire Stereo Amp- Rebuilt last year
Magnepan 3.5 on Mye Stands (also rebuilt last year)
Rythmik E15 Subwoofer
Room Treatments from GIK Acoustics
Interconnects for the above are all XLR from Worlds Best Cables on Amazon, constructed with Mogami 2534 wire. I used Wireworld for my RCA connections for things like my turntable. Speaker cables are older Cardas Crosslink.

My ears are 46 years old and still work pretty well, but not as well as when they were 25.

I previously tried the original Freya pre-amp and returned it, as it sounded very veiled compared to my Adcom. I am now convinced there was something wrong with that unit. For my comparisons below, I matched volume levels as close as possible by ear and swapped cables between pre-amps while the music was paused and then would re-listen to section.

In comparison to my GFP-750, across the board the Freya has much better imaging, with voices being clearly defined in space. I have to wonder if my GFP-750 (despite a crackly volume knob) has wandered out of spec being nearly 20 years old.

Passive Comparison- The GFP-750 is a bit more lively sounding that the Freya S. The Freya was much better in the imaging department. The Freya definitely reduces the volume, even turned up all the way in passive compared to the Adcom. With the Adcom, when cranked up the volume knob is at 2:00-3:00 in passive mode, never needing full volume. On the Freya, I had it maxed at one point with a quietly recorded disc. This isn't all bad, I can stick it in that mode to prevent my wife from blowing speakers when she gets a hold of the volume knob (really, it has happened, twice, first to my MG-12s, then my MG2.7s. I told my wife the next time would cost a set of MG20s, that seems to have fixed the issue).

Active Comparison- Again, the Freya was the clear winner in imaging. The Adcom was slightly smoother in the upper midrange and lower treble, with the Freya S sounding just like it had a little glare in that area. I wouldn't take the glare as final, as the unit has less than 12 hours on it and no cycling. The high gain mode on the Freya sounds a bit punchier than the low gain.

Miscellaneous Regarding the Freya:

Passive v. Low Gain Active- Despite both having zero gain, when you switch from passive to active, the sound level increases about 3-4 db. This is true with XLR and RCA. I would expect them to be the same. The step from low gain to high gain sounds smaller than the specified 12 db.

Improvements from the original Freya- I really like the improvements from the original model. Specifically: 1) The pause and mute for 5 second going to high gain mode, no more oh crap moments. If you hit it by accident, you have time to hit the button again and go to passive. 2) The volume knob following with the remote. I like a visual reference and this provides it.

For me this is a keeper. At some point in the future, I might try the + and see what I think with the tubes, but for the time being, I am happy and find it a step forward from the Adcom. Please keep in mind, I am no "golden ear", just someone who likes listening to music and loves how Schiit and some other manufactures have brought back 1) great equipment for reasonable prices, and 2) the idea that this should be fun.

And my follow up:

So some interesting observations on the different modes and gain between the OG Saga and Freya S. I decided to pull out my SPL meter to check listening levels on my Saga for my desktop system, so I could note what volume positions net me 75db peak and 85db peak (using pink noise). As I will often be at my desk for hours at a time, I like to make sure I keep the volume below 75db peak. Keeping in mind I did this with a handheld SPL app on an Iphone X, so it may not be as accurate as if I ran it with room eq and the calibrated mic.

On the Saga OG there is about a 2 db gain between passive an active, 2 clicks on the volume gets you within .5 db.

The surprise was the Freya S (running from a Gungnir Multibit with balanced to a Sunfire amp with balanced). From passive to Gain 1, the Freya S jumps 7 db. From Gain 1 to Gain 4, it jumps another 13 db, or a total of 20db over passive. This is way above the rated 12db.

I then gave a listen to both amps in passive vs active modes having calibrated the volume positions for each to get equivalent sound levels (well within .5-1db). Properly matched with an SPL meter, rather than by ear for levels, the passive and active modes on both are far closer sounding than my prior observations. With the passive, it sounds just a bit more laid back, a bit easier sounding, a bit less dynamic. When I say a bit, I mean a bit. That said, level matched, the passive is growing on me. (I am really sensitive to glare, I have tennitus that I have suffered since a child from a loud explosion which is currently being exasperated by a German shepherd puppy that feels the need to periodically bark inside).

So an important reminder to all of us, with a cheap app it is worth checking to compare sound levels to make sure they are in fact close and differences being heard are not just overall loudness.

Hello,

 How would you describe the sound of the new Freya S?
Also, how is the Bass?

Thanks

I've recently found some NOS GE tubes here and there (mostly there), and having messed around with a bunch of 6SN7GTBs the GEs are my faves. My little Dennis Had SEP amp likes a little gain coming in so the tube output of my "original and possibly extremely valuable since they don't make this version anymore and it makes me very special and fortunate" Freya works nicely.

mcreyn,

I would try the Freya+.    I am running upgraded tubes (Sylvania NIB NOS for the gain section - with the Tung Sol at the buffer).   As I mentioned, I have a very sensitive amplifier section and the new Freya+ is dead quiet in the tube output for my system (Martin Logan Self Powered Purity).   Worst case, you get to try both SS and tube.   Have fun!   

Oh, I should note, I am looking at going from the GFP-750 because volume knob is scratchy in the right channel when using balanced and the remote is getting flaky.  The volume pot is still available, but other parts are becoming NLA (balance).  I am worried I will have a paperweight in a few more years.  

rrebello9,

Thanks for your comments about the Freya.  I have a GFP-750 and tried a Freya last year and was shocked at how much better the GFP-750 was, not subtle, but massive (in all modes).  I was not sure if the Freya I got was defective, and Schiit never advised it was when I returned it.  Seeing your post tells me that something was not right with my unit.  

Now the question is do I try the Freya +, or the Freya S?  I am leaning towards the S, as it has the Nexus active stage with no gain, and I traditionally run in passive on my GFP-750.  As I run balanced, I don't want (need) the extra 12db of gain from the tube section.  My system is a Schiit Gungir Multibit, Sunfire Stereo Amp, NHT active crossover, Magnapan 3.5s (factory rebuilt last year), Rythmik E15 subwoofer.  

On the clicks, they do not come through the audio system.   Volume increase is very smooth.   It is just the physical relays engaging for the stepped attenuation.   This is the highest quality volume control you can have.  Both CJ and ARC use stepped attenuation.   

I have owned both the Freya and Freya+.   The solid state on both the original and + are dead quiet and have excellent resolution.   The SS buffer is very good and in the class of the Adcom GFP-750 (Nelson Pass) and McCormack LD-2 that I have owned.  I sold these as I fell in love with tubes.   The best tube system I have owned to date is the ARC LS-26.   The original Freya was better than my Conrad Johnson ET-3SE.   The new Freya+ is a good as the LS-26.   The original Freya has a great balance and bloom.   With my system (Wyred4Sound Dac2 and self powered Martin Logan Purity Speakers), I loved the original Freya’s overall sound and bang for the buck but the noise floor and gain were a little too high with my very sensitive powered system (0.5 volts for full volume).   It was sweeter sounding than the CJ ET-3 SE so besting a $3500 Pre-amp.   The Freya+ is a nice step up.  It is Dead quiet with tubes.   Dynamics are greatly improved with the lower noise floor.  Resolution/Detail is also improved.  It is as good as the LS26.  If you are looking in the $1000 to $5500 and want to use tubes, you will be pleasantly surprised.  It is really good Schiit (lol).  

The clicks come from the unit and are about as loud as a socket wrench. I don’t move the volume much after sitting but the mute button comes in handy. So far the volume has been at 12o,clock with tube gain. 2oclock without.

 I have been running tube and ss amps through, also using different speakers. So far am very impressed for the money. It gets a little warm but nothing like class A amps can get. The tubes are what’s hottest and I believe they shut down if not in use? - maybe someone else can clarify this.

I don’t think there is an amp that won’t mate well with it melm. It has three modes including gain and buffer so you can’t go wrong. I would definitely put it in the Best Buy category. You have 2 weeks to return for refund. There are others here on Agon that have more experience with the original Freya and other preamps in general....

@recluse
Thanks for sharing.
What amp are you using it with?
Are the volume clicks a physical noise, or do they come through the speakers?
I've read that the Freya+ gets very warm.  Is it warm enough to be a concern about long term performance life?

Interesting about the LEDs being less bright after I nearly went insane trying to get them into the little holes after taking apart my original version Freya...trying to put green marker on the LEDs to dim them. The new Freya changed the way those LEDs are used. I guess now they cemented the thing shut? Or some sort of hidden fasteners? Too bad as I like to take things apart to see the innards...I also wonder if the tube gain jump is still to the degree it is with my Freya, as I noticed later versions had reduced the difference somehow...I'm used to it of course, and also wonder why people are surprised by the volume relay click after maybe 10,416 mentions about that here and there. Note to those considering a Freya...CLICKS...you get CLICKS...not to worry...

Will be interesting to see which mode you go after a few weeks of analysing and listening to all modes recluse.

BTW Where are you on the volume position for normal loud listening.

Cheers George

Received the Freya plus and so far am very impressed. The volume clicks are louder than I thought, almost like a ratchet wrench but that is really not a problem for me. I don't move the volume while listening to music%-/

The led lighting of the 3 modes is a little too dim imo. My only gripe.

Initially preferred passive and jfet but after several hours the tubes started sounding much better. Will have to continue to evaluate over 2 weeks.

No noise hiss or hum, and so far not noticing a loss of resolution  or transparency which was a main concern with preexisting oppo 205 direct to amps.

I’d be interested in hearing the + version

Can these globe fubes fit in a Freya? The spacing is tight.
https://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/treasure-globe-6sn7-se-pair-gf-limited-special-editi...