Schiit Freya+(Plus)

I have also found the bass too boomy with tubes and my Freya+. I have tried old Sylvania and old Russian tubes, all to no avail. At first, the novelty of switching back and forth from tubes to passive etc. was entertaining, not any more. Save your money on better tubes and upgrade your preamp like I’m about to do.

needlebrush, what upgrades are you considering?
I was enroute to Rogue RP-7 when waylaid by this intriguing budget
alternative. 

I had been happy since I got Freya last week.

Stock tubes are not bad but it sound slightly veiled and lacking refinement .

Thus I recommend you to try Nos tube like Sylvania GTB or vt231.

All quad Sylvania GTB made in 1955 sounds neutral with somewhat gentle treble.

I had paid 200$ for quad from reliable Ebay dealer.

RCA gray tube in gain stage and Syl GTB in buffer stage give warm and lush sound.

Sylvania vt 231 which had been my favorite for last 2 years in Line Magnetic 508 int amp give more transparent and clear details when used in gain stage.

Out of curiosity I had gone to all quad stock tubes.

I had run demagnetizaiton tracks twice ( 6min each) and started listening to Eva Cassidy's "Autumn Leaves, Songbird" , "The Trinity Session" by Cowboy Junky and Trittico by Fennel for classical music.

I had expected somewhat etched or bright sound out of JJ stock tubes.

Wow Freya with stock JJ tube sounds very dynamic with good details.

Compared with Nos tubes, it is slightly veiled and lacking refinement, but it is still quite listenable.

It will improve after break in.

My Freya (original version) has never sounded boomy with any of the piles of tubes I've used including the JJs, Tung Sols (new production), original Russian "mystery" tubes, Sylvania "Chrome domes," etc...I prefer NOS GEs in the thing and the sound is spectacular.

wolf_garcia, are your good results irrespective of input source (DAC or analog)? Tubes give me great improvement with DAC input, but sound overdramatic with phono & tuner inputs.

In any great system everything played on it sounds different from anything else, as it should...suffice to say that the sources are all equally superb sounding, and I've done an instant  comparison using the same music...streamer, LP, and CD playing the same thing and they're remarkably similar although the levels need adjustment for a comparison like that. My current rig is by far the most transparent I've owned. Not sure what "overdramatic" means to you. 

Thank you for an excellent idea. Will find a suitable test recording handy on both LP and CD, plus streamable from Tidal. (CD runs COAX into DAC rather than RCA into Freya -- a test within a test). Given any takeaways I can then experiment with NOS or other tubes as may be indicated.

I assume, Wolf, that you use the Freya tube output for all serious listening, irrespective of input source?

Yeah I use the tube setting all the time, except when simply switching it to see how my tubes are doing...a useful thing, but the tube setting is more detailed seemingly. The Dennis Had 12wpc amp I use really requires a hotter signal from the preamp to get it going so the tube setting’s gain is much appreciated for good synergy.

Ok I started a discussion, not realizing this one was here. I need a little advise, on valves. I’m not very familiar with the tube complement in the Freya +. I heard this unit off and on for over a month with stock valves.
I could see it was quite a little nugget. I’m a planar person, and lean towards the sound of RCAs and Telefunkens and the older GEs. I think the one I ordered is voiced with EH.

I certainly don’t want to spend another fortune on valves, figuring it all out.
I listen to a lot of Island music, salsa, flamingo, latin and smooth jazz.
Honestly though, I’ll listen to anything BUT Yoko Ono.. no Yoko Ono..

I’m a Mcintosh guy from birth, I was raised on Mac and JBL, and have a full complement of vintage Mac gear.. My C2500, I pulled out service for a repair. I side by sided this little SF+ with some pretty great gear. I still came back again and again for another listen.. I like it.. I use class a-z when it comes to amps. I’m a tube guy but not a snob. I like valves but, summer is coming, so it will be class d for 4 months or so. Cary, Mcintosh, VTL, I use them all.  I'm leaning towards Cary lately for valves.

Valve suggestions, that aren’t a bloody fortune. If your use to the sounds of the the above valves, what’s sonically close. Smooth top to bottom, but more MB, and MID forward. The highs gotta be clean, not bright, (Sylvania kind of bright).

Thanks

Regards

I'm a Freya+(no need to add the word "Plus" after Freya+) owner, and I've had it for several months now.  I've tried it with 3 different amps and 5 different pairs of speakers, plus 3 different sets of speaker cables and some interconnect changes.

The Schiit piece sounds really good with all of it.  I can hear the weaknesses of different speakers and cables.  But what you get with the Freya+ is what's in the music, it doesn't add lushness or bass.  It is the most transparent, detailed resolving pre I've had.

So the new owner that is complaining of lushness, you never described the rest of your system, so no one can really help you beyond generalities.  The brand/model of amp and speakers would be a big help.  

Right now it could simply be your preferences that are giving you the false impression of lushness.  Perhaps your old pre(we have no idea how recent your Freya acquisition is) was so sterile that the Freya is lush by comparison.  Or your speakers are too warm, or your amp, giving the impression of lushness.

At this point, there are simply too many variables to help you more than just in generalities.

This goes for needlebrush as well.  Too bassy?  The Freya does not add bass.  Perhaps its just outperforming your previous pre to such an extent that the bass is now noticeable.  Perhaps the Freya has a hotter signal than your old pre.  Just too many variables to offer any help.  Buying another pre may be just throwing money away when the next pre also has higher voltage output than whatever your old pre was.

213, I think you hit the nail on the proverbial head. I have over 600 hours listening to the Freya+ and could not agree more. In my case, the Freya+ exposed my lack of room treatments. Most of what I listen to is High Res from Qobuz and once I began to fully hear what was present in the material, it was easy to make needed corrections.

Is the freya+ better than the Prima Luna Dialogue premium preamp?

Not having compared the two sonically, I can't say. But if balanced operation is important to you, the Freya+ offers two balanced inputs as well as balanced output. There are other functional differences as well. So I would first compare the two functionally and aesthetically, and if you find no clear preference, then you can decide whether the Dialogue sounds 4x better than the Freya so as to justify the price difference.

IMO, much may depend on your listening preferences -- not just source material, but preferred sonic profile. The two preamps will sound different, but only you can say which you prefer. Both companies offer a test period allowing you to get at least a sense of this.

Ok I got the little Freya +. Delivery was fast. Looked good.
I took it out of the box voiced it, plumbed it and turned it on.

I couldn't select the input, via remote or manually on the machine.

I turn it off, make sure everything is right, check the connections,
AGAIN. Turn it back on, same thing, 3, 4, times. Then it powers
up and works. Magic...

THEN

It plays for 30 min or so and got so hot, the tubes shut down.

I walked over, I couldn't put my hand on the cover. LOL
That's hot, even for me.  It was at 20-30% volume.

I went to turn it down with the remote, it wouldn't volume all
the way down. So I turned it down, gently, it was stuck.

I used the remote again and it worked. BUT the valves were still off.

I turn the unit off, unplug, swap PC, to an all copper. Turn it back on
and it worked.

Everytime from that point on If I used the valves the volume would stick after about 20 min or so. It overheated once and shut down. That stopped. It sounded good. 

It went back, no problems so far.. I just lost my confidence for sure
on that one. They were quick to respond. Send a shipping label.
It was packed correctly. The box looked unharmed.

I used another one over a couple week period. Not a hitch..

Maybe in a couple months..I went back to a C20 Mac, No remote..
I like a remote..

Regards

@ oldhvymec

I had enjoyed my Freya + for three weeks without issue.

But I also noticed it runs hot.

Do you have good ventilation around it?

It shall not be under the shelf.

If you keep having problem, it is better to contact Schitt support.

They will reach you in a day.

Good luck.

Thomas

Regarding OP’s problem of Freya+ sounding too lush over the top.

I also found Freya lush but not over the top.

Stock tubes does not sound harsh but veiled.

If you spend 50$ per pair of Sylvania GTB tubes made in 1950’s from Ebay, then it will sound much more clearer.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Brown-Base-Sylvania-6SN7Gtb-6SN7-Tubes-Nice/264713608987?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225074%26meid%3Dc2913a290fd74f70a3b81000c93678dd%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D392416419311%26itm%3D264713608987%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109

Actually I ordered several tubes from this dealer at bargain but good quality.

You can try one pair in gain stage spending 20$.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Of-Sylvania-Chrome-Top-6SN7-GTB-Tubes/233501282345?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225074%26meid%3D045cb3a05ab74614888e43a9c01c578d%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D264713608987%26itm%3D233501282345%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109

One more link so that you can buy quad.




Good Luck!

Thomas

Definitely oldhvy got a defective unit. Though Schiit does warn rather prominently that these run HOT. Knowing that upfront, you wonder whether the four nicely separated 12AU7s in Rogue RP-7, running cooler but also taking 45 seconds to warm up, warrant the price differential. Glad to hear that trouble now resolved.

shkong, I guess whether lush, harsh, or veiled may depend on what tubes and source material are being played. Definitely ready to roll tubes. Sylvanias, NOS GEs, maybe Tung-Sols. Many users here have experimented and shared their insights, so thanks for the tips!

Not trying to get off the subject too much, here OP.

The unit was setting on a slotted grate, Lots of air all the way around.

Ambient temp was 65-75.

When I started monitoring with a temp gun, it stayed right at 96-7 F.
The valves 145-150 F. Stayed pretty constant after the first overheat issue.

I was thinking a valve had something inside the glass that may have moved in transit, flipped upside down a couple time.. Duno..

I should have tested the valves, but I was in a bit of a panic ;-)

Customer service and support both contacted me QUICK.
Pleased with the response for sure..

The unit sure had a nice feel, weight, and look. Crap, I’m gonna order another one, pretty sure. I really wanted to tinker and I like a remote.

As far as 12XXX valves, I've used them so long, and they're in everything I use. Mac, VTL, Cary.  Easy to roll and a TON to choose from. Do they run Cooler? LOL  They run a lot cooler 1/2 the heat. Even my hot rodded C20 is not close to the heat.. of the Freya...

Back to soldering.

Regards

Not sure if it was mentioned, but Freya+ only gets hot when in tube mode.  And the main source of heat at that point is the voltage regulators, to the left of the tubes in the case.  The hotness should take over an hour to develop, and it’s never been too hot to leave my hand on it.  It also doesn’t get as hot as it did at first.
 
At least I think that’s what they are, (stepping the volts up to 300?). I’m not the most technical person.  Anyway, it’s my best audio purchase in the last 5 years.  

On a cold night I can use my "Classic Original Version" Freya to warm my hands by placing them directly on the amp (one at a time since my hands are HUGE), and although I was initially a little concerned by the heat even with plenty of room around the thing, it's performed its tasks perfectly for a couple of years now...a great sounding humless, microphonicless, clean preamp. 

I've run mine 8 hours today and while it does get warm, no need to move my hand either.  I've been so impressed with this pre  I have decided to use the Aegir for my second system after it was graded "A" on the Stereophile list.  Frankly they could ask for twice the price and I would still buy it again.  I run the Tube mode 100% of the time.  

Kudos to @wolf_garcia for three things.

One, for sharing the experience of dealing with Freya tube heat and for keeping Freya in his system when so many fancy alternatives have been out there beckoning for so long. Thanks to his encouragement, replacing Freya is now my lowest audio system upgrade priority.

Two, for both knowing and exemplifying in one sentence the precise difference between the contractive "it's" (it has) and the possessive" its" (belonging to it) forms of a three-letter assemblage which for most -- here I include even contemporary lexicographers, who seem to have given up -- has become either incomprehensible or enraging. 

Three, for the highly relatable "huge hands" perspective. (No, I'm not yet conceding that "relatable" is a real word, just that it seems to have displaced its predecessors and isn't inherently ugly or illogical). Come winter, I'll remember the Freya tubes when the big old hands stiffen and the therm might be lowered a notch or two.

And to @phcollie for ratifying One. Soldiering on thanks to you guys.

Another +1 for the Freya+. Mine is the original (with the tubes), I've had it for a few years, it gets pretty warm, it sounds wonderful run thru the tubes, I've had no bad surprises. I love it. 
Sorry to hear some owner's experiences aren't as good.

Forgot to ask: how many Freya rollers are using different 6SN7s for gain and buffer stages? For those doing so, does it matter, and how so?

I've have the original Freya for about a year and a half now and love the sound of tubes. This is my first tube preamp and I've had an issue that started about 9 months of using it. I have a noticeable pop in the left channel when I turn the volume up to about what I consider the 9oclock position. Believe me I tried switching every cable tube (left-right, right- left) and it still happens still occurs. Now to let you know when I switch L-R, R-L the pop comes out of the right channel. I sent it in to 
Freya and got it back telling me they could not simulate the problem. Got it back and it was ok for about a week and a half. I by no means don't like this pre or Schiit I will have to live with it because Im not going to pay any more shipping. This is not a rant, but maybe someone has an idea.

Do you mean when you switch the interconnect cables the pop switches sides?If so it's a loose connection in the cable.

I will try different cables, but I believe I tried that but I tried so many things now I'm not sure.

I've had a Freya+ driven by monoblock vidars for about a month now.  Loving it.  In researching the Freya I heard many reviewers commenting on how if you tap the top of the pre-amp you can hear it through your speakers.  I do the same and can't hear a thing.  Anyone else experience this? 

Just tried the same to verify, and I also hear nothing. My theory is it depends on whether your tubes have been tailored to avoid microphonics. Definitely a good idea with the relatively fragile little Freya, which unlike its Rogue and Prima Luna functional equivalents, is not built like a brick s*** house. (As how could it be at the price).

There have been some posts here and there for years about the "microphony of the tubed Freya, but I've had lots of different tubes in mine and have never had a tube display microphonics (I've had microphonic tubes in guitar amps over the years and I always replace them). I prefer some tubes to others of course, but even the original Russian tubes were fine...a bit boring but fine.

Update on tube rolling of Freya+.

After using Russian 68ns made in 1978 tube for a while at gain stage, I switched to RCA gray bottle 4 days ago keeping Sylvania vt231 at buffer stage.

With RCA gray bottle at gain stage, it sound round and full almost like analog.

I enjoy " I left my heart in San Francisco" .

It remind me of my old days.

I had lived in Berkeley hill overlooking Golden Gate bridge from 1984 to 1987.

The only missing thing is that RCA gray seems to give slightly less details than 68ns.


Then about 2 days ago, I replaced Rca gray bottle with Kenrad vt231.

Wow this is an endgame combination.

It sound full and sweet with enough air.

"Cry me a river" by Diana Krall sounds so emotional that I do not need to spend more time on tube rolling on Freya+.



Kenrad vt231 at gain stage and Sylvania vt231 at buffer stage leave nothing to be desired.

Wow. A definitive answer. You have saved me years of fiddling. Off to the tube races! Thanks so much for sharing.

Although I like Kenrad and Syl vt 231 combo as end game,

you can also have Russian 6n8s to use at gain stage since it give more lively sound.

If you switch between Kenrad and 6n8s, it is kind of having two different pre.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/QUAD-FOUR-Matched-Balanced-Russian-6N8S-6SN7-double-triode-TUBE-NEW-NOS/312402083888?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Can someone tell me which side is the gain and which side is the buffer? All this time, I was under the impression that I have to have all four matched tubes. I have a few pairs of NOS tube but with different brand. Which side make the most impact on the sound so I can put the best pair there? I'm a newbie.

Right two tubes  are gain, left tubes are buffer.

In theory, gain tubes shall have more effect but in reality, both gain and buffer have almost same effect on the sound.

You do not need to use same quad tubes.

The best thing is to experiment yourself to find the best sound to your taste.

Schiit tells me you will have higher distortion and higher output impedance if not using matched quad (also if using NOS Sylvanias or GEs in place of new production JJ or Tung-Sol). I will of course listen for myself as shk and wolf-g have done with good results. Just reporting the Schiit position. As we all agree, the stock tubes are not bad at all. Yet definitely tweakable with time and patience. 

"If you switch between Kenrad and 6n8s, it is kind of having two different pre."  

Most interesting!

I’ve owned an original Freya for several years, and have enjoyed it very much.  However, I’ve had to send it back to Schiit two times for repair, though service was excellent.  Overall, wonderful preamp for the money, with excellent functionality and sound quality.

Thanks for sharing your tube results, Thomas, I've been wavering on rolling tubes because I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, so to speak.  

I love the transparency and air of the Freya+, but have wondered about tube improvements.  Another reviewer on youtube mentioned Sylvania tubes being a great option for the Freya.  

NOS Sylvania "chrome domes" are great tubes and easy to find. I have a pile in my tube stash and they're a close second to NOS GEs when exposed to my addled brain.

I've been laying off the audio purchases, but am waiting for the Schiit Celebration 10 Year Anniversary sale.  At least I hope they'll do it, they had mentioned this several months ago, but that was before Covid and the current unrest.  

Their B stock page is empty, always a good sign.  But after that I'll be shopping for tubes.

Having owned the Freya+ now for about 8 months and being locked down without TV (nothing worth watching, mostly lies and propaganda).. I’ve spent considerable time using the Freya and upgrading my system in all areas.. The versatility of the Freya is fabulous for testing new gear.. The stepped ladder attenuation used is very revealing and transparent. just having the passive attenuation option puts the Freya in a class by itself..  The tube section is also very revealing of the tubes being used..  Mine came with the JJ’s which I found to be dynamic but harsh especially on top..  I tried the 
new tung sol tubes and found them better in every area over the JJ.
The best was yet to come when I used some Sylvania chrome tops, I lost a bit of resolution, but gained air and flesh. The Freya is very revealing of the tubes used, yet gives no noise of its own, very quiet clean background.. My previous preamp was a balanced tube design costing more than 5x the cost of the Freya.. The Freya holds its own and is more versatile, but lacks the top end refinement of the costlier pre. Which could possibly be fixed with tube rolling..
I find myself using the passive mode for a more accurate sound.. Better for classical as it doesn’t “exaggerate” the sound.. 
I would love to separate the power supply from the main unit.. I bet it would put the Freya in another class up.. 
you have to admire the minimalist approach to the design..  yet yielding useable options without complexity..  
kudos to Jason and mike for creating this great product at a very reasonable, bargain of a price preamp !

I've had a freya + for about 4 months now. I mainly use the passive mode. Listen mostly to acoustic and classical guitar, after an hour or so I use the tube output for a real treat and listen to my classic rock. 
It's replaced a Yamaha cx-1000 pre and I couldn't be more happy. I had about 3 times the budget to purchase a  pre but was talked into this one, possibly the best purchase I've made. 

As mentioned above.. The money I saved with the Freya +, I used to buy a Pass XA25 amp..  great combo! 

I bought a pagoda balanced and some AQ water xlr's with what I saved. 
What a cool device. 

I’m strongly considering a Freya + to run my Calibre XD’s full range through the internal amps.

What XLR cables are a good value to use with this pre?

Try the blue jean ones, there a good value. I swapped out my AQ ones with lesser priced ones and I couldn't tell a difference. Many many post on cables, I wouldn't go down that road.  

I just bought some Blue Jeans RCA to XLR cables and they are nice and really economical. I would be inclined to get fully balanced XLR's from them as well unless there is a better, reasonably priced alternative.