Schiit Freya+(Plus)

needlebrush, what upgrades are you considering?
I was enroute to Rogue RP-7 when waylaid by this intriguing budget
alternative. 

wolf_garcia, are your good results irrespective of input source (DAC or analog)? Tubes give me great improvement with DAC input, but sound overdramatic with phono & tuner inputs.

Thank you for an excellent idea. Will find a suitable test recording handy on both LP and CD, plus streamable from Tidal. (CD runs COAX into DAC rather than RCA into Freya -- a test within a test). Given any takeaways I can then experiment with NOS or other tubes as may be indicated.

I assume, Wolf, that you use the Freya tube output for all serious listening, irrespective of input source?

Not having compared the two sonically, I can't say. But if balanced operation is important to you, the Freya+ offers two balanced inputs as well as balanced output. There are other functional differences as well. So I would first compare the two functionally and aesthetically, and if you find no clear preference, then you can decide whether the Dialogue sounds 4x better than the Freya so as to justify the price difference.

IMO, much may depend on your listening preferences -- not just source material, but preferred sonic profile. The two preamps will sound different, but only you can say which you prefer. Both companies offer a test period allowing you to get at least a sense of this.

Definitely oldhvy got a defective unit. Though Schiit does warn rather prominently that these run HOT. Knowing that upfront, you wonder whether the four nicely separated 12AU7s in Rogue RP-7, running cooler but also taking 45 seconds to warm up, warrant the price differential. Glad to hear that trouble now resolved.

shkong, I guess whether lush, harsh, or veiled may depend on what tubes and source material are being played. Definitely ready to roll tubes. Sylvanias, NOS GEs, maybe Tung-Sols. Many users here have experimented and shared their insights, so thanks for the tips!

Kudos to @wolf_garcia for three things.

One, for sharing the experience of dealing with Freya tube heat and for keeping Freya in his system when so many fancy alternatives have been out there beckoning for so long. Thanks to his encouragement, replacing Freya is now my lowest audio system upgrade priority.

Two, for both knowing and exemplifying in one sentence the precise difference between the contractive "it's" (it has) and the possessive" its" (belonging to it) forms of a three-letter assemblage which for most -- here I include even contemporary lexicographers, who seem to have given up -- has become either incomprehensible or enraging. 

Three, for the highly relatable "huge hands" perspective. (No, I'm not yet conceding that "relatable" is a real word, just that it seems to have displaced its predecessors and isn't inherently ugly or illogical). Come winter, I'll remember the Freya tubes when the big old hands stiffen and the therm might be lowered a notch or two.

And to @phcollie for ratifying One. Soldiering on thanks to you guys.

Forgot to ask: how many Freya rollers are using different 6SN7s for gain and buffer stages? For those doing so, does it matter, and how so?

Just tried the same to verify, and I also hear nothing. My theory is it depends on whether your tubes have been tailored to avoid microphonics. Definitely a good idea with the relatively fragile little Freya, which unlike its Rogue and Prima Luna functional equivalents, is not built like a brick s*** house. (As how could it be at the price).

Wow. A definitive answer. You have saved me years of fiddling. Off to the tube races! Thanks so much for sharing.

Schiit tells me you will have higher distortion and higher output impedance if not using matched quad (also if using NOS Sylvanias or GEs in place of new production JJ or Tung-Sol). I will of course listen for myself as shk and wolf-g have done with good results. Just reporting the Schiit position. As we all agree, the stock tubes are not bad at all. Yet definitely tweakable with time and patience. 

"If you switch between Kenrad and 6n8s, it is kind of having two different pre."  

Most interesting!

@swordsman1 As I have told others above, Schiit itself is your best resource for info on impedance matching or any other question. Just tell them you want to match it with the Proton monoblocks. Schiit website has a handy email link and they will reply within 24 hours. So don't ask me, ask the experts. 

With all due respect, I believe your question has been answered above.

Schiit says use matched pair on both gain and output pairs. Others say not necessarily. Just be aware of impedance mismatches. 

Experiment. Rolling is easy with the Freya+. 
You don't need links to retailers. They are named in the posts above and any third grader can find them on a Google search.

My advice, start out with the stock tubes (JJs last I knew), get a good fix on the sound with familiar material, then try Tung-Sols, right then left, then move to GE or whatever. Bad impedance mismatches will probably announce themselves.
BTW, one of the original JJs in my unit went south after a couple weeks. Schiit said move it from buffer to gain, I did, and the defect was no longer noticeable. 
But then soon after, I rolled the whole batch and am still doing so when the urge strikes.

In my experience there is no easier, cheaper preamp to roll tubes on than the Freya+. Seems to be designed for the purpose. So have at it. Read the posts above and remember nobody will have the same experiences given different rooms, different connected equipment, and different musical preferences. There is no magic answer for YOU. Read the tips above and proceed accordingly. You will know it when you find it.
 

Definitely you are overthinking, just as I was doing when I started this thread.

Like your current combo idea. Give it two weeks and see if it leaves you wanting. If you find something missing, then roll, roll, roll. The possibilities are endless and the enjoyment lies more in the process than in the end result -- assuming there could ever be an "end." As ever, it's about the journey, not the destination. 

Thanks for the report. Never tried the Silvanias myself as there were tales of excessive brightness and impedance troubles. But you never know until you try, and it's not that expensive. Plainly you're right about build quality. My own approach has been to get along with the Freya, which is fun and easy, while upgrading other components, cables, conditioner, then finally decide on my "forever" tube pre. So far, so good, and I'm due for another roll now that the sound of newer gear is stabilizing after burn-in. 

IMO, you will not be satisfied with super-cheap XLR interconnects in a high fidelity sound system. At least not if you compare them to much higher grade gear made by Audioquest, Pangea, or a great many others specializing in audio playback. You can easily get much higher quality without breaking the bank. For example, 

AudioQuest Red River XLR to XLR Analog Audio Interconnect Cables - 3.28' (1m) - Pair is a good high-end entry level choice.

Now, whether XLR is "better" than RCA, there are no absolute rules. XLR (balanced) does have certain advantages such as higher gain, as well as theoretical advantages. I am running fully balanced from source components to Freya+ to power amps, but not everyone does this and it is hardly necessary. Decent quality RCA cables are generally less costly than XLR, for obvious reasons.

You can email Schiit directly on their website contact link. I had a bad tube and was told to reverse the two tube pairs. I did so, and the fault was corrected. A bad tube on one side may not sound bad on the other side.

Of course, since then I have rolled in other tubes and not had a repeat, but it is surely only a matter of time before this recurs. When it does, I will start by reversing the tube pair to see if the problem clears up.

No buzzing here as yet. When doing several consecutive evenings of serious listening, I leave the tubes on overnight with output turned low, then muted, with only FM radio as source. On rising next day, quiet background, no buzzing notable, even if I put in hearing aids (which have become indispensable for music listening to my old concert-battered ears).

I am running balanced in from DAC and out to amp, but doubt that would explain absence of buzzing. Not hard to find out, though. First swap the tubes, and if that doesn't help, it's never a bad idea moving to XLR if your input/output components support it.

BTW, my view of the Freya+ is like @alymere's; A perfect rest stop enroute to a "definitive" contemporary tube preamp-centered system, and now becoming the weak link in my chain as other components have been upgraded.    

First thing, EMAIL SCHIIT using the email form on their website. Bet they will tell you XLR is not the solution to tube mode buzz. Could be a tube not fully seated. Or a defective tube receptacle. Or . . .

Meanwhile, always turn Freya volume to 0, then mute, and put amp in standby mode before powering off Freya. Don’t put your speakers at risk!

 

@swordsman1 Not a pairing I have tried or could speculate on. Just make sure the output tubes used on the Freya maintain a low impedance. Whether you like the match or not, it will certainly be different.

Linlai is a new Chinese tube which I have not tried. Sounds like those you tried have the wrong base for this preamp and require an adapter. Did the shop not tell you this?