For me, sending DAC input through tube output clearly adds warmth, bloom, punch, musicality, presence. However, when used with analog inputs (TT, FM, cassette), the tubes (current stock JJ 6SN7 supplied with the unit) sound too lush, rather over the top, sometimes frankly bloated. I mean at equal volume (not volume SETTING).
Despite balanced output to power amp, the SS buffer stage sounds inferior to pure passive mode. So it's tubes with DAC, passive with analog, SS buffer with nothing.
Questions: (1) does my experience sound typical? (2) should I experiment with rolling Tung-Sols or other recommended upgrade tube? (3) does any of this bespeak some peculiarity elsewhere in the chain?
Just a quick question and correct me if I am wrong please as I am looking for pass through solution for a secondary system in my basement. Very few pre amps have a "pass through" function as I've noticed and money is an issue for the second system.
So when the Freya+ is switched to Passive mode that basically means its on board volume control is disabled and the volume is controlled from the source like a DAC or what ever else may be plugged into it? Its basically like the unity Gain in my ARC-LS26? If this is the case then there would be no issue's in using the freya as a pass through for a home theatre receiver to utilize the power amp for the 2 front L+R speakers?
No, the volume control on the Freya+ continues to work in the passive mode -- you just bypass the gain stages. Of course, the passive mode only offers unity gain. You will also lose the ability to convert single ended input into a differential output if you run it in passive.
I recently purchased a B-stock Freya + preamp from Schiit as I wanted a balanced preamp to work in a second system. Right now, I have it connected in my primary system in place of my Audio Research LS7 tube line stage. The Freya + came with JJ 6SN7 tubes, but I already had a matched pair of OS GE gray plate side getter 6SN7’s and a matched pair of new production Tung Sol 6SN7’s. I installed the GE’s into the voltage gain stage (right side) and the Tung Sol’s into the buffer stage (left side). I used some really nice socket savers from Eurotubes in Portland, OR. These are quality constructed socket savers using octal tube bases with Micalex octal sockets. The socket savers allow me to remove the tubes easily from the Freya + sockets. I connected my SMSL SU-8 v. 2 DAC with Mogami 2549 balanced XLR cables to the Freya +, and then used another pair of the Mogami balanced cable from the Freya + to a Pass DIY Aleph J amp’s balanced inputs. The Aleph J drives my modified Klipsch Forte II’s. I started out listening with the JFET solid state buffer mode for the first two hours. I was really impressed with the black background, tonality and large, deep soundstage. Then I switched to tube differential mode and allowed the preamp to play for 20-30 minutes before any critical listening. There was no hum, no pops or crackles or any noise for that matter. What I heard was a an even larger soundstage with with a palpable presence. Now I understand others who have reported hearing the Freya + cast a holographic sound stage. The separation was outstanding and I was impressed by the rich, “almost creamy” tone. It definitely sounds different from my ARC LS7 line stage. They are both great line stage preamps, and it’s too early to draw clear comparisons. What I can say is that I really like the balanced connections from my DAC to preamp to power amp. The background is black and allows me to hear subtle details and nuanced tonality. The preamp does get rather warm in tube mode, but not scorching hot. In completely passive mode or JFET buffer mode, the amp does not get warm at all. For background music listening, the passive or JFET buffer modes are great sounding and will not wear out the tubes. For active listening, I do prefer with the tube mode. My experience really mirrors what most reviewers have positively written about the Freya +. I am not sure why some people have had problems with tubes or noise. The Freya + came as advertised offering tremendous value for a $900 preamp.
With all due respect, I believe your question has been answered above.
Schiit says use matched pair on both gain and output pairs. Others say not necessarily. Just be aware of impedance mismatches.
Experiment. Rolling is easy with the Freya+.
You don't need links to retailers. They are named in the posts above and any third grader can find them on a Google search.
My advice, start out with the stock tubes (JJs last I knew), get a good fix on the sound with familiar material, then try Tung-Sols, right then left, then move to GE or whatever. Bad impedance mismatches will probably announce themselves.
BTW, one of the original JJs in my unit went south after a couple weeks. Schiit said move it from buffer to gain, I did, and the defect was no longer noticeable.
But then soon after, I rolled the whole batch and am still doing so when the urge strikes.
In my experience there is no easier, cheaper preamp to roll tubes on than the Freya+. Seems to be designed for the purpose. So have at it. Read the posts above and remember nobody will have the same experiences given different rooms, different connected equipment, and different musical preferences. There is no magic answer for YOU. Read the tips above and proceed accordingly. You will know it when you find it.
There are so many Tung Sol tubes and GE tubes. Not to mention some GE tubes are from the 1950. Is everyone using tubes from the 50s or from current years?
Definitely you are overthinking, just as I was doing when I started this thread.
Like your current combo idea. Give it two weeks and see if it leaves you wanting. If you find something missing, then roll, roll, roll. The possibilities are endless and the enjoyment lies more in the process than in the end result -- assuming there could ever be an "end." As ever, it's about the journey, not the destination.
I like the preamp. I'm happy with the sound. Ditto on the Sylvania GTB. Paid $100 for a NOS pair and they pretty much transformed the preamp. They now come with Electro Harmonics tubes instead of JJ. My only complaint with Schiit equipment is it's built to price point and the RCA inputs are not as durable if you like to change cables a lot like I do. I've had problems with the RCA inputs coming loose or losing contact. But then look at the price. For a couple hundred more you might like the Vincent 32 model preamp. Personally, I wasn't that happy with the sound of the JJ or the EH tubes.
Thanks for the report. Never tried the Silvanias myself as there were tales of excessive brightness and impedance troubles. But you never know until you try, and it's not that expensive. Plainly you're right about build quality. My own approach has been to get along with the Freya, which is fun and easy, while upgrading other components, cables, conditioner, then finally decide on my "forever" tube pre. So far, so good, and I'm due for another roll now that the sound of newer gear is stabilizing after burn-in.
Another question about XLR cable vs RCA cable. Does it sound any better if I use XLR cable? I have never use XLR cables before and XLR cables seem to be very popular for everyone.
IMO, you will not be satisfied with super-cheap XLR interconnects in a high fidelity sound system. At least not if you compare them to much higher grade gear made by Audioquest, Pangea, or a great many others specializing in audio playback. You can easily get much higher quality without breaking the bank. For example,
AudioQuest Red River XLR to XLR Analog Audio Interconnect Cables - 3.28' (1m) - Pair is a good high-end entry level choice.
Now, whether XLR is "better" than RCA, there are no absolute rules. XLR (balanced) does have certain advantages such as higher gain, as well as theoretical advantages. I am running fully balanced from source components to Freya+ to power amps, but not everyone does this and it is hardly necessary. Decent quality RCA cables are generally less costly than XLR, for obvious reasons.
Is there a way to tell if you bought bad tubes when you put them in the Freya? I mean, what if one of the tubes is not working, will the Freya let you know if one of the tubes is a bad tube?
You can email Schiit directly on their website contact link. I had a bad tube and was told to reverse the two tube pairs. I did so, and the fault was corrected. A bad tube on one side may not sound bad on the other side.
Of course, since then I have rolled in other tubes and not had a repeat, but it is surely only a matter of time before this recurs. When it does, I will start by reversing the tube pair to see if the problem clears up.
Any of you hear a buzzing sound coming out of the speakers when the music if not playing. Turn down the music all the way down or mute the music and put your ear closer to the tweeter, can you hear a buzzing sound?
Does that mean I have bad tubes? Or do I need to buy some XLR cables to make the buzzing sound go away?
I hear no buzzing; I use the Freya+ with a headphone-based system so if I had some buzzing, I would hear it on the phones.
I woke up around 3AM last night and heard some clicking sounds that seemed to originate from the Freya+. It had been turned off about 2 hours prior. That seemed odd. I just woke up and played some music on the headphones until 6AM. I will keep an ear open for this mysterious clicking sound.
I have owned the Saga+, Freya+ and (currently) the Prima Luna Dialog Premium. The Schiit pre-amps were fantastic and served my needs for a couple of years. During that time I woudn’t have heard a difference in an A/B comparison between Schiit or PL or anything else because I hadn’t spent enough time on focused listening. When I started hearing more detail I upgraded everything piece by piece until the Freya+ was finally the weak point. Tube rolling helped a little but not enough for me. The build quality of the PL is superb so I took a chance and I couldn’t be happier. How is it better? In every way you can imagine. But that is just in my system (which you can look up in Agon virtual systems), YMMV.
I’m a die-hard Schiit fan :) I bought almost everything in the entire catalog at first and I will never part with my Yggdrasil(A2+Unison), Vali2, or Modi Multibit. The rest has been superseded and sold off to inspire others.
No buzzing here as yet. When doing several consecutive evenings of serious listening, I leave the tubes on overnight with output turned low, then muted, with only FM radio as source. On rising next day, quiet background, no buzzing notable, even if I put in hearing aids (which have become indispensable for music listening to my old concert-battered ears).
I am running balanced in from DAC and out to amp, but doubt that would explain absence of buzzing. Not hard to find out, though. First swap the tubes, and if that doesn't help, it's never a bad idea moving to XLR if your input/output components support it.
BTW, my view of the Freya+ is like @alymere's; A perfect rest stop enroute to a "definitive" contemporary tube preamp-centered system, and now becoming the weak link in my chain as other components have been upgraded.
The odd thing is that the other 2 sound modes are dead silent. But when I switch to the Tube mode, I get the buzzing sound.
I will order 2 pairs of the XLR cables and see that will get rid of the buzzing sound.
Another question I have is when you turn off the power of the Freya, I heard a loud thud or boom sound coming from the speakers. I hope my speakers are not damage. Are you suppose to turn off the amplifier first before you turn off the power from the Freya? I thought my speakers last night just blew up. ha ha ha
First thing, EMAIL SCHIIT using the email form on their website. Bet they will tell you XLR is not the solution to tube mode buzz. Could be a tube not fully seated. Or a defective tube receptacle. Or . . .
Meanwhile, always turn Freya volume to 0, then mute, and put amp in standby mode before powering off Freya. Don’t put your speakers at risk!
Very similar experiences, I have the modi multibit, Yggdrasil, Loki, Magni, Freya+, Aegir And others I gave as gifts.
the Yggy is a permanent fixture in my main rig.. The Freya+ sits on the shelf, the others are in my 2nd setup. While Schiit makes some great gear and value, They can become a weak point in some upper end rigs.
Hi I ordered my Freya+. I have an XLR dac output and a SE power amp. I understand Tung sol is good enough but I will try Linlai Elite E-6sn7 quad when I want to spend 400 dollar on tubes. If it sounds good I'll tell
@Hickamore I would like to purchase the Freya plus to replace the Proton AP-400 PRO preamp (SS) currently paired with the Proton dual mono AA-461 PRO amplifier(SS) , to give more finesse, detail and clarity to the sound. What do you think? Do I need to be careful of anything in particular?
Thanks, Pietro
@swordsman1 Not a pairing I have tried or could speculate on. Just make sure the output tubes used on the Freya maintain a low impedance. Whether you like the match or not, it will certainly be different.
"Just make sure the output tubes used on the Freya maintain a low impedance."
Could you please explain me better?
I am not well versed in technical matters. Maybe I need to show you the features of the AA-461 PRO?
Thank you,
Pietro
@swordsman1As I have told others above, Schiit itself is your best resource for info on impedance matching or any other question. Just tell them you want to match it with the Proton monoblocks. Schiit website has a handy email link and they will reply within 24 hours. So don't ask me, ask the experts.
I was excited and went to purchase the LinlaiE6sn7. Brought my Freya + amp along. But the Linlais could not fit the sockets fully. There was a slight gap. The tubes were not flushed in. I left the shop empty handed. Darn. Any one managed to fit the E Linlai 6sn7 fully into the Freya+ sockets? If you have, pl do let me know how as I really like these tubes.
Linlai is a new Chinese tube which I have not tried. Sounds like those you tried have the wrong base for this preamp and require an adapter. Did the shop not tell you this?
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