I am considering Vandersteen Treo CT's for purchase. In doing some research on them I read they are very sensitive to room placement in order to achieve their best performance. I've some limitations on where I could place them in my listening room. My listening room is approximately 13'x22' with a cathedral ceiling roughly 16' high from the floor in the center of the room. eight foot high where it meets the front and rear walls.. The speakers will be located on the front long wall equally spaced from the center of that wall. There are a fair amount of furnishings in the room, furniture, built in bookshelves, a library table etc.
My first questions is, what is the closest I could place the Treo's from the wall, I think "Johnny from AudioConnections" said, you might be able to place them as close as "seven to fourteen inches" from the wall, but I can't find the reference. Somebody else said wall placement was okay as it would reinforce the bass output, which the Treo would benefit from. I thought you were supposed to not put ported speakers near a wall, but these being bottom ported maybe it doesn't matter.
The second question is, what would you guess to be the minimum distance they need to be from one another? I have a four foot wide flat screen television centered on the front wall. I would love to be able to place the Treo's on either side of the flat screen, with the outside edges of the Treo's being seven feet apart, but am afraid this might be too close together. I could place them another two feet or so apart, but the speaker on the right side would then partially block the view of a built-in in 120 gallon aquarium which would not be ideal, but doable.
What do you think? I would appreciate your experience and guidance here. Thanks
I would contact JohnnyR at Audio Connection about this. He knows as much about Vandersteen's as anyone. You can also download the manual from the Vandersteen website. Good Luck, the Treo's are great speakers.
My Treo CTs are in a 13'6" wide, 18 ' long room. I tweaked their placement for over a year till I got it just right. So here goes: in my room the speakers are 26" from the side walls to the outside of the cabinet measured at the top of the speaker. They are placed 32.25' from the front wall to the top back of each speaker.
I did not have to optimize for bass power as I have two 2wq subs.
If you want to know how to set them up to optimize bass response call John Rutan at Audio Connection in Verona, NJ. The only person more schooled in Vandys is Richard Vandersteen. He will happily advise you!
All the best! You selected a great pair of speakers. Let John help you optimize their performance!
Joey54, thanks for suggesting the manual download. I figured out the answer between it and the site FAQ section. Mr. Vandersteen said the speakers were designed to go within 12" of the wall, and it appears no closer than 1/3rd of the distance between the side walls if I understood correctly.
Mental and hifiman51, appreciate your quick input and help in solving this issue.
I have 16 ft ceilings in a large space for my Vandersteens. Understand that speakers are designed with 8 ft ceilings in mind. In the end, it worked out fine, with the speakers less than 3 ft from the back wall with a slight toe in. Be mindful that the speakers are sensitive to having the tilt back be exactly the same to take advantage of the time alignment.
I strongly agree with Stringreen on his last post. One of the things that is most prevalent with Vandersteen owners that are dissatisfied with the sound is that they fail to take the measurements required to get the speakers rake angle relative to their seating position correct. Each Vandersteen speaker that I have owned tells you in the manual what that speakers tweeter center is if the speaker is placed level. If your center of ear seating position is different then you have to adjust the tilt to account for it.
You've gotten some good advice, so far. I will second/third having Johnny's opinion regarding placement.
For me, my Treo's are in a rather unusual spot- at near the middle of two rooms (roughly 18x11, speakers at 9 feet in along the long wall and about 7 feet apart). Though not ideal (Hey, I have to live here), I get great sound reproduction, and they look great, too. Lastly, I would say Vandersteen speakers aren't hard to position, but a good installer like John Rutan will make it work. Bob
stringreen, thanks for your advice. I've got to place whatever speaker I decide on close as possible to the wall behind it. Wish I had three feet to play with.
jackd, thank you for the advice.
gdnrbob, your placement sounds similar to what I need to do along my 22' long wall. The closeness to that wall I need might well rule out the Vandersteens as a possible choice for me. They are fairly deep speakers compared to something like the shallower Magico A3's that I could place ten inches from the wall per Magico.
(((The closeness to that wall I need might well rule out the Vandersteens as a possible choice for me. ))) Mike We installed hundreds of speakers in many rooms and none have been as easy to place as the Vandersteen Treo CTs and Quatros CTs Yesterday in an elegant home we installed Treo Cts 6 inches out from the wall with great results. These speakers were designed for this. As for placement as long as you perform the correct tilt back, reading the well-written manual you will get there.
(((They are fairly deep speakers compared to something like the shallower Magico A3's ))) M 44 H x 11 D x 9.25 V 43 H x 15 D x 10 FYI The 10Inch wide spec is at the bottom of the speaker and it' progressively narrows toward the top in order to allow unwanted baffle diffraction allowing the speakers to image and disappear better. Live music was Vandersteen's reference. A Pulse with a microphone diaphragm + / - a phase and time correct design has all its drivers going the same direction in sync.
Steep order designs have some drivers going forward while others backwards to that same pulse.
As mentioned above its important with a Vandersteen that tilt back alignment be correct this is easily performed by following the chart in the well-written owners manual for your ear height off the ground / distance to the front of the speakers. Once done correctly it's obvious what takes place and why the love for the speaker continues. Best, JohnnyR
Johnny, thank you for responding. That is closer than the manual on the Vandersteen Treos recommended, and it's interesting they could sound good placed that close to the wall in spite of their being ported. I'll make a point of going and hearing them demoed when I head up towards DC to audition the Magico A3's, and a couple others which remain on my short list.
I have the Treo CT in a 33’ x 15’ x 9 ‘ room. You can see a photo in virtual systems...several thoughts:
this Vandersteen was designed to be place close to back wall = true mine are right at 13” and have staggering image depth.
the port is on the bottom = true = remarkable bass without a sub = very consistant coupling...
setup is important = follow the instructions AND use good tools ( this applies to any speaker ) = buy a Leica Disto !!!! you can get smoking hot accuracy, plus get a very accurate ear height which is essential for dialing in any Vandersteen using the manual !!!!!
not blowing my own carbon fiber tweeter, but Richard V checked out my setup and I got good marks.
@skyscraper.....also you can get the wood you want...i remember you are a woodworker, no ?... mine are in Ambrosia Maple ( beetle) but you can pretty much get anything you can pay for......
Tomic60, Richard Vandersteen came over your house to check out your Vandersteen’s speaker placement? I can’t even get the local audio store dealers to do adequate demos of their own equipmment in their own stores. You are the one.
I’ll check out your pictures in "virtual systems". Is that located on site somewhere? I was wondering why you couldn’t post pictures along with your written posts. One of the woodworking machines sites I frequent is always insisting on pictures along with posts when relevant. Thanks for your advice
@skyscraper.....Richard and I share a couple of interests..airplanes and audio and he happened to be in the neighborhood- so why not make him work !!!! lucky but the view makes the beach boys sound better! surfing usa!
Well, Tomic601, if you and Richard have airplanes, and I do choose Vandersteens, you two might as well fly on out to Roanoke and help set up my speakers.
By the way, and nothing to do with anything, the Beach Boys "Surfin USA" was the first album I ever owned. My mother had won a $35.00 gift certificate at a local record store. My sister got "Meet the Beatles" the same day.. Our first stereo was a piece of luggage that had the turntable in the bottom half when you opened it, and stereo speakers in the top half. It was low, as opposed to hi-fidelity, but completely enjoyable at age twelve and started me down this path. Take it easy and enjoy the surf.
i built airplanes and other high tech stuff for a living.. Richard built and then modified a composite airplane that he flies.. this led him down a path of trying to get balsa end grain cores to bond to carbon fiber skins....which he eventually did - this is the magic behind his model 7 drivers and some similar things at work in the carbon fiber tweeter in the Treo CT which i think you should hear!
enjoyed your lo-fi story ! Pet Sounds....spin that one next
Tomic601, I will definitely be auditioning the Vandersteen Treo CT, hopefully next week, at a showroom I've located in northern Virginia.
Sounds like you have had an interesting occupation building planes and hi-tech equipment. Richard sounds pretty interesting too, from your description and his applying aircraft technology to speakers. I appreciate people who know how to do things.
I do have Pet Sounds and am listening to it right now at your suggestion. ("Wouldn't It Be Nice" at the moment) Great album. Got their follow-up to Pet Sounds, the reconstructed Smile album, not long ago.
Sky, I sold my beloved Treo's to GNB. I wanted him to come up to pick them up so he could hear them. Sold on the spot! They were very close to the wall too. Less than a foot. They worked GREAT. Johnny R set them up and he did a wonderful job. I now have the Quatro's and they too are close to the wall (very close) and right up against the side walls too.
I work with wood also. I was going to do a really neat veneer (I had about 5 different ones I was thinking about), but ended up paying a spec more to get them painted in Audio Havana Black (the darkest brown you can find. It's a highly metallic black with a lot of copper metal fleck). Stunning. Everyone notices them, lol. I had the cherry Treo's and as Bob will tell you, they are beautiful. Tomic's are spectacular also. What finish are you looking to do?
Another Treo CT owner here. I’ve used them on the long and short walls and find they work really well on either. Rake angle is important, and they appreciate an amp that has some power, but still sounded great with my small tube amp. I find base to be excellent but only if it’s well recorded. Really great speakers!
Ctsooner, glad to hear your Treo's sounded good that close to the wall.
I'll probably do my speakers in black to blend in with all the black audio components, computer, TV etc on the same wall and not compete with the Federal style mahogany furniture in the rest of the room. Outside chance I could go with the same mahogany though. Haven't completely made up my mind.
Doni, I've been wondering about the Treo's bass output and will be listening carefully during the demos. Thanks for writing in.
Ask Bob also. If you gear can feed it strong deep bass it will recreate it down to 30hz. I've had them rocking plenty of times when I owned them. I needed to be able to control the bass as my room is so open, but the Treo's won't lack for quality bass, that's for sure. Very tight, great tone and layered.
quality bass is like a Fender Jazz or Precision discussion....or Ray Brown Soular Energy or Stanley on JD Souther Black Rose -Silver Blue or just about anything from The Dan....two against nature...or...
That's good advice to differentiate between quantity and quality of bass. I'll keep it in mind when I'm listening to speaker demos this week, hopefully. I've got to organize all these good tips I've been getting. Maybe cutting and pasting a cheat sheet to carry with me. Thanks again,
+1 on the quantity vs quality discussion. So many love these high end speakers that offer gobs of bass, but not layering or differentiation of notes. They THINK it does, but so many top speakers don't. as the cones break up quickly and are out of phase way too often.
It's the same thing as letting the person giving the demo keeping the volume controller. DON'T do it!! They will goose the volume on certain passages to make the speaker they want to sell sound better. It's BS and unfair to us. Louder sounds great in the store, but not so much once you get them home and wonder where all the dynamics are at YOUR listening levels. This is why the Vandersteen's stand out for MY ears. They offer the micro and macro details that many others don't so you can play them lower and still get the details. no smearing etc... Phase correct to me is so important as that's what live music gives us.
Ctsooner, I did control the volume at both dealerships I auditioned speakers at today. Mostly because the owner/staffpersons there handed the remote to me at the beginning of each audition. I did raing and lowering the volume and listening bot inside and outside the listening room.
It seems some speakers address phase coherence electronically within the crossovers, such as the Magicos, while others like the Vandersteen do it by speaker placement/arrangement within the cabinet design, I asked about that today having read a reference to that in one review.
Audionoobie, I'll have to run that Ray Brown down. It must be good, having earned multiple recommendations here.
Awesome stuff. keep us posted on things. I spoke to Jonny and Richard on my Quatro placement recently. I have MS and can't physically move things, so I rely on having friends come listen and help (son in law is strong like bull).
I'm going to purchase a 3" piece of granite (three 1" pieces epoxied) and have them finish the edges and then I'll change the rake of the speakers (I think Richard said it would be 4 extra spacers on the spikes for a 3" lift). I am going to move mine out from about 4" or so to about 16" I think I measured to see if that does anything to the sound. Once I find the best position in my room, then they will stay there forever on top of the slabs. It's good to have a great dealer who cares after the sale as much as during as well as a company who will even take calls from a schlep like me, lol. Oh, I don't fly or build airplanes, other than balsa wood ones....
Hey, wait, Richard MAKES cones out of balsa wood.....I guess we do have something in common along with Tomic! ;)
The Ray Brown "Soular Energy" recording is really something special. I believe it takes a really good loudspeaker system with fast (read, no lingering of one bass note into another) bass to accurately reproduce Ray's standup bass. I think this is one of the reasons Richard V. uses this recording to set up the bass levels on his speakers. As tomic601 has said, quality, not quantity.
Greetings. I’m new to this forum and just found this thread. I have owned my Treo CT’s for about a year now and love the sound but I only have a little knowledge about placement, which now sounds like a most, if not the most critical process. I’m in Northern VA and very close to the seller, so I’m going to reach out and have him come by to help sort it out, which will include the best placement in my challenging basement - including 11am ceiling, L-shape, with the Treo’s in front of a solid exposed brick wall with a stoop. I will also reread the manual about placement. Gave up all hope bases on the room layout. Thanks for all the great help!
@next8, PM or call John Rutan (audioconnection- that is the name of his store in Verona NJ). He will provide you step by step direction. And, don't feel like he will try to sell you something. He's too classy for that. Bob
@next8 congrats on a fantastic pair of speakers. if you create a virtual system here on audiogon and post a few photos of the space that will help. You can also do a rough dimension sketch and post that. All Vandersteen manuals offe RV a math based approach to placement... initial starting location... a laser measure is imo hyper valuable and like $30. Finally, I am jokingly the 24/7/365 support hotline, but I have John Rutan on speed dial !!!!! best to you jim
Great suggestions tomico601. I’m on it now. Maybe a road trip to see John too. It’s only about 4 hours 🙏. I read the manual on placement yesterday. Wow. My hifi knowledge level is super basic. So another more focused reading will help. I won’t get started on the DAC, config, ohm/watt, loss-less part either. 😯😦😑. Bare wire guy but learning SLOWLY.
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