I just added a Rogue RP-1 to my system. I use a Bluesound Vault 2 as a music server. Befor the Rogue I have been able to tell the difference in different DAC's I've had. My equipment is Emotiva XMC-1, Oppo 105, Bluesound Vault 2, AV123 strata Mini speakers and a SVS 300bp subwoofer.
I've compared the Oppo 105 to the Vault and the Oppo was definitely better, I've also compared the Vault to the XMC-1 and the XMC-1 was better.
Since installing the Rogue RP-1 they all seem to sound the same, even borrowed a Schiit Bitfrost. Again I could not hear a difference. So I have just simplified my setup and I'm just using the the RCA out from the Vault to one of the RP-1 inputs.
I tested the following DACs with RP1 when I had it and the difference was immediately apparent:
Chord Qutest, Mytek Brooklyn 2, Bryston BDA-3.14
I ended up with Chord Qutest.
Amp was Rogue ST100 driving Martin Logan Montis.
DACs should not be quickly A/B’d by switching inputs back and forth. You need to listen to at least the entire track and even better listen for few hours with one dac before switching to another.
If after getting acclimated to one DAC it all still sounds the same to you, you’re either not capable to hear the differences or your system is not revealing (it’s not RP1 cause it’s pretty transparent) and or your room acoustics are bad or all of the above.
The difference between the Emotiva XMC-1 in Reference mode and the RP-1 WAS IMMEDIATELY apparent. A friend of mine compared the Vault DAC output to Oppo 205, he also didn't notice much of a difference we have the same speakers and sub. Maybe I need to try a better DAC.
What are you using for cables , also the quality can possible be close to the same level. Why don’t you upgrade to the New Denafrips Arias15 or Pontus 15
they have new engineering and the 15 series is a generation better.
I bought the Iris reclocker which is a steal at $550 , my friend has the New Aries 15 it is very detailed and natural R2R dac.
"If after getting acclimated to one DAC it all still sounds the same to you, you’re either not capable to hear the differences or your system is not revealing"
@audphile1Surely you can do better than this tired old cliche'. OP already demonstrated that he cold tell the difference between dacs before inserting the RP1, and you obviously believe the RP1 is capable, so it seems clear something else is going on.
@thegreenline I have a question. If you use the same DAC (best on you have), can you tell the difference between the two different pre-amps? Which one do you prefer? What is the history of the RP1 - new or used, how old is it?
I would think and from my listening, the RP1 is a bit tubby and while that sound is great, it may be relaxed enough that you don't here the minor differences between the dacs you are comparing. The DACS you name are similar and built into other devices. I expect them to be similar and average. There may be other stuff you are hearing or not hearing given the dacs appear to be integrated with other devices.
I have a Vault II and am considering getting a Schitt Yggdrasil. Was also looking at the Linear Tube Audio Aero DAC - little more $$.
My question is if I will see improvement from just using the Bluesound Vault as my DAC.
Thoughts, Experience? I bought the Bluesound to get rid of my CD's when I first started building my system. I heard it was a good option, now I'm looking to improve while using it to still serve as my streamer.
If after getting acclimated to one DAC it all still sounds the same to you, you’re either not capable to hear the differences or your system is not revealing (it’s not RP1 cause it’s pretty transparent) and or your room acoustics are bad or all of the above.
You chose to only use a part of my post. Taking into consideration what I said about associated equipment and room acoustics instead of leaving it out and labeling my statement a cliche isn’t going to help you or the OP. Stop taking things out of context. That’s bad form.
@audphile1"That's bad form". Good one! Bad form is doubling down on a useless post. I left out " (it’s not RP1 cause it’s pretty transparent) and or your room acoustics are bad or all of the above."
Are you saying that the room acoustics came in to play only after he switched to the RP1? He could distinguish between dacs before he switched. Look at @thegreenline post above as a logical explanation. It appears that being called out is bad form to you.
I am using BlueJean Cables throughout (speakers digital and RCA). I even switched from optical to coax out on the vault. Still can't really hear a difference.
Let me correct the part about can't hear a difference. I can hear a slight difference neither one sounds better just slightly different. When I have my daughter switch back and forth I can tell there is a difference, not better or worse just different, but I can't tell which is which. Not a true blind test but close enough.
@abnerjack look bud…read my first post where I shared my experience with different DACs running them with RP1 and shared the best method of comparing DACs from my experience. Calling my post useless…that’s rich.
It’s obvious you’re incapable of digesting the information in my post probably due to limited capacity, or it could be my jersey accent…who knows.
The only useless posts here are yours. You took things out of context and picked a fight while providing zero value for the OP. Is there anything you wanted to share from your experience? Got anything to recommend? Or are you here to just rate responses?
Not sure what your beef is with me. But I don’t intend to continue entertaining your nonsense. It’s counterproductive to this discussion and arguing with someone like you isn’t time well spent. Take care.
Thegreenline, as I own an RP-1, I feel compelled to speak. However I’m not clear as to what pre you replaced with the Rogue. Also is the Rogue new or used ? My midfi system is a Schiit Yiggy, Rogue RP-1, Had Inspire amp rotated with a 50 wpc SS kit amp to Zu Omens. I currently stream with a Project Ultra II. I was into home theater and switched to 2 ch, however I never tried to integrate the two. When I first obtained the Rogue, I streamed with a laptop to a Schiit Bifrost. I have an Oppo 105 in the closet. With the Rogue I tried the Oppo, Cambridge DAC Magic, Schiit Bifrost and Yiggy. I’ve tried 4 different brands of interconnects, a couple power cables and 4 different USB cables. I was able to tell a difference every single time. So currently the Rogue has a Morrow level 3 power cable, Cardas Clear USB, Morrow 4 IC’s, Tekefunken G73R tubes and isolation footers under the factory feet. The power comes through a Richard Gray filter. My take from what I’ve done is Absolutely change out the JJ’s in the Rogue. But play around with your system, as you should hear all of your changes. Unfortunately I can’t say what’s wrong from here. Apologies for my writing as I’m using my phone. Cheers, Mike B.
No, jbuhl. Before the RP-1 the DAC from the Oppo 105 was an improvement from a Pioneer Elite rcvr on board DAC a Cambridge DAC magic then a Sherbourn PT-7030 preamp on board DAC and a Schiit Bifrost original DAC, in that order. After replacing the Sherbourn with the Emotiva XMC-1 I noticed I couldn’t really tell the difference between the XMC-1 and the Oppo. BUT they were BOTH better than the DAC in the Bluesound Vault. Since I was mostly just using the Oppo as a DAC, I sold it to help finance a new turntable. SINCE installing the RP-1, the DAC from the Vault sounds as good as the DAC from the XMC-1(actually I hear no difference between the XMC-1, Bifrost or the Vault DAC) I have a friend with the same speakers AV123 Strata Mini’s (i don’t wish for the pro’s or con’s of those speakers to be a part of this discussion) an XMC-1, an Oppo 205 and a Bluesound Vault. He just got a used RP-1 (by the way mine is used also, we both got them through Audiogon sellers) he also says at first listen he can’t tell the difference between the Oppo 205 DAC and the Vault DAC(he’s just complaining a cross country move will give a more critical listen later) he says BEFORE installing the RP-1 the Oppo DAC was better.
Added the Topping D90SE, hard to put what I hear or don’t hear into words. I guess you can say it seems pretty neutral with all kinds of music (at least the music listen to). I especially notice when I listen at louder levels. Got a GREAT price on the Topping
If your RP1 has stock JJs you should plan to try better tubes. Brimar CV4003 from Upscale Audio were amazing in the RP1. Gold Lions were really nice as well.
I’m sorry I made a mistake. I heard no difference between the Schiit Bifrost original model and the Bluesound Vault 2 DAC. NOT the Emotiva. I did hear a difference with the Topping D90SE. I’m guessing there’s not much difference between the Bifrost and the Vault.
@audphile1 thanks for the input about the Brimar tubes from upscale audio, got my Rega P6 from them
@thegreenline I really enjoyed the RP1 when I had it. It responded to tube rolling, cable changes, power cords. On top of it all I used the inbuilt phono amp and it kicked butt. It took a Sutherland KC Vibe MkII to beat that phono section. It’s an insane value the RP1. Enjoy it!
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