@nicktheknifeI have the RME hooked up to my Octave V70 Class A using the balanced connections and I’m completely happy with the sound which is rich and dynamic. I did change the power supply to a Teddy Pardo. I believe I have the filter set to slow.
RME ADI-2 fs DAC: Not Loving It
I took the plunge about 6 months ago and replaced my Peachtree DACiTx with ADI-2. I got the DACiTx to play files via computer and from my old but beloved JVC XL-Z1050 CDP.
Can't say that I've noticed a marked improvement using the RME over the Peachtree.
I picked the RME because of the glowing reviews and the fact that it had DSP. I'm 61 yrs. old and last time I had my ears checked I haven't really lost much in the high freq's. But, I thought that it was inevitable that I would and the EQ that RME has may be a bonus.
In reality, it is not very user friendly and I'm no techie. I thought by playing with it for a while it would get easier but really all I want to do is listen to music.
I'm no longer using a computer but a Bluesound Node 2i for my files and also use Tidal.
Not really a headphone guy but thought it would be nice to have the option seeing that neither of my preamps have a headphone jack. I was only using my headphones with portable devices.
I have mostly listened to vinyl over the years but really wanted to upgrade my digital front end as I'm getting lazy in my old age.
The rest of my system :
Preamps:
Classe CP-50
Rogue Audio Model 99 Magnum
Power Amps:
McCormack DNA-0.5 Deluxe Edition
Black Ice Audio Fusion 3502P
Speakers:
PBN DP's
ACI Titan II LE subwoofer
Still using the JVC as a CD transport.
I usually mix and match tubes with solid state. Right now I'm using the Classe Pre with Black Ice Audio tubed power amp.
The RME sounds rather neutral, lean and dry to my ears. Nothing exciting. It doesn't make me sit up and take notice like when I first added the Peachtree to my system. I was like wow! This is what I been missing all these years. So, I thought the RME would be a significant upgrade over the Peachtree. So far, not impressed. Maybe if I was headphone guy? Can't comment there other than both headphone outputs work.
Any suggestions on what to try or what direction I should take next?
Can't say that I've noticed a marked improvement using the RME over the Peachtree.
I picked the RME because of the glowing reviews and the fact that it had DSP. I'm 61 yrs. old and last time I had my ears checked I haven't really lost much in the high freq's. But, I thought that it was inevitable that I would and the EQ that RME has may be a bonus.
In reality, it is not very user friendly and I'm no techie. I thought by playing with it for a while it would get easier but really all I want to do is listen to music.
I'm no longer using a computer but a Bluesound Node 2i for my files and also use Tidal.
Not really a headphone guy but thought it would be nice to have the option seeing that neither of my preamps have a headphone jack. I was only using my headphones with portable devices.
I have mostly listened to vinyl over the years but really wanted to upgrade my digital front end as I'm getting lazy in my old age.
The rest of my system :
Preamps:
Classe CP-50
Rogue Audio Model 99 Magnum
Power Amps:
McCormack DNA-0.5 Deluxe Edition
Black Ice Audio Fusion 3502P
Speakers:
PBN DP's
ACI Titan II LE subwoofer
Still using the JVC as a CD transport.
I usually mix and match tubes with solid state. Right now I'm using the Classe Pre with Black Ice Audio tubed power amp.
The RME sounds rather neutral, lean and dry to my ears. Nothing exciting. It doesn't make me sit up and take notice like when I first added the Peachtree to my system. I was like wow! This is what I been missing all these years. So, I thought the RME would be a significant upgrade over the Peachtree. So far, not impressed. Maybe if I was headphone guy? Can't comment there other than both headphone outputs work.
Any suggestions on what to try or what direction I should take next?
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I got an RME and I never even used any of the many adjustments; I like the sound of it better than that of the Hugo 2, which costs twice as much. And I agree, it IS rather neutral and dry; seems to leave the 'character' to the amp. But I've since replaced the RME with a DAVE and an M Scaler, and I've just replaced that with a HOLO May DAC, which really IS that awesome after break-in time... |
It just might not be your flavor. I have the same DAC and love it. I also have the Teddy Pardo power supply and in my system it was a substantial improvement, fuller sound, better and extended control on the bottom end and the top end definitely more polite. I’m guessing with your JVC as a transport you are going coax out to the RME, but what is the cable? Are you also going coax out of your Node? If you’re using the stock power cord on the switch supply that came with the RME, your first step should be to get a better power cord as it helps. I agree it is a complex piece but manageable to learn, but that being said I run my with everything fix, the volume is fixed, no tone controls or EQ and I run mine on the sharp filter and find it not at all dry, fatiguing, or lifeless but has great PRAT. With the Teddy Pardo power supply, among cables on the RME that cost significantly more than the DAC, I run mine direct to my amp bypassing a really good, no, great tube preamp I also own. I also run balance out of the RME. To recap, what’s digital cable are you using? The RME is very revealing so it might be tattling on your cable or source. What are you using for a power cord? If stock, spend $150 and get a better cord because it will improve things. You mentioned you find it complex; have you gone in the settings and messed with the tone controls or EQ and now have it all whacked out? If your not running it direct to your amp, then bypass and set everything to direct and run it only as a DAC. Lastly what filter are you using? Good luck |
RME is pro audio gear. I use their UFX a/d d/a unit in my professional post production studio and have made music recordings using it as well. There are companies who install a better power supply in it that supposedly makes it sound better. While I’ve never used it in my listening room, I can’t imagine it sounds anywhere near what my Directstream DAC sounds like. |
Agree, not user user friendly. If there was an app or software that would allow for manipulation from afar it might improve the situation. Going through all of the button permutations at the stereo rack is not practical. Also agree that it imparts no flavor to the chain and its AD implementation is likely minimalistic in effect. I do like the dsp and balanced connections. |
I may fiddle with it for a while longer. I appreciate the advice given but one thing I’m NOT going to do is put more money into the RME ie. Power supply, better cables, etc. I’m currently using a SUPRA TRICO-RCA 1 digital cable. I’ve tried a Bluejeans cable and a Pangea. Maybe not the best but I honestly couldn’t really tell a difference between them. |
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recluse
That's one thing I haven't tried yet is using the balanced outputs. Will need to get another balanced cable though first. I only have one pair and it's being used between preamp and power amp. I do have an old pair of Straight Wire Maestros but I will need to do a repair on one. Maybe I'll just buy another pair. |
One other note on the sound that I'm experiencing. I noticed the center images especially seem small when compared to my analog rig. I played Jethro Tull's Thick as a Brick (Steve Wilson remix) on vinyl and I streamed the digital version on Tidal. The beginning acoustic part was like listening to a life size Ian Anderson (vinyl) to an Ian Anderson midget (digital). I know apple to oranges comparison but I thought it would be closer. |
A lot of people speak highly of the Cullen power cords. I know before I upgraded the switch power supply I first upgraded the power cord and it made enough of an improvement it provoked me to change the power supply next. I’d strongly recommend changing out the $2 power cable that came with the RME. I’ve not tried the Cullen’s but many here rave about them and they’re affordable. If you don’t feel it helps I doubt you will get hurt selling it or possibly you have a Blu-ray play or your Node uses the same C7 plug. I have a Bluesound Vault 2 which I upgraded the PC and recommend you might want to do as well. Try just the one PC and go from there. Are you hardwired on your Node or only going WiFi? Ethernet direct does sound better so change that too. More cable advice… Supra Cat8 - it’s affordable. Good Luck. https://www.cullencable.com/c7-power-cable/ |
Thanks adg101. I got a little confused and thought you were referring to the ADI-2 power cord. I did upgrade the pc on the Bluesound. I am currently using an AudioQuest NRG-Y. I would have to have a pretty long length on that Cat 8 cable. My router is in another room. I'd probably need at least 30 ft. |
The affordable wonder-DACs are not, a wonder, that is. They can vary radically in performance between systems. Typically a system has to be changed several times to maximize the introduction of a new DAC. In some cases the system is superb with it. More often, much work is needed to optimize the sound. Perhaps in half the cases the sound never is worth all the effort. That is the reality of dealing with unknown/hyped DACs. Most components, really. |
@douglas_schroeder It's funny that I never had a problem with my analog rig. Whether I changed a cartridge, phono stage or turntable. Yes, I have used a cartridge that wasn't a very good match with my tonearm or phono stage but it was still engaging. I wonder if I should maybe try an r2r dac. A friend of mine has a PBN dac. The power supply is massive, rack sized. It was over $5000 and that was used from Audio Station in Bartlesville, OK. They deal in a lot PBN equipment mostly used. I think he sent it in to get a usb input installed. It didn't originally have one. And I think it's 24/96 max. He bought it only about 4 months ago. |
The RME does not need expensive cables, upgraded linear power supply to sound really good. I started stock and it outperformed my Cambridge 851C which is a fairly decent player for the money, which outperforms my Oppo 205 which some are nutty about, but that’s another day. The DAC in my BS Vault 2 is not even worth mentioning, which I ran the Vault through my 851C which was a nice improvement. What I and others are saying is add a better power supply and it steps up a good notch to a better DAC, actually much better. The RME is good enough that it continues to distinguish the difference between cables and the better the cables, well you guessed it. It is a really good DAC, but that doesn’t mean it’s for everyone, just like someone else may not like a MHDT, Denafrips, Schitt and etc. No doubt there are better DAC’s but I think ones going to spend much more to really hear much improvement but only differences. I do think that if one gets into the settings and starts messing with tone controls, the EQ and filters one could end up with a sound they do not like and not realize what they did as I agree it is fairly complex to navigate through all its settings at first. Don’t recall you mentioned what filter you are using. |
I have the RME DAC... it is a so so DAC out of the box. I had to upgrade the power supply, went to battery power, it made a pretty significant difference. Then I had to change the capacitors inside the DAC to some Audionote Kaesei capacitors. The stock sound is dry, lean, and too clinical. The caps gave it that analogue weight and texture. I don't get the praise it gets on these forums to be honest, it was not something I would keep in it's stock configuration.... pretty meh to be honest. |
nicktheknife, power supplies do make a substantive difference, but imo they do not save the DAC. While an upgraded PSU is nice, it will not utterly transform the DAC such that it would outperform any other given DAC with similar treatment. Power cords, digital cable, i.e. USB or Coax, are all important, too. DACs that are super-analytical, when dropped into dull, syrupy systems, will wake up the system and the owner will think they've hit a home run because they had made such a dull system that when they hear so much more of resolution, they attribute it to the DAC, as opposed to realizing they didn't build such a resolving rig. Put a whiter, more clinical and analytical DAC into a system that is already very high resolution and it may not be acceptable. Tonality is exceptionally important to the ear, and it can take a LOT of work with some components to reach a pleasing point. Generally, if I have to work that hard to make a component sound wonderful, then you probably won't adore the sound long term. I used to try to "save" so-so components to make them work. No longer, as it's not worth the sacrifices made on performance long term. This is not discussion of the DAC in question per se. It's general guidance based on building hundreds of rigs. The variance in performance of DACs across systems is stunningly wide. It would take about 12 discrete systems, and ideally with several different genres of speakers, to have a global understanding of any DAC's performance. |
@douglas_schroeder " Generally, if I have to work that hard to make a component sound wonderful, then you probably won't adore the sound long term." I see what you're getting at. If I have to put that much work and money into an already fine piece of equipment to get it to sound good in my system I may as well put that money into something I will be happy with long term. And I can add very good cabling, power supply, etc. later on to 'tweak' something I already like in my system to a possibly better sound. I'll think I will play with the ADI for a while longer, double check my settings until I'm sure it works or doesn't work for me. Maybe even put the Peachtree back in and compare it to that again. I may even just use the Bluesound with it's onboard dac as well. Just for the heck of it. |
I had never thought about it that way… if you have to put a lot of work into it to make it sound good… but looking back over my history that is correct. When I got high quality components, they sounded fantastic to start with and tweaking just improved them. When I was much younger and trying to get the best sound for less money, I would get components that needed all sorts of accommodation to make them sound good. Sometimes I just had to give up. |
Yesterday I hooked up my old Peachtree DaciTx using a fiber optic cable from the Bluenode. I also kept the RME connected to the Bluenode with Coax. This was the best and easiest way for me to do some comparisons without having to disconnect anything. I just have to switch inputs on my remote while music is playing on the node. Yes, I know, fiber optic to digital coax. Apples to Oranges? What I'll do sometime today is reverse these connections putting the fiber optic cable to the RME and the coax to the Peachtree so that both dac's get equal time with each different input cable. After listening at least a few hours yesterday switching back and fourth between the two the difference was practically negligible. I actually felt that I was leaning towards the sound of the Peachtree. Yes, different dac chip (Sabre). It appeared that the center image was slightly bigger and more fleshed out. More like there was a real person singing as opposed to an image of one. I'm not saying that's how good my system or this dac is, it's just an exaggerated way to describe what I'm hearing. The whole soundstage sounds a little bigger as well or it appears to. The Rme sounded to my ears more digital and Peachtree more analog. And again, that description is just the best way I have to describe the differences I've noted so far. I do not mean to imply that the Peachtree sounds like good analog. Before I do that cable swap I will listen again with the ADI's filter set to NOS to see if can hear a slight difference. My understanding is that these filter have minimal effect on the sound. So far, going from sd sharp to sharp was just that. One last thing, the output rca cables from each unit are dh labs silver sonic BL-1's. So those are the same. |
Nick, you may want to watch the video’s on how to operate the RME, that are produced by RME, there are maybe 5 or 6 of them. I have never looked at the book I learned everything from video’s, watched each one a few times. You may have adjusted something and not known it with the remote. With your image problem there are balance adjustments on the remote they could be out of wack. Bass and treble adjustments on remote could have been altered, EQ could be on and not know it. Do you know how to look at display and see what has been adjusted if any. I have a huge life like imaging going on with the RME, big bass and smooth treble, I do have the Teddy Purdue power supply but I don’t think it makes that huge of a difference, it’s noticeable but not drastic. I also have the MHDT Orchid with 6922 and 6sn7 adapters with some very nice tubes and find it can’t keep up with the RME with complex music. It does image a little better and is more relaxed but I spend more time listening to the RME, but I do very much enjoy the Orchid. Some of the things you describe am am not experiencing. Ever since I had RME set up I haven’t touched it in months. I will have to go back to video’s to remember how to adjust it again. |
@paulcreed I went into the RME to change the filter to NOS to give it a try. Unfortunately, I didn’t have time to listen to it today though. I was in the settings and had the EQ off. Bass and treble at 0. I could have something else not set right. I may have to just reset the unit and just change the filter setting to NOS. |
Hi, please bypass the preamp. Tell us what happens. I have Ave the older version RME with AKM chip. Also running very sensitive tube momoblock amps. Used to own the McCormack DNA-2 deluxe Rev. A with carbon wiring. My system is very sensitive to changes. The RME is a major player and runs direct to the tube amp monoblocks with no preamp. Volume is handled by the RME. Also now running the RME on batter power and in my system that was a nice bump. Bottom line, get the preamp out of the way. Let us know. If you are unsure about settings, just do a reset. Lets see what happens. |
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I listened yesterday after changing the filter from Sharp to NOS. It was so close between the RME and Peachtree I couldn't really discern a difference between the two. The RME did sound better to me using the NOS filter than Sharp though. I'm going to use the balanced outputs of the RME directly to the amp today. Double checked the settings to make sure everything is set where it should be. I'm getting a little better and familiar with navigating the display screen. |
@nicktheknifeHopefully that change to the balanced output will do the trick. As I said I am very impressed with the RME in my system. I am using a upgraded power supply and good balanced cables into my amp and absolutely love the sound. I also listen to a nice CD Player and Vinyl but when I’m lazy the Audirvāna running through the RME is stellar! Good Luck! |
I will admit, not user friendly.... it is a pro -sumer device. Its menu hierarchy is straight out of pro audio. Once you master navigation of the menu its much easier to dial in. Also try setting the output to Auto and then try the +1 dB, +5 dB, etc .... in my opinion this setting is the most important in getting good sound out of the DAC. If everything is set to default, no tone, eq , etc try each of the output levels . You will find the level that provides plenty of drive but doesn't overload the preamps or amps input. |
@oddiofyl Interesting thought on the gain setting. I’m pretty sure it is set to auto and the display is currently showing +1 dB. I will double check of course. Will that change depending on the volume? When using the DAC, I set my preamp volume to 25 and use the RME’s volume control from there. My preamp has a dual gain feature that you can change the gain from 18db to 12db if desired. I usually use it 18db but it's easy to change with the remote. |
I would say it would sound compressed, hard sounding. If you look in the manual there is a section that shows what the dB level is equivalent to in volts. Something like +5 is like 2.0 volts out of the RME . Thats where I would set it first at whatever equalls 2.0 v which nominal for RCA connections. The 13dB output will yield over 4 volts through RCA too I believe so you could overload the preamps input. My preamps are both tube and full output out of the RME does not seem to overload , but it is depending on material. You can see it on the horizontal post meter. If you switch the RME screen to dark volume, the dark screen with the large white numeric volume readout , the numbers will actually turn red if the incoming signal is causing it to clip.... The things that box can do are amazing. Keep playing with it, you will dial it in. |
Just another sidebar note: RME is an outstanding company who works to improve their product with firmware upgrades on a regular basis. Was on version 35/35 and just upgraded to Firmware Update ADI-2 DAC 66 / 41. You can read about the technical details here: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=176455#p176455 For my big tube monblocks system, this is not a small improvement. Again, I do not use a preamp and have the RME ADI-2 running direct to each of the tube monoblocks. (Many people I've seen were reluctant to remove a preamp but until they did, had no idea it was an impediment to the RME's performance until they did.) In addition, I run the RME on battery power with a $100 unit that has given it a boost in sound quality. For the moment, I'm trying to wrap me head around the firmware upgrade. It's that significant. Happy listening and good luck. |
Nick, I don't know how other people run RME but I run everything flat. I would think most people don't use volume on RME going into a preamp, I could be wrong. I set mine to 0.0, anything above doesn't sound as natural in my system. Sometime I will back bass down to -0.5 and notice more detail maybe the bass is stepping on the information on some recordings but 98% of the time 0.0. I also run balanced cables to preamp and also rca's to preamp out of the RME at the same time. Each cable has its own signature sound. My rca is a little warmer and rolled off so if I'm in the mood for a more rolled off sound I change inputs selection on the preamp for a different presentation. Just learn to navigate the menu and use what sounds good to you, set up your EQ you can turn it off and on on the fly with the remote. I found that as little as RME is it still responds very well to footers and it's platform. |
Paul Creed, I have the Rme input going into the Preamp using rca's. I don't have a an extra pair of balanced cables so I have to wait to try the balanced outputs of the rme when a get dome cables. I mentioned that my preamp has two gain settings 18db and 12db. I'm using the 12db setting and keep the volume on the pre set at 25. Then I use the rme's volume function on the rme and rarely get up to or past 0.0. I don't know if that is ideal but I like using rme's volume control. I'm currently using the NOS filter and no EQ ... yet. |
I also don't have a remote preamp. I'm using a c-j Classic 2SE and I just set the RME to 0dB then play so e tracks and set the c-j a little loader thani would normally listen to. That keeps the DAC from truncating bits of data at lower volumes. So I find myself listening to the DAC somewhere between -10 dB to +2 dB or so.... do that in conjunction with trying auto reference vs +1, +5 , +7 dB for the output setting and you will find the sweet spot. |