Retip for zyx

I should have the ZYX Universe here Thursday and after I run it in I will report back with the comparisons to the cart in stock form to which I put over 2,000 hours on and am familiar with. 

To lewm and chakster
It would be very useful for everybody if you could make a shout out between an original zyx and the retipped one.

@gilles130 

Thanks, but I no longer use/have my ZYX cartridges, so i can't make direct comparison between original and refurbished. 

Received the ZYX Universe, copper coiled low output with the silver base back from Soundsmith a week ago Tuesday. The rebuild was their boron cantilever with the line contact stylus. Installed the cart on my VPI 10 inch 3D arm mounted on a Prime table with periphery ring clamp, BDR clamp or Stillpoints LPS clamp, Single motor flywheel assembly and SDS speed controller, set up was straight forward, VTA level, dressed the wiring for anti skate, set azimuth by eye and tracking set around 2.1 grams and at this point walked away and waited for some time later that eve to get started with this evaluation. Pulled 20 albums that I know very well and were recently familar with played with this cart before the rebuild so at this point felt I had set the table for a good evaluation. My normal process is to clean my stylus with a long bristled stylus brush to knock off any loose dust and then drop it into a jell based stylus cleaner and this was the first sign that things were going right, the Universe is the one cart I have owned where this is almost a silent cleaning when this protocal is used with it, very hard to hear the brush against the stylus. Played the first album and set back with a black Russian (drink) and just fell into a grove, after the first and into the second album I just started enjoying the music, 8 albums later I had to force myself to go to bed. Night 2, I adjusted the VTA a slight bit but back to level again since the suspension seems to have settled in. Long story short, I am very glad to have my Universe back, it is truly the one cart that when it is out of my system I am looking to get it back into my system as soon as possible and the rebuild seems to be very close to the stock one to my ears. Now I am not so naive to think that there is not some differences to the stock verses rebuilt Universes but to my ears and for my money ($462.00) I am looking over my shoulder thinking I really got away with something here and would recommend this rebuild to others as well. I have really been pleased with the 8 carts that I have had rebuilt by Soundsmith, all with the Ruby or Sapphire cantilevered rebuilds, except for the Dynavector DRT XV1s that was still an excellent cart but the tone changed so when the XV1s that I run now needs rebuilt it will get the Boron rebuild. The lesson I take away from this is that no matter what your having rebuilt or retipped, especially if it is one of the top tier carts like the Universe, XV1s or other top model that you consult with your trusted rebuilder to mimic as close as possible the parts being replaced. Enjoy the music, have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

To the person who suggested that I should compare a retipped universe to an OEM universe, I can’t do that because I only have one universe cartridge, and it has its original stylus, which has only 50 or so hours on it.

However, tooblue’s experience tends to confirm what we have already been saying, if you choose to re- tip using an after market vendor, it is best to choose cantilever materials and a stylus shape that most closely resemble those of the original.

I have really been pleased with the 8 carts that I have had rebuilt by Soundsmith

It a destiny of MCs 

Personally i don't think it's normal that so many nice (sometimes unique and exotic cartridges) from many different manufacturers/designers are all goes to one person for refurbishing with third-party parts. 

This is one of the reason i love the MM cartridges, at least we can change the cantilever/stylus assembly by ourself in 5 seconds (if we have original replacement) without ruining the sound character of the cartridge. No compromises here. 

Refurbished some special MC cartridges by third-party vendor is always a compromise. Good business for the vendors, but is that good for the cartridge? 

Someone should make a direct comparison of those unique cartridges in stock condition to the refurbished cartridges with different parts (cantilever, stylus). 

Our memories, unfortunately, can not hold the information of particular sound for a month, comparing refurbished cartridge to the memories is not a good idea. We're always biased by the new toys. We have to compare original to refurbished in the real life in the same system. 

@chakster, @nandric, you two just don't give up and it makes both your points pointless, this is not about if the cartridges change with a rebuild but if the change is slight enough to warrant the choice of a rebuild/retip by an outside vender and you can still enjoy that cart to the fullest. I have stated before that sometimes it does not work out but when it does, money well spent. Some people just want to listen to a different cart every day, not me, I have narrowed things down to about 4 different carts and just want to enjoy them for as long as they still produce the sound that I have come to love and enjoy. The Universe is such a sweet cart and end of the road for me that if the rebuild had not worked out well I would already be in touch with Sora Sound working a deal to replace it, instead I am just playing album after album after album after album and sitting on my hands to keep from clapping.

 I would already be in touch with Sora Sound working a deal to replace it

Do you mean to buy another ? They can not replace any refurbished cartridges as they can replace an original (even broken original) with their ZYX exchange program. 

@chakster, no I do not intend to buy another, I have my Universe back and am very satisfied with it which was the point you must have missed and at this point you are really not adding anything to the conversation for those of us who are looking to keep a good thing going for a reasonable amount of $. 

This is definitely my point of view and everyone is free to do whatever, i just don’t understand why anyone should buy $7000 cartridge to end up with SoundSmith rebuild which is no longer "ZYX sound". But it seems like this is the end of the road for all your cartridges.

One day you should try SoundSmith cartridges if you like his work so much. Peter Ledermann claimed that his MI are better than any MC in his lection at RMAF, 2018

If you think there is no difference and designers like Nakatsuka-San wasting his time to make something unique cantilever which can be replaced by SoundSmith cantilever/stylus then i definitely can’t add anything in conversation.

I enjoyed almost every cartridge until i found a better cartridge, without direct comparison between the carts it would be impossible.

I have no interest in ZYX anymore (owned two of them), but i have a better cartridges now, they are all originals, just because i like to hear what a cartridge designer created.

Recently purchased Miyabi cartridge to fill my MC collection. I think it’s something unique.

Any cartridge dramatically lose its value if it was refurbished by a third-party vendor. I decided not to bother with my broken Zyx Premium 4D and start searching for cheaper and better cartridges instead. I am so happy about my decision.  

But anyway, if you like what you’re hearing then it’s fine (for you).

@chakster, I guess my point is to you sir is, I could really care less if you get it, I do.

I just checked the first page of this thread, i had to re-read it earlier, because no one can explain better than J.Carr who is a cartridge designer himself. An this is what he said: 

To retip a cartridge that was originally equipped with a stylus made by one manufacturer with one made by a different manufacturer is like rebuilding a Porsche engine with Jaguar pistons and crankshaft - the components used for rebuilding may be of high quality, but the design philosophy is rather different from the original.

Still, as one poster wrote above, changing only the stylus will alter the sound less than if the cantilever material is changed. When a cartridge is designed, the designer will consider the moving mass (sum of the stylus, cantilever and coils), the resonant character of the cantilever, and the (sonic) propagation velocity of the cantilever (affected by the cantilever's mass and rigidity), then choose the suspension and dampers accordingly. If you change the cantilever material, you are effectively throwing the original designer's calculations away.

To tooblue,
You are lucky enough to get 2000 hours on your zyx. My airy 3 suspension at less than 1000 hours was destroyed and on my French forum 6 members got reliability problem with zyx, so for my next cartridge I have bought from another company.
I was very pleased with the sound but buying something not very reliable and then giving a big amount of money to get a new one, not for me. I have better buy a model which can easily been retipped for cheap as I listen a lot.