Have you tried to replace the spikes under your speakers, and replace them by footers ? I find a better unity in the music from my speakers, and beefy sound, and more natural music.
According to this interesting research conducted on behalf of IsoAcoustics:
"There are 3 things to think about in regards to speaker isolation.
1. Is the speaker exciting the supporting surfaces creating dissonant sounds?
2. Are structure borne noises creating anomalies within the listening area and disturbing your neighbors?
3. Is the interaction between the supporting surface and the base of the speaker causing the speaker energy to reflect internally and resulting in smear?"
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Therefore it does matter where you place your speakers as well as what you stand them on, floorboards, concrete, carpet, metal stands etc.
It also further matters how your speakers make contact with this support. This is where the differences between spikes and more compliant methods of contact can be found.
You can see from fig 6 in the link given below that the main differences in isolation between spikes and compliant support are found between 20Hz and 750Hz.
This should result in a cleaner, clearer bass that has less impact upon the midrange.
As you say, the results will depend upon individual speakers and their interactions with their surroundings.
In my case, with every speaker I’ve tried (from large Tannoy DCs to portable plastic radios) greater compliance has always been preferred.
It still doesn't mean that some speakers might not benefit from extra resonances in some situations, but attempts to isolate by compliance do seem to have become more widely adopted the audio industry in recent years. Many manufacturers are now offering an alternative to spikes.
Some, like the Funk Firm are now even offering products to isolate the cartridge from the tonearm/headshell!
This is quite a turnaround from the years when Linn were routinely recommending headshell warping levels of tightness between cartridge and the unfortunate headshell in question.
Quite revolutionary stuff that threatens to turn upside down our existing belief of how cartridges and tonearms work best.
It depends on the speakers, I liked them on Dynaudio confidence, on my ESL 63's a big no go, just made things brighter, same for my OB speakers, yes they sound cleaner, but you can lose the meat and dynamics in the midrange, while when spiking the highs and lows sick out better, but that is not always right. In this hobby they are no always a set rule for many things, you learn as you go is to stay open-minded and try things and see how it works out in your system. Live music does not sound like many spiked speaker systems I hear, take the blinders off, and find out what is best for your speakers.
Whether you prefer spikes or not it is indisputable that their use increases the amount of resonance measured in the baffle.
As usual it boils down to where you want to put those unavoidable resonances. Nowadays we are seeing a greater awareness of these issues in the design of loudspeakers and microphones.
Suspended mic's in my experience sound pretty, pretty good. Certainly on speech.
I've had the Isoacoustic Gaia II for a couple of weeks, but inconclusive as to whether bass is tightened or attenuated. They restrict box movement to front-to-back, but couldn't that result in the bass cone not pushing against a solid plane? That is, the cabinet moves back when the cone moves forward, reducing the absolute throw and transient speed of the cone? The mids do seem a little clearer. I'm on a suspended wood floor, so would a rubbery foot be worth trying?
@labtec I stand corrected! I forgot that you were not using the spikes. I actually have a Bright Star sandbox on top of my Target amp stand with my amplifier on top of the Bright Star.
Your point about chairs, listeners heights varying is, of course, quite correct. As a Vandersteen owner I am perhaps over sensitive to the height issue as Vandy's have to be pitched just right according to listener's ear height for the treble and imaging to lock in.
My listen room is 16'X24' with arced beamed ceiling with carped covered suspended 2nd floor. I used my Sennheiser condenser Calibrated mike thru real time analyzer + sweep tone generator on a mike stand toward the spot my Wilsons spiked sit on the floor above. MATERIAL USED.
Best results" 1"1/2 Birch 4 ply Rectangle 2" larger foot print the than the SASHA. Then off to the Hobby store. 5#s RED modeling clay(Zero REZ.)
Laid same 1" thick over the Birch. Ran same sweep# 2 Low Feq test. Results 80Hz>250Hz spike down 4db. Upstairs Bach Organ selection and Boston Pops Live in London RCA 6'dia Drum for the first time could now hear it's skin "MORE CLEARLY."
p.s. Not sure if green clay would have proved better?
@hifiman5 The sand box I'm referring to is actually almost identical to the the height of spikes. Bright Star audio made these sand boxes (mainly for equipment), but could be used for speakers too. You don't need the spikes, so it's not like doubling up on the height. You mainly have to customize them for your speakers since every speaker is different size nowadays. Thus, you can make them any height you want.
Also remember, that even if you double the height or it's 1-2 inches different than a spike, it's not any different than other things you have to manage if your speakers are super sensitive by a couple inches to dispersion. Chairs/couches/etc aren't all at the same height. The cushions aren't the same tension. People aren't the same weight and height. Some people slouch when seated and others don't. Thus, the size of the custom sand base you make is virtually immaterial to other things if you have speakers with very sensitive/poor dispersion. As long as you don't do anything crazy with the height of your custom sand base, you should be fine.
It's also a good time to say that I only use large line source ribbon/planar speakers (Wisdom Audio, Maggies, etc). I'm not a big fan of any point source loudspeakers that have all these hyper sensitive dispersion issues, but that's a discussion for another topic and for more reasons than just dispersion characteristics.
@labtec Ther last paragraph in your post would, if employed with most floor standing speakers, raise the tweeters much too high relative to the listening seat going against the speaker manufacturers recommendations, throwing the sound out of balance.
Note that if you live in a large (or even medium sized) tent in a desert someplace, the spikes can go right through a rug into sand and possibly fall over into a hookah...nobody needs that...
Generally, it's best to follow the directions of the speaker mfg with regard to whether use spikes or other footers based on type of floor. You especially don't want to mess with speakers that already account for a certain resonance with their cabinet. Many speakers use this to their advantage versus trying (usually in vain) to rid all cabinet resonances and floor born resonances.
On the flip side...a lot of speaker makers don't put much effort into their feet/stands. In those cases, I would actually recommend this one combo that I've found works generally well. Take the spike footers that come with most speakers/stands and insert them into Oyaide INS-BS pucks. Whether it's on wood floors or carpet, they seem to have a positive impact for a much more reasonable price than other exotic options.
Another option is to construct a sandbox with a floating top and put your speakers on top of that without spikes. Nothing dissipates the significant vibrations of speakers while also providing a solid base like sand...especially at a cost effective price.
I've experienced significant gains in transparency and cleanness of sound by decoupling my speakers from my carpeted basement room. After hearing the improvements in the main speakers, I decoupled the subs. Have great tight deep bass and greater transparency still as the ruckus inherent in subs. is not vibrating my rack mounted gear. YMMV.
If you spike a speaker into a suspended floor as in 2, you transfer the bass of the speaker into that floor, making it a sound board for the bass and ruining it.
Three points determine a plane. Four points do not necessarily determine a plane. That’s plain old plane geometry. Thus, oft times three cones will be less wobbly and sound better than four. For tall heavy speakers four cones can be a little dangerous inasmuch as if someone accidentally bumps into them they can fall over. Which is why large footprint boards should be used under the speaker with the cones under the board. Much more stable.
One thing everyone with medium weight speakers should try is adding mass to the top of the speaker, near the front. It reduces the ability of the woofers to rock the cabinet back and forth. Spikes make this tilting easier.
Every speaker, floor, room combo is unique as some here have already stated. It might take a while, and a lot of music playing, before you settle on the best combination for your sound.
I now take a variable approach, but in the learning curve past went through different stages of fixes that in time I discovered usually finding a flaw.
here’s a practical example that I went through
When I was the marketer for AudioPoints late 80’s - mid 90’s I found myself needing to do a lot of mods to the setup to get things how I and clients wanted. There is a lot of hit and miss when depending on a cone or spike to make everything perfect or even close. That brass, or other metal, zing is always waiting there to jump out at you. Metals are great but can easily throw a system out whack and lead to fatiguing. Part of the fix to this for me was designing wood Top & Bottom voicing squares. In the mid 90’s I realized I was going to need to make my own cone and spike designs and have been doing so since. Many materials, shapes, sizes and specific applications. Finding a better metal cone or spike though isn’t the end of the story as the OP points out. Developing a system that gives more flexibility to the relationship between speaker/floor/room combos is where the hobby has been heading for the last 20 or so years. Seems like a long time but look how many cones, spikes, pads, feet, platforms, springs, floors, stands and coupling and decoupling devices have been made. Shoot I design and market my own floors and whole rooms. I’ve even designed whole buildings from the ground up, and I can tell you after thousands of the systems I have worked on, there is not necessarily any quick fixes.
Recordings vary, and our Earth is made up of varying forces. And our systems, including room, are producing vibrations, waves, interactive fields, pressure and more. All of which are good things when in tune and bad things out of tune. Everyone here has their system at least slightly different from the next. Whether we agree or disagree on audio debates, you are the master of your own system and never sell yourself short as you discover things that work for you, even if no one else in the hobby seems to think your ideas have merit or not. The more you explore your system the more you are going to discover just how good it really is and how far it can take you. Many people who have moved their same system around will usually tell you that the same system in one space sounds nothing like it did when moving into another, especially from one house type to another.
These types of threads that are based on ones’ personal experience are treasures, because they show how variable this hobby is. For me, it’s like the next chapter of the hobby for HEA. Or as I say on another thread "the walk of the hobby".
Amish directions in the event you encounter an alien in an aircraft, although I’ve been under the assumption Amish folk are known to have an inborn fear of flying and deep mistrust of technology generally and aviation specifically. But I digress. In case of an alien encounter while in an aircraft,
1) Crawl under your seat & look away, 2) avoid eye contact, and 3) In the absence of eyes, avoid ALL contact.
Good of luck in your quest for the meaning of gravity and it’s opposite, comedy.
Different stuff works for different situations? Are you hot doggin me? Cut me some slack, Jack! Is that the engineer’s part of your 🧠 talking? This is your brain. 🧠 This is your brain on drugs. 🍳
I’m going to try my 70 duro 2.5" diameter x .25" thick sorbothane discs too and see how it matches up with the Vibrapods. I agree with elizabeth too. There are so many variables it's best we try a bunch of stuff. Having some good experiences/reports here to build on helps though.
mikedeu, see the comment from edstrelow, try with sorbotan or other damping thing to make tests, yes there are many different type of speakers and floor. You have to try and make tests, it is not great expenses
what footers (or spikes) work best on travertine tile flooring on solid ground. does it make a difference with boxless speakers (such as Spatial Audio)? mike
wolf_garcia I'm not getting rid of cabinet vibration with Vibrapods, I'm simply not letting it get into the floor where it can be reflected back into the speaker.
Pop quiz: find all the things wrong with that statement.
What you are doing with the vibrapods is adding mechanical damping to the speaker cabinets. I have been working on this issue for a while doing constrained damping. In my case this is sorbothane glued to the cabinet with the sorb covered with 4 layers of electrical tape. The effects are amazing.
Similar things are being done with headphones. Sennheiser used some kind of polymer damping material in the headband of its top models and I would imagine the same for their big bucks electrostat Grado uses a special polycarbonate and there are several other phones and speakers working in this line. I have my own solutions using sorbothane worked out for Stax phones. That's for another post. You can see some of the history here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/damping-mechanical-energy-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-s...
I fully expect the area of damping to develop and make other current phones and speakers obsolete. (however one can to post-hoc modifications with sorbothane to just about anything).
Getting back to the original point, I would still say that you have given up some performance from the spiking although obviously you are finding the footers much more effective. However what I am suggesting is keeping the advantages of spiking and damping. They are both aimed at getting rid of cabinet vibration.
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