Rega RP8 or Technics SL1200G
@ericsch The SL-1200G requires gymnastics to get the output cable and power cord inserted on the underside of the table. Once there they aren't easily bumped out, but garden hose cables that can't bend easily may be a non-starter for this table. I like the Morrow cables in the front end of my rig because they have to work in my rack and they are quite manageable. I'll have the PH5 from the table to my SUT, then a PH4 to my phono stage. Given how wonderful the table sounds maybe I'll bump the PH4 at some point to a 5 as well so they match.
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@ericsch I have a Morrow PH5 on order. I was hoping to have it when the table arrived but no. I'm just using the stock RCA cable for now. I have other Morrow cables in the front end of my rig so I'm expecting another improvement once that gets inserted and settles in. My retailer who sold me the table also is recommending upgrading the power cable, but admits it must be thinner and flexible the way the cords fit so tightly underneath. He is recommending the Shunyata Venom 14. I actually have that cable elsewhere so I'll probably buy another. |
I just listened to Fremer's Coliburn versus the new Technics direct-drive. It was hard(I might have even gotten them mixed up.) to hear a difference. I heard it on YouTube, but I would still advise listening in person. The areas that might differ are in the high frequencies, and I noticed a download of Fremer's turntable, at a higher resolution(192kHz/24 bit?), was especially good in the midrange. I still would try to listen to the RP8. I could speculate on what the conclusions might be between the Technics and RP8, but I refuse to do so, because I think advice like that is bad advice, without an actual live listening comparison. |
jsm71, I am highly interested in the Technics 1200G. I recently added a Tru-lift tonearm lifter to both of my TTs. Linn LP12 and Kuzma Stabi S (the pipe bomb) Needed to slightly adjust the suspension of the Linn and a 25yr old VPI magic brick came to the rescue to obtain a flat surface and bring the Tru-lift to the height needed. Both work perfectly. Could not imagine not having the Tru-lift to pickup the tonearm for me. Makes using vinyl almost as easy as CDs. The Tru-lift is more Spendy than the Qup but is more precise and adjustable. Only 3/4” in dia. Did not think that I could mount it on the Linn because of the tight space and I see that can / will be a problem with the Technics |
@tzh21y, the table is exactly what I was hoping for and expecting. All the platitudes from other users are validated. This was a large jump up for me in tables and is my last. I retire in July. The biggest improvements are simply providing gravity to the presentation without altering the tonality of my carts. Piano is richer. The macro level presentation has more weight. Bass is better controlled. Micro details are a bit more noticable. I'm now getting cymbol shimmer that I've heard on better setups but never could urge from my prior table. I attribute this to both super speed control and a much more solid platform. From a usage perspective I now have an easy way to swap cartridges. One negative, I miss the ability to use my Qup arm lift. There simply isn't an available flat spot on the plinth to place it. I now have to be attentive and deal with the end of the side. I do most of my listening just before bed and I've been awaken by the Qup clicking and lifting the arm more than once. Oh well, I can live with that. I've also grown to really like the looks. I'm using the stock RCA and power cords for now. I have an upgraded phono cable on order and I'll probably up the PC as well. My supplier claims a better PC does make a difference with the table and he isn't trying to sell me anything. The phono cable upgrade is fully warranted. Anyone else upgrade the PC and note a difference? |
jsm71 wrote: I also ordered two LP Gear Zupreme head shells (bought on Amazon however at a better price) in anticipation of the new table to serve my Lyra Delos and AT ART9 cartridges.A big +1 for the ZuPreme headshell (which is a rebadged Jelco HS-25 headshell). I've had one for 9 years. It increased dynamics and clarity from the moment I installed it on my SL1210M5G. It provides the additional advantage of adjustable azimuth, which has proved invaluable for dialing in a well-balanced soundstage. The ZuPreme is a fairly weight 14 grams, double the weight of the standard Technics headshell. However, KAB's 10g supplemental tonearm weight (scroll down to "10 Gr Aux Weight") fixes any potential imbalance problems and also increases compatibility with heavier cartridges. I have accumulated a few quality headshells that make it easy to switch among cartridges, including a nice Audio Technica HOMC mono cartridge which I use on Beatles and Beach Boys mono reissues, and also on thrift shop mono pressings. Lots of fun! |
This is not a fair comparison, but from what I've heard(on YouTube?), the RP8 sounded very good. On needle drops and in person, I found the SP10 not as good as a Linn lp12(note: the Linn was tweaked, and it was mostly the Technics 1200(old version, but somewhat tweaked) that fell (considerably) short of the Linn. These latter comparisons were on needle drops on PinkFish Media. Based on the same listening(i.e. YouTube?), the RP8 seems to be quite an upgrade from the RP6. |
I'll bite. Disagree. Speed stability is one thing, the platter pad and its ability to control resonance in the LP as the groove is tracked is another. That variable has to be eliminated (same platter pad on each machine being auditioned) before you can definitively say one is more 'explosive' than another. |
congrats @jsm71 ! I will be very interested to hear how the ART9 and Delos compare as I own the '9 and am considering the Lyra. - i'm in a similar position with turntables and am considering the G, the RP8 and the VPI prime. At the moment my main goal of the upgrade is to have a faster, more explosive / dynamic presentation. A reliable source tells me the RP 8 wins in this area. anyone agree / disagree? thanks |
@ericsch on why the replacement head shell I’m opting for the minor upgrade in head shells for yes, azimuth adjustments primarily. I’m not expecting huge gains in sound over the stock head shell, but some have said it was a step up. I also want the same head shell for comparisons between my two carts. My AT ART9 is new and not even broken in yet. Once it fully blooms I’ll do A/B testing with my Lyra Delos. Another thread on this site that focuses on the ART9 suggested by some that the ART9 might be the better cart at roughly half the cost. I want to see for myself so I have to have similar mountings. Early listening has convinced me the two are quite different. Being better depends on lots of things. The ART9 has a fuller presentation and perhaps better channel separation. The Delos is very precise with perhaps deeper and better controlled bass. Still too early for the final votes. We’ll see. The idea of having two carts I like for different things is not bad.
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@ericsch I got a chance to hear the Hana SL cart at the last Capital Audio Fest. This is a very musical sounding cart with nothing I could point my finger at as doing wrong and at its price point a strong choice. The room using the Hana was a fun and nicely balanced room run by Dr. Vinyl. The TT holding the Hana was a Pear Audio Kid Howard turntable with Cornet 2 tonearm ($4995). That puts it in the quality tier of the Technics 1200G in my mind, but I still prefer the values of DD and ease of use. I'm sure the Technics will bring out the its best. IMO the only reason the Technics isn't a $5k table is a function of Panasonic's engineering and mfg scale. I'm stealing that from other reviewer observations but I happen to agree. BTW, my other short list option was the VPI Prime, but that was based more on looks. In the end function, opinions on reliability, hearing it with my own ears, and to many respects glowing reviews for the Technics won out. Blindly, I'm sold on DD. |
@jsm71 Congratulations on getting your new TT and thanks for your comments. Your cartridge choices are awesome. For my budget, I will probably start with a Hana SL. I also have the Exact 2 on my current table with very low hours. Although I've been retired for a few years, this will also be my last turntable. I've decided to go with the Technics and will be pulling the trigger soon. |
I just ordered the Technics 1200G and it will be my retirement table. I've only owned belt drive tables but I've heard every (I believe) other approach out there and decided DD was the way to go if cogging was under control. This new table seems to have focused on solving that with its new coreless motor. It will also be a big step up for me over the Marantz TT 15S1 table I have now. I have also spent some time hearing the 1200G at a friends house who has one and that only cemented my decision. This table runs silently as every reviewer has said. I wanted to retire with a zero maintenance TT. No belts, a motor that should be at least as reliable as Technics motors of the past, and easy cart swapping with the removable head shell. The table also has easy to use features across the board for all critical setup efforts. I also ordered two LP Gear Zupreme head shells (bought on Amazon however at a better price) in anticipation of the new table to serve my Lyra Delos and AT ART9 cartridges. I can't wait for it to be shipped. |
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But I have compared the Technics to other tables such as the Kuzma, which is considerably more upscale than the Rega- if it were between the Kuzma and the Rega, I'd take the Kuzma in a heartbeat. The thing is, the Technics is able to keep up with the Kuzma (which is an excellent machine). The simple fact is, Technics did their homework and so it gives turntables costing a lot more a run for the money. IMO, most high end audio turntable manufacturers should be really worried about Technics right now. Ralph- This could get interesting, if we knew which Kuzma table you were referring to. Happy New Year! Cheers, Don |
Have you listened to an RP 8 in controlled circumstances, and if so, how did it fall short? That would seem to be of help to the OP.Likewise! Its been a while since hearing the Rega in a customer's home. So I can't say that I've compared them. But I have compared the Technics to other tables such as the Kuzma, which is considerably more upscale than the Rega- if it were between the Kuzma and the Rega, I'd take the Kuzma in a heartbeat. The thing is, the Technics is able to keep up with the Kuzma (which is an excellent machine). The simple fact is, Technics did their homework and so it gives turntables costing a lot more a run for the money. IMO, most high end audio turntable manufacturers should be really worried about Technics right now. |
I am not trying to influence anyone's decision on this, or go into debate over who's right or wrong. This is just an opinion of your fellow Audiogoner. To me in addition to extraordinary performance, the aesthetics have always been a huge and inseparable part of the audiophile gear. I never prefer one over the other, it has to be balanced. With that said, I would never allow the tractor-like looking Technics appear on top of my rack. I am sure it's a great and reliable table, I've owned MKII in the past (1996-2002). But please keep that thing away from my current setup, thank you very much. With that said, I'd go for Rega. Beautifully designed and an outstanding performer. |
Thanks everyone for your comments, they have been very helpful. @johnnyb53 , I've read both of those reviews, also one in Stereophile. One thing that no one has mentioned is the dreaded Rega hum. My P3-24 suffers from this malady through the TTPSU, I believe. It's not noticeable during playback, but it is there while idling. I'm leaning towards the Technics. I'll make a final decision after the first of the year. Thanks again. |
Here is Fremer's review of the 1200G. The 1200G is also an Absolute Sound Product of the Year in the January 2018 issue. Pretty much every review I've read of Rega TTs that measures rotation speed indicates that they run fast, whether it's an RP3, RP8, or something in between. Since the brand has been consistently (slightly) fast for years, I suspect it's intentional. If I were to guess why, perhaps to compensate for a low-torque motor combined with a stretchy belt. A high-torque design with great speed consistency has notable playback advantages, particularly maintaining tempo and volume in the face of higher groove modulation--modulation that accompanies louder passages and/or a higher number of voices and instruments. |
Two items to consider. Is the RP8 die for an update? The difference between the RP6 and P6 is substantial. Also something to think about is your listening space and isolation. The SL1200G won’t need the same level of care and placement as the Rega. Two small points in an otherwise difficult decision. My feeling is that the 1200G is superior technology over the Rega. |
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OK... Rega recognizes that coupling between the base of the arm and the platter bearing is important. Given that, they seem to be trying to save weight in the assembly, which would seem to fly in the face of the rigidity aspect. IOW the Technics is **more** rigid in this regard (employing a plinth and a case subchassis) and also more dead (employing 4 different damping schemes in the plinth/base assembly). A powerful drive is an important aspect of any turntable. In this regard you can see that all the well-regarded vintage machines (SP-10, Lenco, Garrard 301, Empire 208) have powerful drive motors. This makes a difference when dealing with needle drops and bass tracks- the speed stability is greater; the improved speed stability is not audible as pitch but you can hear it in terms of image stability. Its not enough to have a massive platter. The Technics has a decent platter (which is also damped) and a much more powerful drive then the PR-8. The tone arm of course can't be overlooked. The Technics arm, while looking the part of its earlier version, has improved bearings and arm materials, as well as the benefit of improved machining. You can adjust the VTA on the fly. Its hard to tell about the RP-8, but IIRC its does not have a VTA adjustment. For this reason your cartridge selection is limited. |
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I found the sound of the Technics rather clanky which doesn’t work for me. Is it the arm? I’m no material scientist, couldn’t tell you. Maybe the G is better in this regard.@viridian The SL-1200G is a ground-up new design, and should only be compared to older SL-1200s by looks only. In terms of sound it is considerably more neutral- it has better vibration damping, tighter speed regulation and improved materials in the tone arm. Put another way, I'm not certain I'd recommend the older SL-1200s over a Rega, but with the new one its a no-brainer. |
