Rega Planar 3 50th anniversary

I was going to jump in the middle of this thread and stir it up a bit then decided that I would just back out of the room and tip my hat to @lewm, for the patience he has shown. Enjoy the music

To find motor, start at the platter edge and follow the belt until you come to a pulley. That’s the motor. 

@goodlistening64 at 1:06 it is clearly stated, also there is type of motor mentioned on Rega website P6 page.

It seems that idiom "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" is applicable here.

@goodlistening64 "Rega cartridges do not require shims. VTA is not an issue with Rega for that fact and the cartridge sits square to the record." Again, why Rega has shims available for their tonearms?

 "Can you provide me with a motor type and location on the Rega P6? Do tell me where that information resides...perhaps you are better at finding info than I am?" You can't be serious or you like to be argumentative!

From Rega web site: 

"

@goodlistening64 " While it does look and seem as though the motor is under the plinth - rather than part of it as the plinth is only 1" thick - there is no way of telling. In truth, no TT mfg provides schematics or information that determines what or how much of the motor is where"

another nonsensical statement. There is no turntable in the world that the location of the motor can not be determined. Every manufacturer clearly identifies motor type and its location. Your Technics is direct drive type turntable, the spindle of the platter sits directly on motor shaft. If you remove the platter you will be able to see the motor. Rega turntables have motors mounted in their plinths, after removing the platter the belt around the subplatter and the motor pulley can be clearly seen. On some Rega models, with glass platter, you do not have to remove it to see the platter driving mechanism.

Regarding VTA "myth",  why then Rega provides shims for VTA adjustments?

Must be to cater to the crowd of "delusionals" 🙄

Is it possible for you simply to admit you made a few innocent but incorrect claims earlier on in this thread? I’m sure you’re a fine person regardless. I only corrected you so as to help others who may be newbies.

"The PSU is the motor that drives the platter to go round. It can be inside the plinth or a separate gizmo as you called it."

PSU stands for Power Supply Unit, it controls power to the electric motor which in case of Rega is mounted in the plinth driving the platter via belt. The purpose of PSU is for the motor to have accurate and stable RPM. The PSU can be external like Rega's or internal like some Technics' for example. There are plenty of turntables not having PSUs at all.

Goodlistening, you wrote in response to my post.

"I would guess that over 50% of "audiophiles" have not personally swapped out a cartridge. It does take a steady hand and when you get up in age and your cartridge is north of $500, it just makes sense to let someone else who is skilled at it do it for you."

I have no idea whether your estimate of the percentage of audiophiles who do not mount their own cartridges is correct or even close to correct. My post had nothing to do with that topic.  I was saying, and am saying, that one reason why Rega may purposefully limit the adjustability of their tonearms (VTA, alignment, etc) may be that they do not trust their customers to do it correctly, which has the secondary benefit (for Rega) of pointing their customers at Rega cartridges, which are in turn designed to mount on their tonearms. A tertiary benefit is they avoid unfair criticism from customers who have made an error in cartridge mounting that causes bad sound; they "idiot-proof" their products, in other words. I don't know that this is the case, just guessing.

You also wrote, "The PSU is the motor that drives the platter to go round. It can be inside the plinth or a separate gizmo as you called it. Hence, if your motor dies, you unplug the PSU and replace it."  This is not quite correct. An outboard PSU for a belt-driven turntable does not contain the motor; it typically contains a specialized AC regenerator circuit that permits the user to modify the voltage or current which the PSU puts out to the actual motor.  The motor of course drives a pulley which drives the platter via a belt.  PSUs became popular only in the last 20 years or so, to counter claims that BD turntables do not maintain constant speed in the face of stylus drag and belt creep or slippage, which phenomena can be quite audible by altering pitch, especially on piano music.  These days any self-respecting (expensive) BD TT is bound to include an outboard PSU, and for those that don't, there are numerous aftermarket devices that perform the same function.  Using a PSU has the additional benefit of blocking EMI from the motor which can otherwise get back on the AC supply for the other components of the system, which can manifest itself as noise.

In your discussion of VTA, you refer to "needles".  What you see poking out of the business end of a cartridge is the cantilever, not the needle.  The stylus (needle) is a tiny thing mounted on the end of the cantilever.  VTA is important because the angle of the stylus to the groove affects what parts of the stylus are in contact, which in turn affects tonal balance.  Most people start with the top of the cartridge parallel to the surface of the LP.  Then they adjust VTA up or down (at the pivot) to achieve what they perceive as proper tonal balance.  This is why you have to buy shims in order to mount a non-Rega cartridge on a Rega tonearm, often.

"I would guess that over 50% of "audiophiles" have not personally swapped out a cartridge."  I would say that this is way off the reality.

"The PSU is the motor that drives the platter to go round. It can be inside the plinth or a separate gizmo as you called it." This is definitely total nonsense.

Come on @goodlistening64!

@goodlistening64 

do you live around Ann Arbor?  I think I saw an Overture there.

So correct my ignorance here,but if the motor died, shouldn’t the whole thing not work?  The Rega spun discs, but as it turned out I brought the table to another reputable repair shop,on my own dime, and they confirmed that it was spinning at about 35.5 rpm.  They tried various tweaks and couldn’t fix it.  Neither the repair shop , the dealer, or Rega suggested that the motor was otherwise impaired.

  Again, the fact that Rega sold an add on to correct an issue that was inherent in their engineering, would suggest that Rega’s well known reputation for speed instability is well deserved 

@goodlistening64 

  I didn’t want to go through the whole song and dance about the experience with the Rega P5, but since you asked..

  I bought the P5 and the PSU from a reputable dealer here in Chicago.  The PSU died when it was under warranty.  Honestly the player didn’t sound any different with or without it.  I took the PSU back to the dealer.  It took almost a year to get a replacement from Rega.  This then died after a few weeks.  Back to the dealer I went, and was told that my complaint was not unique and that other customers were having trouble.  This time Rega refused to replace the PSU since the original warranty had expired.  I won’t recapitulate the back and forth between the dealer and myself.  At the time I was upset with the dealer, who I thought should compensate me in some fashion, but it really was Rega’s issue.  Since the PSU appeared to do nothing except look like an ugly paperweight I dropped it.

  Again, I query:  Why should a company have to make an extra gizmo, and charge substantial money for it, to correct an issue that proper engineering would have not allowed in the first place?  In what other industry are consumers so gullible as to shell out for something the company is admitting is faulty at the date of purchase?

I can only conclude that Rega and other companies are trying to squeeze every nickel they can from listeners well known to be obsessive about quality.

Was not a "rebuke". In your first written effort, your words made it seem you had to replace one P6 with another in order to use a new (Rega) MC cartridge. I am not a Rega-phile, but I have read often about the fixed VTA and limited alignment flexibility of Rega tonearms, should one be so bold as to want to mount a non-Rega cartridge. So I took your words at apparent face value. I think I understand why Rega are so rigid in their design philosophy. Many end users are not interested in or not capable of understanding cartridge set-up, and so there is always a risk of dissatisfaction with the product that is totally unrelated to any real shortcoming. Then those persons who have had a bad experience owing to their own ineptitude might complain on the various internet outlets, which creates a false impression that the product itself is flawed in some way. Rega are trying to take the guesswork out of cartridge selection and setup in order to avoid such unfair critiques, I think.

Is it not the case that the three point mount is relevant to changing tonearms, rather than cartridges? Or do you change cartridge by swapping in another tonearm?

I've owned an RB300 on a P3, and have two RB330s (currently unused), and their cartridge mounts are entirely conventional.

You had to buy a whole new P6 in order to change cartridges?

That’s what you wrote, and if true doesn’t that highlight a major issue with Rega TTs? Utter lack of flexibility and adjustments.

Thanks, good to know.  I was leaning towards staying with my Technics.  To tell you the truth I haven’t had a single issue with it since I had it totally refurbished.  Actually I didn’t really have an issue before that either.  I’m just always looking for the next thing.

OP

  your question is would a Rega P3 improve over a Technics Direct Drive.

I once owned a Rega P5.  They sold with an extra box that was supposed to guarantee speed stability.  I should have asked myself why they needed a separate box to cure a problem that they couldn’t fix with the base table.  With or without the box, it had terrible speed instability issues, particularly at end of side.  I had a record that had the first movement of Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata at the end of side one.  The famous piano triplets were so distorted that they sounded like an ondes martinot.  The same lp sounds superb with my Technics Direct Drive.

  I notice that reviews, particularly UK reviews, of Rega tables seem to spend a lot of time reproducing Rega measurements claiming they have solved speed instability issues.  One wonders why they doth protest so much…I simply will never invest again in a Rega table.  Fool me once…

the direct vs belt drive cults are as old as the turntable itself. If you don't mind that the Rega is 100% manual, I'd go for it. It's not an upgrade to the Technics in most aspects but different look, different design, and very likely different sound too. 

I would also make the move only if I could sell the Technics, but that's just me. 

Thanks.  You’re not making my decision any easier.  😀. The 50th anniversary edition comes with the top of the line Rega mm cartridge and the Neo PSU MK2 Power Supply and it has a faux wood plinth which I think looks great.  It seems like it’s essentially a P6 for the P3 price.  There are only a few left for sale because they were only supposed to be available in 2023, but some dealers still have a few.

I have had the P3 for a year and a half, and it's been amazing. I am planning to upgrade the needle some day. But it's dead quiet, unforgivingly accurate, and since I got a phono preamp, I have no desire to change anything, it sounds gorgeous.

That’s good to know.  I moved to my Technics from an entry level pro-ject.  I prefer the Technics and direct drive in general to my old Pro-Ject, but I’ve wondered about trying a more high end belt driven turntable.  Thanks

For same cost as new Rega Planar 3 50th, you can buy Technics SL1200GR. IMO that’s your best option. The G series are way superior to your SL1700.

Thanks a lot.  That does help.  I’m always trying to learn.  I’ll look into audiomods.

Thanks — Matt

@plasticspoon8 - I can recommend an Audiomods Arm for your Technics SL-1700 mk. 1

Jeff , at audiomods can fabricate a mounting plate for your turntable that makes installation a doddle.

His arms are amazing and will elevate your TT to performance levels equalling some very expensive TT’s.

I purchased the earlier Series 3 arm 12 years ago  and have never looked back.

Get the one piece harness with the KLE Innovations RCA plugs and if you change cartridges often, opt for the Micrometer VTA adjustment

It will cost rougly the same as the Rega TT and sound so much better

I use a Soundsmith modified Denon 103 with a Moon LP 5.3 RS phono stage and the sound is extremely detailed, very musical with an amazing 3D image.

Hope that helps - Steve

Regards - Steve

Thanks a lot for your advice, I appreciate it.  

Thank you 

In the UK this is being offered for £899

The spiel from the Producer is to be seen in the Link.

 https://www.rega.co.uk/products/planar-3-50th-anniversary-edition