Rega Planar 3 50th anniversary

In the UK this is being offered for £899

The spiel from the Producer is to be seen in the Link.

 https://www.rega.co.uk/products/planar-3-50th-anniversary-edition

Thank you 

I had the Exact 2 MM cartridge for a couple of years and really enjoyed it on my Rega 6. If you can afford the extra $500 or so it would take to get into a P6 with Exact, you will go well beyond the Technics in sound.

But as you know, a turntable is only as good as the TT preamp. Hence, you may want to consider going with the P3 Anniversary table with Exact 2 and add a Rega Fono preamp which would be about the same price as a P6 with Exact 2. Guess you need to dial in your price point. I would also encourage you to, at some point, to add the Rega Couple 3 cable as it perfectly matches Rega turntables and cartridges. It sells for $150.

Thanks a lot for your advice, I appreciate it.  

@plasticspoon8 - I can recommend an Audiomods Arm for your Technics SL-1700 mk. 1

Jeff , at audiomods can fabricate a mounting plate for your turntable that makes installation a doddle.

His arms are amazing and will elevate your TT to performance levels equalling some very expensive TT’s.

I purchased the earlier Series 3 arm 12 years ago  and have never looked back.

Get the one piece harness with the KLE Innovations RCA plugs and if you change cartridges often, opt for the Micrometer VTA adjustment

It will cost rougly the same as the Rega TT and sound so much better

I use a Soundsmith modified Denon 103 with a Moon LP 5.3 RS phono stage and the sound is extremely detailed, very musical with an amazing 3D image.

Hope that helps - Steve

Regards - Steve

Thanks a lot.  That does help.  I’m always trying to learn.  I’ll look into audiomods.

Thanks — Matt

For same cost as new Rega Planar 3 50th, you can buy Technics SL1200GR. IMO that’s your best option. The G series are way superior to your SL1700.

That’s good to know.  I moved to my Technics from an entry level pro-ject.  I prefer the Technics and direct drive in general to my old Pro-Ject, but I’ve wondered about trying a more high end belt driven turntable.  Thanks

I have had the P3 for a year and a half, and it's been amazing. I am planning to upgrade the needle some day. But it's dead quiet, unforgivingly accurate, and since I got a phono preamp, I have no desire to change anything, it sounds gorgeous.

Thanks.  You’re not making my decision any easier.  😀. The 50th anniversary edition comes with the top of the line Rega mm cartridge and the Neo PSU MK2 Power Supply and it has a faux wood plinth which I think looks great.  It seems like it’s essentially a P6 for the P3 price.  There are only a few left for sale because they were only supposed to be available in 2023, but some dealers still have a few.

the direct vs belt drive cults are as old as the turntable itself. If you don't mind that the Rega is 100% manual, I'd go for it. It's not an upgrade to the Technics in most aspects but different look, different design, and very likely different sound too. 

I would also make the move only if I could sell the Technics, but that's just me. 

OP

  your question is would a Rega P3 improve over a Technics Direct Drive.

I once owned a Rega P5.  They sold with an extra box that was supposed to guarantee speed stability.  I should have asked myself why they needed a separate box to cure a problem that they couldn’t fix with the base table.  With or without the box, it had terrible speed instability issues, particularly at end of side.  I had a record that had the first movement of Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata at the end of side one.  The famous piano triplets were so distorted that they sounded like an ondes martinot.  The same lp sounds superb with my Technics Direct Drive.

  I notice that reviews, particularly UK reviews, of Rega tables seem to spend a lot of time reproducing Rega measurements claiming they have solved speed instability issues.  One wonders why they doth protest so much…I simply will never invest again in a Rega table.  Fool me once…

Thanks, good to know.  I was leaning towards staying with my Technics.  To tell you the truth I haven’t had a single issue with it since I had it totally refurbished.  Actually I didn’t really have an issue before that either.  I’m just always looking for the next thing.

@mahler123

Obviously, you had a bad power supply/motor with the Rega P5 you once owned. Unless your turntable is automatic (most are not), the most common problem with any turntable is the motor. 

I have owned numerous turntables from Pro-Ject, Rega, and one of my first, a Stanton. One of the things I learned is that the majority of turntables have the motor integrated into the plinth. From an engineering standpoint, it makes no sense. Motors create vibration which when buried in the plinth makes the vibration much harder to dissipate. As I moved up in Pro-Jects over time, it culminated in owning a Pro-Ject 9 Xtension. I saw it as my last TT purchase. Figured there would be no vibration in a TT costing north of $3K.

With the Pro-Ject 9 I could tap on the plinth and hear the taps in my speakers - it was a sounding board. However, it did still sound good. After a while I realized it was because of the Sumiko Songbird cartridge. I guess it was a trade-off, but when the motor died within the warranty period, it was a huge mess. A TT that weighs 35lbs of turntable is a beast to ship in for repair. After the second motor started making a noise like the first one, I sold it. I lost at least 2K. The worst purchase I made as an Audiophile.

When I got my first Rega P6 - with the separate PSU - I was taken aback at how black the background was vs. the Pro-Jects. The heavy vs. light TT debate was an obvious win for Rega. I mean, if I were to have an issue with speed, I would just get another PSU. Problem solved. Easy as pie.

Pro-Ject's owners wife started a new company called EAT. The high-end EAT turntable incorporates a separate PSU just like Rega. If there is anything wrong with Pro-Ject tables it is the motor being a part of the plinth. If anyone asks me what I think the best Pro-Ject table is I would say the EAT C Sharp!

The Rega P5 was discontinued in 2011. In your case, all you needed to do to fix the problem with it was to swap out for another PSU. Owners seem to be happy with them. Bad motors happen, inside the plinth or not. I would be remiss in not mentioning that the motor in the Pro-Ject 9 was unique (maybe proprietary) and not used in other Pro-Ject tables. Not true with Rega's. One external PSU fits all.

I am on my second P6. The first one had the Exact MM cartridge which was the best MM cartridge I had owned. But having owned MC cartridges on my Pro-Jects, I wanted an MC Cartridge which is why I got a new one with the Ania installed.

The P6 and likely the P3 Anniversary edition, is a superior TT with reference to speed stability. No longer am I looking at a long rubber band - that sometimes slips off and is a chore to put back on - on a Pro-Ject wondering how I will know when it becomes time to change it out for a new one. For all the experience I had with Pro-Ject TT's, I am a bit miffed that I kept going back considering I worked with engineers for years (I am not an engineer) but for some reason (probably because Pro-Ject does use good cartridges) I did not consider the setup to be an engineering fault. My bad; you live and you learn.

You had to buy a whole new P6 in order to change cartridges?

That’s what you wrote, and if true doesn’t that highlight a major issue with Rega TTs? Utter lack of flexibility and adjustments.

@lewm 

What an amusing rebuke. 

I purchased the first Rega P6 from craigslist.

The second P6 was new. It included the new chassis that Rega upgraded on their PSU offering (more metal; less plastic) as well as the reference belt (also included with new TT's), so there were reasons to buy new rather than to swap out cartridges. I also got a different color. 

FYI, Rega TT's are the most flexible and easiest to swap out cartridges because of the 3-point mounts. 

Is it not the case that the three point mount is relevant to changing tonearms, rather than cartridges? Or do you change cartridge by swapping in another tonearm?

I've owned an RB300 on a P3, and have two RB330s (currently unused), and their cartridge mounts are entirely conventional.

Was not a "rebuke". In your first written effort, your words made it seem you had to replace one P6 with another in order to use a new (Rega) MC cartridge. I am not a Rega-phile, but I have read often about the fixed VTA and limited alignment flexibility of Rega tonearms, should one be so bold as to want to mount a non-Rega cartridge. So I took your words at apparent face value. I think I understand why Rega are so rigid in their design philosophy. Many end users are not interested in or not capable of understanding cartridge set-up, and so there is always a risk of dissatisfaction with the product that is totally unrelated to any real shortcoming. Then those persons who have had a bad experience owing to their own ineptitude might complain on the various internet outlets, which creates a false impression that the product itself is flawed in some way. Rega are trying to take the guesswork out of cartridge selection and setup in order to avoid such unfair critiques, I think.

@goodlistening64 

  I didn’t want to go through the whole song and dance about the experience with the Rega P5, but since you asked..

  I bought the P5 and the PSU from a reputable dealer here in Chicago.  The PSU died when it was under warranty.  Honestly the player didn’t sound any different with or without it.  I took the PSU back to the dealer.  It took almost a year to get a replacement from Rega.  This then died after a few weeks.  Back to the dealer I went, and was told that my complaint was not unique and that other customers were having trouble.  This time Rega refused to replace the PSU since the original warranty had expired.  I won’t recapitulate the back and forth between the dealer and myself.  At the time I was upset with the dealer, who I thought should compensate me in some fashion, but it really was Rega’s issue.  Since the PSU appeared to do nothing except look like an ugly paperweight I dropped it.

  Again, I query:  Why should a company have to make an extra gizmo, and charge substantial money for it, to correct an issue that proper engineering would have not allowed in the first place?  In what other industry are consumers so gullible as to shell out for something the company is admitting is faulty at the date of purchase?

I can only conclude that Rega and other companies are trying to squeeze every nickel they can from listeners well known to be obsessive about quality.

@lewm 

I would guess that over 50% of "audiophiles" have not personally swapped out a cartridge. It does take a steady hand and when you get up in age and your cartridge is north of $500, it just makes sense to let someone else who is skilled at it do it for you.

As for the VTA, I find vertical alignment a bit mystifying. An arm drops and as long as the weight of the arm is set correctly to match the needle, I do not understand all the controversy. I have a small scale that confirms the weight of the needle when it hits the record.

I have found that Rega cartridges do not have elongated needles and so the cartridge sits closer to the record. In contrast, the Sumiko Songbird I had has a long hollow needle that extends well beyond the cartridge which can be a setup for disaster. Just a micro touch of side by side, or perhaps a drop of the needle at a weight that is too heavy could easily break the needle. A cartridge such as the Songbird really does require caution, whereas the Rega cartridges are far more durable, if you will. It is part of the Rega selling point - just play records! - and don't worry about the technical side show that some TT's & cartridges require.

@mahler123 

The PSU is the motor that drives the platter to go round. It can be inside the plinth or a separate gizmo as you called it. Hence, if your motor dies, you unplug the PSU and replace it. 

The engineers chose to do it this way to reduce vibration at the table and when you can put the PSU on a different shelf it isolates the table which results in a black background and silent operation. 

Sorry to hear about your dealer fiasco. The industry has been under duress for 20 some years with many brick and mortar stores going under and the lone dealer left in my area - Overture - is only mildly interested in customer service for those not spending multiple thousands. Sign of the times.

@goodlistening64 

do you live around Ann Arbor?  I think I saw an Overture there.

So correct my ignorance here,but if the motor died, shouldn’t the whole thing not work?  The Rega spun discs, but as it turned out I brought the table to another reputable repair shop,on my own dime, and they confirmed that it was spinning at about 35.5 rpm.  They tried various tweaks and couldn’t fix it.  Neither the repair shop , the dealer, or Rega suggested that the motor was otherwise impaired.

  Again, the fact that Rega sold an add on to correct an issue that was inherent in their engineering, would suggest that Rega’s well known reputation for speed instability is well deserved 

"I would guess that over 50% of "audiophiles" have not personally swapped out a cartridge."  I would say that this is way off the reality.

"The PSU is the motor that drives the platter to go round. It can be inside the plinth or a separate gizmo as you called it." This is definitely total nonsense.

Come on @goodlistening64!

@mahler123   Overture, Wilmington DE. There are only two pieces that could interfere with speed. The motor or the belt. Theoretically, one could use a platter that is too heavy. Can't fathom anything else. 

@knock1 explain yourself? 

Goodlistening, you wrote in response to my post.

"I would guess that over 50% of "audiophiles" have not personally swapped out a cartridge. It does take a steady hand and when you get up in age and your cartridge is north of $500, it just makes sense to let someone else who is skilled at it do it for you."

I have no idea whether your estimate of the percentage of audiophiles who do not mount their own cartridges is correct or even close to correct. My post had nothing to do with that topic.  I was saying, and am saying, that one reason why Rega may purposefully limit the adjustability of their tonearms (VTA, alignment, etc) may be that they do not trust their customers to do it correctly, which has the secondary benefit (for Rega) of pointing their customers at Rega cartridges, which are in turn designed to mount on their tonearms. A tertiary benefit is they avoid unfair criticism from customers who have made an error in cartridge mounting that causes bad sound; they "idiot-proof" their products, in other words. I don't know that this is the case, just guessing.

You also wrote, "The PSU is the motor that drives the platter to go round. It can be inside the plinth or a separate gizmo as you called it. Hence, if your motor dies, you unplug the PSU and replace it."  This is not quite correct. An outboard PSU for a belt-driven turntable does not contain the motor; it typically contains a specialized AC regenerator circuit that permits the user to modify the voltage or current which the PSU puts out to the actual motor.  The motor of course drives a pulley which drives the platter via a belt.  PSUs became popular only in the last 20 years or so, to counter claims that BD turntables do not maintain constant speed in the face of stylus drag and belt creep or slippage, which phenomena can be quite audible by altering pitch, especially on piano music.  These days any self-respecting (expensive) BD TT is bound to include an outboard PSU, and for those that don't, there are numerous aftermarket devices that perform the same function.  Using a PSU has the additional benefit of blocking EMI from the motor which can otherwise get back on the AC supply for the other components of the system, which can manifest itself as noise.

In your discussion of VTA, you refer to "needles".  What you see poking out of the business end of a cartridge is the cantilever, not the needle.  The stylus (needle) is a tiny thing mounted on the end of the cantilever.  VTA is important because the angle of the stylus to the groove affects what parts of the stylus are in contact, which in turn affects tonal balance.  Most people start with the top of the cartridge parallel to the surface of the LP.  Then they adjust VTA up or down (at the pivot) to achieve what they perceive as proper tonal balance.  This is why you have to buy shims in order to mount a non-Rega cartridge on a Rega tonearm, often.

@mahler123 ..or perhaps the pcb board (controller)? Cannot imagine how that could be faulty especially new.

"The PSU is the motor that drives the platter to go round. It can be inside the plinth or a separate gizmo as you called it."

PSU stands for Power Supply Unit, it controls power to the electric motor which in case of Rega is mounted in the plinth driving the platter via belt. The purpose of PSU is for the motor to have accurate and stable RPM. The PSU can be external like Rega's or internal like some Technics' for example. There are plenty of turntables not having PSUs at all.

@knock1     

Well thanks for the tutorial. The NEO is not just a power supply but also includes the control board for speed. While it does look and seem as though the motor is under the plinth - rather than part of it as the plinth is only 1" thick - there is no way of telling. In truth, no TT mfg provides schematics or information that determines what or how much of the motor is where. If you find that information, or know where to find it, that would be helpful. But it is merely for the sake of understanding how something works, which has always been a curiosity of mine. It is why I visit this site. 

Per Rega site: 

The Neo MK2 PSU is an advanced turntable power supply providing user controllable fine speed adjustment, an advanced anti-vibration motor circuit and the convenience of electronic speed change.

Also stated on the Rega site is that the NEO "reduces motor noise", and such engineering (separate pieces) is far better than the wall wart I got with the Pro-Ject 9 TT that was twice the price. Some may see the extension of the motor in another piece of equipment as poor engineering (such as @mahler123). Howerver, like him, I had a motor failure (or a mystifying reason for a TT failure) as he did and that does not go away. Not angry about it anymore, but I won't forget it either. 

@lewm 

I think Rega sees VTA as a non-starter as do I. VTA adjustments on all my previous tables (if you can call it an adjustment) proved nothing. Per the in-depth analysis below provides, there is a contention of science being involved, but it ends up just being a myth. I get that it is controversial, but dropping the needle is just that..if the weight is correct..then the rest is somehow suggesting that not all records are the same, as if we all should be paying attention to the arc of each and every vinyl groove. Turns out, to VTA believers, that not all records are cut the same and perhaps adjustments should be made for every record played.

https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/vta_e.html

I am an older guy. Cantilever is not a term that I use often, and I do not retain as well as I once did, but for arguments sake it is also called the needle. Let's just stay with "put the needle on the record" as it sounds far better than a specific alternative. 

It is disturbing to me that a Pro-Ject 9 - or even the 10 for that matter Pro-Ject's flagship TT - comes with a wall wart. I get that there are after market power supplies. But for me, the Rega power supply is an engineering win and Pro-Ject seems to be lacking. Perhaps I am just venting, but Rega engineering solves a lot of problems inherent in Pro-Ject TT's, IMHO.

Is it possible for you simply to admit you made a few innocent but incorrect claims earlier on in this thread? I’m sure you’re a fine person regardless. I only corrected you so as to help others who may be newbies.

@lewm

I don't understand. Please explain?

@goodlistening64 " While it does look and seem as though the motor is under the plinth - rather than part of it as the plinth is only 1" thick - there is no way of telling. In truth, no TT mfg provides schematics or information that determines what or how much of the motor is where"

another nonsensical statement. There is no turntable in the world that the location of the motor can not be determined. Every manufacturer clearly identifies motor type and its location. Your Technics is direct drive type turntable, the spindle of the platter sits directly on motor shaft. If you remove the platter you will be able to see the motor. Rega turntables have motors mounted in their plinths, after removing the platter the belt around the subplatter and the motor pulley can be clearly seen. On some Rega models, with glass platter, you do not have to remove it to see the platter driving mechanism.

Regarding VTA "myth",  why then Rega provides shims for VTA adjustments?

Must be to cater to the crowd of "delusionals" 🙄

@knock1 

Every manufacturer clearly identifies motor type and its location. Your Technics is direct drive type turntable, the spindle of the platter sits directly on motor shaft

Can you provide me with a motor type and location on the Rega P6? Do tell me where that information resides...perhaps you are better at finding info than I am?

I do not have a Technics turntable. 

@knock1 

Rega cartridges do not require shims. VTA is not an issue with Rega for that fact and the cartridge sits square to the record. 

Tell me what VTA does for you? How does a VTA setting create better sound?

@goodlistening64 "Rega cartridges do not require shims. VTA is not an issue with Rega for that fact and the cartridge sits square to the record." Again, why Rega has shims available for their tonearms?

 "Can you provide me with a motor type and location on the Rega P6? Do tell me where that information resides...perhaps you are better at finding info than I am?" You can't be serious or you like to be argumentative!

From Rega web site: 

"

@knock1 

Nice video. Says nothing about location of/and or motor type. Doesn't even show the bottom of the plinth. If you can't get me the motor type, just say so. I own one, so without taking apart to find a part number and voiding the warranty, we both will remain in the dark on this issue. Unless you have an epiphany?

A shim would be used for high-profile cartridges, but not required for any Rega cartridge. Not sure how that makes the TT any less desirable considering the Rega sound is all inclusive, but I have seen many modified as well, usually with Hana or Sumiko carts.

@goodlistening64 at 1:06 it is clearly stated, also there is type of motor mentioned on Rega website P6 page.

It seems that idiom "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" is applicable here.

The video provides the same specification as in, um, the specifications! 

If you need a new motor, from Pro-Ject, or Rega, your gonna have to call the manufacturer of the table. There is scant information in the specs because they don't want you to be able to buy one off the shelf. Heck, if all info was available for public consumption, you could just make your own Rega! Some motors are proprietary to an exact table, like the Pro-Ject 9. But I have found the Rega line is equally mysterious about a replacement motor for my RP6...but I already knew that...and that you were going to fail miserably!

To find motor, start at the platter edge and follow the belt until you come to a pulley. That’s the motor. 

I was going to jump in the middle of this thread and stir it up a bit then decided that I would just back out of the room and tip my hat to @lewm, for the patience he has shown. Enjoy the music