Rega P10 v Complete rebuild Garrard 401!

Thanks. Good info. I'd strongly recommend changing the idler. AudioSilente have one for around $120 and Artisan Fidelity $400. 

Thanks scar972.  Think we are all on lock-down right now.  Plus I’m pretty sure I’m going to go with the 401 and work with Chris.  

I looked at your pictures...wow what a system.  Looks like you have everything set up in your media room.  I’ve been tempted to do the same thing as the family rarely watches movies there anymore, plus I think the acoustics would be much better.  Just a bit cramped with all the other stuff I have in there. 

Curious where did you get your 401? And if you bought one that was not refurbished, where did you have it rebuilt?
best!

Hey Gunner.
If I were you, I would grab that Canadian 301:
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649600198-garrard-301-rosewood-shick-12-emt-tsd15-stillpoints/
A great deal at $5K!
Complete with good cartridge and good arm. It looks beautiful.
You would have a 301 for life!
There's that recommendation of his friend:

I just noticed talk about the 301 in Vancouver. The owner is a good friend of mine named Sam. He replaced it with a nauntais 301 fully done out with the big power supply. He also had a fr64s he  mentioned maybe selling. You could maybe work a deal with the arm if that arm interests you. Our dollar is very low right now too.

@mglik That 301 in Canada is pick up only.

@gunners01I purchased my 401 from a friend in Dallas, it has not been professionally refurbished and I feel this isn’t necessary if your Garrard is in decent condition. I enjoy being hands on which means I clean, lubricate, change out pulley, spark suppressor, etc. myself. They are relatively easy to work on, I also worked on the 301 myself. Garrards are built to last, and need very little maintenance to get going. Feel free to PM me if you’re needing any help along the way since we’re both in DFW.

I am also in the DFW area. Contemplating between a tricked out Garrard 401 or Fern and Roby Montrose...

I drive an Alfa Romeo - should that make my decision easier? :)

petey153 posts

All things considered you should buy the Garrard. It will be far less painful and more rewarding than your car proclivities 

OP just dropped off the radar. Hope he's okay.

Looks like you know your Garrard and Alfa Romeos...

Appreciate your advice - thanks!

I am going for it. I’ve found an early model 401 (22k sn, flat light cover) in great shape. Getting it properly rebuilt, painted and set up with DAC piano black layered machined plinth. Schick 12” tonearm, two Schick graphite headshells, Hana mono and stereo cartridges, Seperate 301 power supply.

Now the question is what to put between it and my Klipch Forte III speakers. I’ve recently acquired a Modwright ph 9.0 phono amp and I still have my Croft acoustics micro 25 preamp and series 7 amp. Bypassing the built in mm Croft phono stage, the ph 9.0 takes it to another level by far. Still tinkering with that, but not sure if it’s a mismatch with the Croft system. Would appreciate any advice there. I’m going for the tube sound.

good to know there are other enthusiasts in DFW! Thanks.

@petey15 Good for you! Have you rolled tubes in the Croft? What mismatch?

Oh, hey. Thanks for the response @noromance!@noromance!

Interesting you should ask. I upgraded both the amp and preamp right after I bought them to telefunken 12AX7’s. Got them from VTS in Michigan. Says “perfect mirror matched”. Even came in the original packaging from 69’. The modwright also has the upgraded tubes, the Sovtek’s and GE 6DJ8.

The issue I’m having is that even on the lowest volume setting it’s really loud, even with the gain setting on low on the phono amp. That’s what I meant by “mismatch”.

I’m wondering if my cartridge is the problem. I’m using a Clearaudio Maestro 2 which I believe is a high output cartridge. Other than the volume issue it sounds great with the Modwright.

And, that’s an MM cartridge...

Try a 12AT7 in the Croft line stage.

Is that a telefunken? And which one is the line stage?

Well, you're bypassing the phono stage, so you're just using the line stage. It's the third tube from the left. 

I have a 401 that is still set up 220 and has the 50hz pully, and 50hz strobe. I've changed 6-8 through the years. Easy. I sometimes swap the top if I find a deal. Been in a box for 15 years. I gave up on Garrards. I love um, but I use to work at a machine shop.. They fixed Sparta, QRK, and Russco platters.. I know I have 5 or 6 left.. I call the Garrard Killers..

They are TWICE as big, and twice the weight easy.. 9-16" tonearms.

I'm doing one out of black oak / red oak with Queen Ann Legs, very different...Matches my speakers with Queen Anns.. Close..:-)

HD, LOL 24/7 365 /  forever.. Just oil and maintain. Mine are all pulls from FM radio stations.. Just rollers and there is a few tricks to get the platter REAL quiet..

750 Fairchild, I had one that was nicked... Actually my all time favorite..

I like TD124 too, I have a couple.. For a smaller footprint, I think its pretty good also..

Regards

Still here and following the thread.  Fairly sure I will do the 301 but will likely pair my Harbeths with a pair of REL S812s first.  
Likely starting a new job in the new year. Once over that hurdle I will reach out to Chris at Woodsong and have him build a 301 for me.  
Since I still seem to have people’s attention, what phono pre-amp do you recommend?   Chris recommended something to me (I can’t recall) and I think he is trying to get a rep deal for them.  I currently have a Vincent Pho-701.  I’ve already rolled the tube (per counsel multiple places including Upscale Audio).   I’m happy with it but Chris at Woodsong swore blindly about the one he recommended.  What say you?

@gunners01 Allnic H1201? 

@noromance 
yea, that may well be what chris suggested but can’t say for certain.  What I can say is that a) sounds familiar and b) that was about the price point.  
Just read reviews on it and nothing but superlatives.  
Have one?  More superlatives?

Hi Gunners01

if it was Chris at Woodsong I’m betting he recommended the Modwright PH 9.0 phono amp. I got one on his recommendation and it’s awesome, but I’m having some integration issues with my current Croft Series 7 power amp

So, it appears that Chris did use the Allnic 1201 when it was a current model but is now a dealer for Modwright. 

Decware ZP3 valve with Reel to Reel option..
Herron VTPH2 valve
Pass XP15 or 17 SS

Regards

Congrats on the choice of a Woodsong Garrard,
I have his 301 in the very substantial plinth. I prefer the look and feel of the 301 over the 401.
But I understand the performance is comparable.
My plinth is the dual arm board one. Excellent design and super solid. Chris is clearly one of the most knowledgable and skillful guys, He does all the work himself and is a perfectionist.

My Garrard 301 was fully refurbished by James Campbell  jec@afo.net in Pennsylvania. I also use his unfinished wood plinth for 12" arm.
My arm is the original Ortofon RMG 309. I use SPU cartridges -- Silver Meister MKii, Gold Reference, and a mono.
My phono preamp is Magi Phonomenal. SUT is Live! MC-10 with Hashimoto HM-3.
Overall spent less than $4K without cartridges. 
Just for a reference. 

I’d like to know if it is possible with the REGA 3000 tonearm To changeVTA and azimuth or not ? I hear about spacers for dialing VTA… who can explain to me please ?

@senza 

I don't think it's anything to worry about. I never got any joy with mucking about with VTA once I'd set the cartridge alignment and tracking weight as optimally as I could.

It doesn't appear that Rega are too concerned with it either.

However, in the case of unorthodox cartridge shapes I believe that a adjuster/spacer is available if required by courtesy of Origin Live.

https://www.analogueseduction.net/origin-live-parts-and-accessories/origin-live-rega-rb-250300600-vta-adjuster.html

 

The spacers for Rega arms are designed to go between the arm base and plinth under the three screws.  Some are individual shims allowing one to raise the arm by a millimeter or more, some are designed to have a few different options in the spacer so you have different options depending on the orientation of circular shaped spacer when you insert them.  You can only raise the back of the arm but since Rena arms are designed to work with their cartridges which are on the shorter side raising options are probably most efficacious. 

can I just say that the Rega and Garrard appear in very different parts of the audio spectrum. The Rega is like a light sportscar and the Garrard a large 4X4.  The Rega is all about a lightness and quickness of sound without overhang - the Garrard is very muscular. They have great timing in common. Try and get to an audio show and you will get a chance to hear the type of sound that they make. I must say I always find it amusing that people using Garrards with their amazing bass often use valve amps - even single ended - yes i know some valve amps can do bass but... I digress.