tomic601,
You probably want somethijng with an omnidirectional pattern, or a mic with a selectable pattern. Used mics are a bargin and ususally the older the better. Look for AKG, Audio Technica, Sure, Nueman and Sony. They all made outstanding mics. I usually go to a session with a couple of omni's and at least one directional, depending on crowd noise. You can usually get good stereo and soundstage by monitioring one or two songs. From there its just set back, listen and watch the meters.
I have used boards in the past or even in some cases just plugged in to the exisitng souond board, but don't be afraid to just record straight to the deck. It's made for that and the ReVox has an incredible 24db of headroom. Thats the highest for any consumer deck.
Obviouly running a 15ips is best for recording live.
Norman
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thanks Norman
The digital vs. analog experiment will be fun.
what are your top 5 mics to look for used and what do you use them for ? |
Tomic601,
You will love recording with the ReVox. I have a B77 series 1, that I used to use extensively. Get a couple of good used mics to start with with and plug directly into the ReVox. You will be floored at how good a recording you can get with two well placed mics.
I've never really cared for recording with digital. It's certainly easier and less costly.
But don't stop there with the ReVox. Tape your favorite LP's, make mixed tapes of favorites. Even try recording your best CDs. You will be stunned at how they come out on tape.
And certainly get get all the master copies you can.
Enjoy!
Norman |
love this thread BTW..thanks for all posts..
i may have sailed over the edge...
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Revox B77 mk 2 with IEC board, just got it. Like others have Opus 3 tape on way..collecting bits needed to record live..have access thru church to some incredible talent..blessed. plan is Ayre A to D then direct to drives so i can compare analog tape at 15 IPS to digital A/ B with minimal changes to chain....
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Mike, I used to have a 3300SX. Fantastic machine. Mine was super smooth. I would imagine that your recordings are as excellent reproductions of your vinyl collection. I actually do the same as you with my favorite vinyl. The TASCAM would be a little better for live recording, as it has a little more headroom than the TEAC. I believe the heads are exactly the same however. You should check here for some second generation master copies. There is nothing quite like them. http://avshowroomsforums.com/showthread.php?5-Companies-Currently-Producing-15ips-Reel-to-Reel-tapes...! Norman |
I have a Tascam 32 upstairs for high speed half track recordings of my LPs. The 45 RPM vinyl recordings can have you up and down often to flip the record, so archiving them to tape makes sense. The quality is outstanding, but it eats up some tape. I have a Teac 3300SX, half track machine downstairs where there is no turntable. I can play the tapes there and get close to the vinyl repro quality. I agree with the comments from folks that have never been exposed to open reel decks. I would like to do some live music recording, but have not done that yet.
Mike
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inna,
I know. We should all be doing it. I recently came across a collection of 10" 33 1/3 lps. Miles, Evans, Talyor, etc… I haven't listened to all of them, but every song on them is currently out of print.
We should begin making lists of rare recordings! I also have a pretty large collection of classical, even though it's my least listened too genre.
I purchased it about 10 years ago, and have only gotten through maybe a third of the Lp's.
Most of my LP's are classic rock and jazz.
I have a hard drive with something like 64,000 songs on it. It is a copy of a hard drive from a classic radio station. It's great fun. When I think I might want to buy a classic rock LP, but I'm not sure if l will like it, I can actually listen to it first via the hard drive. =) I make copies and give them away as gifts. Great for when your having guests over and need music in the back ground for hours on end.
I would happily make half track recordings of LP's to share. We all should.
Norman
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Norman, that's a great idea. My friend used to do the same for me, though with cassettes not reels. |
Back in the early 80's, an audio friend of mine who was also a jazz fan would record some of his rare out of print LP's to 15ips half track and send them to me for a listen. They are some of my most treasured recordings. I would likewise reciprocate when I came across a rare find.
It was great fun and a wonderful way to enjoy music you would otherwise never be able to obtain.
We should do that again. As a community it would open all kinds of doors to great music. (Talking about stuff that's out of print).
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Inna,
This is an excellent point. Today manufacturing can be controlled and quality maintained alomost anywhere.
Even without waiting for a new machine to appear, one can buy a quality used open reel deck and have it refurbished for under $2500.00 total and have an excellent sounding system.
As I was reading your post tonight I was thinking about the two new second generation masters I ordered from abc records. More titles coming online all the time.
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If you think of it, open reel deck based analog set-up could be far less expensive than those ridiculously overpriced record playing rigs. $2k machine should sound excellent, and it doesn't have to be made in China. Make them in Poland or Czech Republic if Germany US or Japan are difficult. Switzerland is certainly difficult. |
topoxfordoc,
And this is why those old companies (Sony, Studer, TEAC, Pioneer, AKAI, Tandberg, Nagra, Otari, etc., ) need to get back to manufacturing machines again. If they could build one that was economical enough, those who love the analog sound would purchase such a machine. That and the continued availability of second generations masters is what is needed for this to work. At this time, it's better than it has been in years, but new machines are needed for this to take off like LP's have.
N. |
Hi Norman,
Well, 1/2" masters/safety copies/dubs, etc. are catch as catch can! From what I've read, 16-track Studer rec/rep heads are rather scarce. An A827MCH outfitted with the aforementioned heads would be awesome! :-)
Best,
Sam
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Sam,
Yes definitely. They did have a 2" 16 track machine but that was in another studio. The 24 track machine was an MCI, the 16 track machine was a Sony, but I don't remember which model.
I am wondering where you were able to find 1/2 inch masters, and who uses them? I know that the old Studer 37 could be configured for 1/2 tape, but I think that was a four track machine.
Norman |
inna,
I was thinking the same thought, but now I am wondering. When I
last worked in a studio they were using two inch tape for 24 tracks at
30ips and then mixing the masters down to half track quater inch tape at
15ips.
I would imagine that if you were recording live to half
track half inch there would certainly be an advantage. It's silly, I
don't even know where I would put another machine, but I can't help
thinking about it. =)
N I've read that 16 tracks on 2" sounds quite fine! Norman, was the studio recording primarily rock? Sam |
I record CD and vinyl onto 1/4" tape at 15ips. Sounds much better. I reserve it for something special though.
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China. Yes. Awesome selection. www.abcrecords.com (you will get a warning message as its china but it is safe site). |
Cerrot,
Is that from the abc records japan? The US company was purchased by MCA in 1979. I would be interested in some abc titles.
Norman |
I just got my Louie Armstrong 15ips IEC tape from abc records and could not believe it. I have St James Infirmary as well as Summertime (with Ella) on every medium you can think of and the best ever is the 15ips. |
Sam,
Yes, I use the KM184's into the RT-1050. I have also used them with the Crown 822. Finding venues here in the Chicago area is easy. Most will let you set and and record their performance, especially if you promise to make them a copy.
On one occasion, I was offered to plug directly into the sound board! The recording sounded superb and got me to thinking about maybe using one on a regular basis.
Enjoy the holiday.
Norman |
Thanks for the link to Gordon Audio. Makes for good reading with my
morning coffee. This is a much more elaborate way of recording live. I
have a small Nakamichi microphone preamp, and a small CRATE 6 channel
board was well which allows me to alter frequency etc. What I have
really been enjoying are two Nuemans KM184's straight to the machine.
Excellent results.
I recently seen someone recording with a
couple of older Sony's that allowed you to alter the microphone pattern.
I am very interested in experimenting with this, since the Nuemans are
cardioid only.
Norman Indeed a pleasure, Norman. :-) My ideal analog recording chain, at this juncture, are two Schoeps mics through the Gordon mic pre into a Studer. It seems you've experienced this recording chain with two fine KM184's into your analog(?) recorder. ;-) Like you, I am encouraged by the sonic results. I just need a terrific venue and musicians, so I can practice my mic'ing technique! Haha :-) Happy Holidays and New Year!! -Sam |
Sam, I hate to ask but is there a huge difference with the half inch tape? Are you running it at 30ips? If I were recording "dense" acoustic music, I would try 1/2", half-track, at 30 in/s (haven’t had such an opportunity as of yet). I have some 1/2", pre-recorded, 30 in/s tape, on 14" reels that I haven’t listened to, yet. I know I have a 14" take-up reel...somewhere! :-) |
Sam,
Thanks for the link to Gordon Audio. Makes for good reading with my morning coffee. This is a much more elaborate way of recording live. I have a small Nakamichi microphone preamp, and a small CRATE 6 channel board was well which allows me to alter frequency etc. What I have really been enjoying are two Nuemans KM184's straight to the machine. Excellent results.
I recently seen someone recording with a couple of older Sony's that allowed you to alter the microphone pattern. I am very interested in experimenting with this, since the Nuemans are cardioid only.
Norman |
I would probably have no other place but kitchen to put such a machine in and run the cables to the living room, which would be no problem. This is not at all silly, this is striving for the best. I wish more people were like that. |
inna,
I was thinking the same thought, but now I am wondering. When I last worked in a studio they were using two inch tape for 24 tracks at 30ips and then mixing the masters down to half track quater inch tape at 15ips.
I would imagine that if you were recording live to half track half inch there would certainly be an advantage. It's silly, I don't even know where I would put another machine, but I can't help thinking about it. =)
N
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Half inch two track at 30ips must be spectacular, depending on the recording of course. This certainly should make vinyl obsolete. |
c1ferrari,
Sam, I hate to ask but is there a huge difference with the half inch tape? Are you running it at 30ips?
N |
alectiong,
Tapes of my LP's sound like the LPs. I don't think they sound better, but I have heard that before and I don't believe there would be a different unless someone is under biasing the tape and exaggerating the highs.
N |
Thank you Norman. I will look around.
I read somewhere that tapes of LPs sound better than LPs. I wonder how that's possible, for the tape to sound better than the original? |
Anyone using 1/2" machine for home listening?
Yes, I have a 1/2" head stack and listen to 1/2" tape. :-) |
Hi Norman, I've only recorded direct-to-2 track at home (a very live environment) and at a lodge...another challenging acoustic space. Cardioid capsules were used in either instance...haven't deployed the omnis, yet. I'm still learning mic technique and placement! ;-) Here's a link to Gordon Audio: http://gordonaudio.com/ Sam |
alectiong,
The UHA machines are fantastic especially if they are in your budget. You can however find well maintained Otari's, Tascams, Pioneers, Studers, for much less. All of these machines will have the needed IEC eq profile, high speed and half track configuration needed to play back master tape copies. Some can be had for under $1000.00. Even with servicing, your total would be less then $2000.00 This will give you a good taste. From there, the skies the limit. Be prepared, as I promise you've never heard anything like a master tape copies.
But there is more, tape your favorite songs from albums you enjoy, get a couple of quality mics and begin making your own masters! Have a few favorite CD's? Tape them, somehow they become totally listenable without fatigue. I love analog tape and half track reel to reel is outrageously good!
Enjoy
Norman
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I don't have experience with R2R, or expertise to repair vintage ones. Reading positive reviews about its sound has me very intrigued, and wondering whether to join the club, and how.
There are good reviews about the UHA decks, heavily modded from Tascam and good to go. Are the UHA decks a hassle free way to enjoy R2R? |
Norman and Livin_262002
Thanks. The guru of Sony APR-5000 series machines is Richard Hess. There is a yahoo users group run by Richard, which has all the manuals etc uploaded. The APR-5000 series are really good and very good value compared to the equivalent Studers (it's as good as an A80). Spares are an issue, but it is built like a battleship. You can still get new heads or just relap the existing ones, if they're not too worn. they come up pretty cheap, esp in the USA.
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You guys should check out abcrecords.com for 15ips tape. China site but all good. |
Agree the Sony APR series machines are cool looking. One had come up for sale locally for $600 I almost pulled the trigger on it but again virtually non existent spares and the sheer size of the unit discouraged me. Nevertheless awesome machine. |
topoxforddoc,
The Sony looks intoxicating! I haven't that type of budget or room! But what fun?
N. |
Livin_262002
Thanks for the PR99 update. I currently have my Pioneer RT-1050 calibrated for +6 tapes. That is a bit surprising for me, but maybe not if the machines were basically used for radio hot bias isn't an issue.
N. |
Since getting into R2R again, I find that I hardly play my turntable (Platine Verdier, GT Audio Battery PSU, Schroeder Model 2/Allaerts MC1B & Hadcock 228/Decca FFSS MkIV). I have 3 R2R decks, all 2 track and 15 IPS capable - Sony APR-5002, Studer A807/II and a High Speed Revox G36. They are all calibrated for BASF/Emtec/RMGi/Pyral 911SM and LPR35. Here’s a link to my system playing a distribution master of Jesus and Mary Chain - Psychocandy. http://vid1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj516/topoxforddoc/JAMC%20Tape%20low%20res.mp4 |
Norman,
PR99 is a very versatile unit though it was marketed mainly to radio stations. It was used more as a playback unit rather than for recording. When I had mine I really liked it. The CCIR mod to PR99 is not a complex one I had planned on changing EQ on mine before I sold it. Also the PR99 had trouble calibrating for a +6 tape like the SM911 and Quantegy 456 the bias oscillators on it didn't put out enough current. That was the main reason I sold mine. That said it could be modded to bias those tapes and CCIR eq. |
cerrot,
Spent the morning coffee in hand looking at Arian's website. I would love to hear one of his ATR10's. I just did a quick check of the ReVox PR99, and it seems that they are pretty reasonable. Even if you had to have a total service on one, it would come in less than $4500.00. Something to consider. When I bought my B77 back in 1979, I don't think the PR99 was available, at least I hadn't heard of it. I would have certainly opted for that since it has additional features that I would use. (most of which are already present in the Pioneer RT-1050). I also wish that ReVox had plug in head assemblies like the Pioneer. That is my most used feature of that machine. You can swap out a head-stack in 4mins time.
I would be interested in seeing what Arian would charge to mod my ReVox, since it sits on a shelf most of the time.
Thanks so much for the information!
Norman |
The Revox was purchased here on Agon and was modded by Arian Jansen (you can google to se ewhat he does with his mods but basically changes to IEC (for 15ips; 7 1/2 is NAB). the preamp is redone a bit and the record circuit/mute circuit are all taken out. The recording circuits are also removed in order to provide the best playing possible. The Opus 3 was amazing (AMAZING) and I just tried an ABC Records 15ips (China) and it was SWEET. I have 2 tape projects in tansit and hope to have Santa deliver them by Christmas.
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I get the feeling that, generally speaking, people who are tape heads sound different than vinyl heads. Of course, there are those who are both. Truer to the roots you know. Long live the tape! |
Anyone using 1/2" machine for home listening? |
Cerrot,
Ok, now I have to research Opus. Tape Project tapes are the only ones I've tried. I see that United Audio has quite a good list of companies offering master copies.
Norman |
Sam,
What type of venues do you record live? Do you find that you are consistently using a specific mic polar patterns, or do they differ each time? I'm not familiar with the Gordon. Is it similar to a small mixing console?
Norman |
A Tascam 32 or BR-20 are great machines. Even after servicing they are very inexpensive. Also, the Studer A807. If I can get an A807 in a 'portable' format, I should give it serious consideration. I'll have to read up on the specs. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone who is competent with A807 service. :-( |
I ordered an Opus 3 tape and listened to 15ips 2 track IEC for the first time on my system and was totally floored. Cerrot -- the Opus 3 label is one of my favorites for analog reel material! I think I know the feeling you're describing. :-) |
Hi Norman,
Effusive apologies for the tardy reply! I have a matched pair of Schoeps mics with matched capsules of various polar patterns and using a Gordon mic amp.
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