What source could be better than “Mr Firebaugh”?
But I use single weight, synthetic, nondetergent motor oil for all my TTs. I have never owned a WT TT.
recommended oil for well tempered spindle cup
have classic well tempered TT and arm from the 90's, upgraded to black arm and platter.
can someone give some insight for the contradiction i read in several forums:
"The type of oil can be specific to a turntable design, but in general, motor oil is not a good choice.
Motor oil is usually multigrade and contains all sorts of additives. This bad. Light multi=purpose or sewing machine oil is a bit to thin. I use a monograde oil sold for air compressors at about SAE 20 or 30. Quite cheap. Synthetic is better than mineral oil if you can find some. I am just using mineral oil as sold at Tradetools for about $10 a litre bottle."
on the other hand:
“...any synthetic motor oil of any brand within a viscosity range of 5W-50 is acceptable.”
and this:
"For the spindle, he said Mr. Firebaugh, the designer, has updated the fluid to be synthetic motor oil, 5w20 or 5w30, whichever is cheaper. he said viscosity is not that important."
31 responses Add your response
like one of those? |
Contradictions (opinions)? Whenever more than one human is involved, in any given scenario.... Anyway: Mobile 1, full synthetic, 0W-20 has been working great in my VPI's spindle/bearing, for years now. Couldn’t say for certain, about your WT. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Mobil-1-Mobil-1-Synthetic-0W20-Dex-Os-Motor-Oil-32-oz/1002654136 |
I owned a WTRP and my experience was that the stretchier the belt the heavier weight oil was optimal. When I had my original stiff belt or the mostly OEM Stanalog replacements, the then recommended 50W motor oil worked great. When George went out of business, only stretchier belts were available and 90W gear oil made them tolerable. When I was finally patient enough to make a proper string drive, then 5W mineral oil helped the string not to slip but didn't raise the bearing noise level. Not sure of the current state of belt availability for WT tables, so YMMV. If Bill has OEM belts as replacements, then you should definitely follow his oil recommendation. David |
I am sure your direct experience is more cogent than my guesswork, but one might think that with a stretchy belt, higher viscosity would engender more belt stretching which might lead to more speed irregularity. Just thinking out loud. Anyway, my bottom line contention is it doesn't make much difference what lubricant you use. If I recall my friend's WTRP, the "bearing" actually consisted of some white protrusions in the well, maybe one or two rounded hemispherical white plastic mounds, which contacted the spindle when the belt pulled the platter toward the motor. Very unconventional to begin with. |
April Fools! All of you. I use Virgin Olive Oil. Just a drop so there is only a thin film of lubricant, more than a drop creates resistance. I also have taken the cup and the spindle to a triboligist and had a molybdenum coating treatment so that the rod end bearing can be run dry when at my home in the high desert in Oregon. |
My Linn Sondek LP12 bearing housing is partially filled with 0W20 full synthetic . The spindle platter assembly is engaged into the housing ,displacing some of the oil-To avoid a mess wrap some tissues around the housing. This procedure guarantees oil in the microscopic annulus , between the bearing housing and the spindle. |
And how often should you change the oil? I do it on my Simon Yorke S10 about every two years. After that time there is a bit less left in there. It must evaporate a bit and will therefore thicken, perhaps slowing the table fractionally or introducing more rumble. I use the oil Simon supplied. Dunno what it is. But I guess you need a different grade oil when running at 45rpm than at 33. Very troublesome if you run 78s as well. |
I forget how I found it when researching for lube for my Reel to Reel Tape machines, this stuff is the unreal deal Liquid Bearings "Liquid Bearings is a custom blend of the highest quality 100%-synthetic components currently available in the world. It is formulated using a process that re-arranges the structure so all the molecules are uniform in size, shape, and weight, an ideal phenomenon that does not occur in nature." that's pretty close to audiophile speak isn't it?
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Liquid Bearings is the exact oil I used on my Project table. A pure, light weight, full synthetic oil is the way to go. You don't need all the additives that a high temp combustion engine requires. And you don't want a natural oil that will oxidize over time. Liquid bearings also serves as a great clock oil. |
Since the WT spindle bearing is continuously self lubricating, Bill Firebaugh's statement that viscosity within the range given is non-critical can be taken at face value. Every intant the platter is spinning, the delrin contact bearings are seeing fresh lubricant...it's the genius of the design. No heat buildup, no viscosity breakdown, no chatter. Had mine since 1989...changed the spindle oil once. |
The problem with engine oils is that they are designed to absorb moisture, releasing it later when the engine comes up to temperature. I used to smear engine oil on my machine tools as a teenager out in my parents unheated garage to protect them from rusting during the spring and fall because the rapid temp changes would sometimes cause the cold iron to "sweat". The clear oil film would turn a milky white/brown color! It was loaded with moisture and cause corrosion, the opposite of what I was trying to do. Later found that a good coating of straight oil did not promote this kind of action. So no engine oils in any of my turntable spindles.
BillWojo |
So Bill, are you saying NOT to use a single weight, low viscosity, nondetergent, synthetic motor oil, which could also be called an "engine oil"? Sounds like you used more ordinary engine oil (likely to be multiviscosity and with additives including detergent) to coat your tools when you were a lad. And in any case, none of us is keeping his TT in an unheated garage over the winter. |
I have been using "Dritz" clean and clear sewing machine oil for years on both my vintage and newer TT. It is made in USA and comes in a see-through 4 oz bottle with a flexable 6 inch telescopic zoom spout with a red tip that secures the spout tightly. It is light and thin, not heavy and silky smooth. Can be found at Joann's fabric stores. UPC: 0 72879 29702 7. Happy trails. |
Don’t have much to add except that the WTT classic was my first high end turntable in the late 80’s when I discovered vinyl sounded better than digital of that era. I did several tweeks including black platter, arm damping wrap, and even wiring tonearm externally. I could never get an exacting cartridge alignment due to the tonearm’s pivot type. I also added Goldmund cones underneath which really helped the sound. I sold the table on Craigslist to a young guy and then a few years ago just browsed craigslist and saw my Frankensteined table for sale, including the blue tac I used to damp the arm fluid cup. |